What to do for the best....could you leave?

[MuthaHubbard]

Have been with h for nearly 15 years and unhappily married for the last 2. We have two dc.

Have tried to discuss with him the fact that I am very unhappy, we don't talk, communicate, have any intimacy and I have tried to rectify this for quite some time but after constant jokes and knockbacks I admit I gave up trying. I enter a room, he leaves and vice versa. I am so unhappy that I even told him that I was prepared to leave, even if that meant the kids staying with him. He stated that no-one had to leave and I should be happy that I wake up with the kids and they are happy and has since put his head back in the sand. This may be true, and it would break my heart to leave them, but I am just so very lonely and unhappy.

Wrongly I started getting close to a male friend. Obviously he provided everything I wasn't getting at home and we have, again wrongly, fallen in love with each other. We've talked and we are going to decide what to do for the best after xmas, if there is a 'best' in this situation. All I know is that I've never been in love like this before.

I know I've been incredibily selfish. But on the other hand the thought of hurting my kids breaks my heart. But yet again, a small part of me thinks that I should be allowed a little bit of happiness and I don't want them to think that the relationship I have with their dad, cold, unloving and unfeeling, is how an adult relationship should be. The last thing in the word I want is to hurt anyone, but I know that isn't realistic anymore.

Not sure what I'm asking really. I know that your responses may be harsh, fair play.

Is couples counselling an option? Does your 'D'H seem to be actually happy? Or is he maybe afraid to deal with the problems, for fear doing that may make things worse?

The relationship with your friend is unlikely to go the distance, and you should give it up, I'm afraid. There's nothing wrong with leaving your husband, but leaving for someone else is a bad idea.

not harsh from me.

I was in a relationship like that and in the end he was sleeping on the sofa and paying me 'rent' otherwise no communication at all and like you he would leave the room when I came in etc. After nearly 2 years of that I met someone else and he moved out.

There is no reason why you should have to lose your children, you're perfectly entitled to stay in your home with them.

Hope that helps and I wish you the best for the future

Your H sounds exactly like mine. What is it with men? do they go to classes "in how to treat a woman like sh1t" or something? I totally dont blame you for starting an affair with the first person to throw a crumb of affection your way.
Wish I could advise. Can only wish you the very best of luck.

Thanks for your responses.

On the odd time we've spoken, he's said that there is no way he would ever leave his children and to be fair he is a good father.

If I had a spare room I would have moved into it by now and have spent many nights in one of the dc beds or on the sofa.

DH will not admit that he's not happy. I said that he can't be happy in this situation and he made a non-commital type noise. We have 'joked' that we are like lodgers, dh said that at least if I was a lodger, I would pay him rent.

Don't think counselling is an option. I think we are too far gone now and he is very old fashioned and when I've asked him to talk it over with someone else, he's stated he doesn't need to.

I know we will split, with or without my friend's influence, it's just a matter of when and how. I cried my heart on on new years eve last yesr as I was so unhappy and will probably do the same this year but with my mind made up that next year things will be sorted, one way or another.

It sounds as though you need to know that you have a new relationship to go to before you screw up the courage to leave. This is quite understandable and I'm sure a lot of people do the same thing, but as NQC says it's probably not a good idea in the long run. Could you try to analyse how you (meaning 'you' singular) have got into this position - possibly with the aid of a Relate bod? Otherwise you run the risk of leaving but falling back into the same pattern in a new relationship. In an ideal world, you would finish your relationship with the new guy (if he really is the one for you then you can always get back together later on - he should understand that this is not a healthy position for either of you), get some counselling and leave (if that is still what you want) from a position of strength.

I do know that that is much easier to say than to do, though.

FWIW I agree with you that the sort of relationship you describe with your DH does not provide a good emotional background for children.

SP - thanks, know it's not nice but good to know I'm not the only one.

I know that I can't 'make' him leave so suppose I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

My name is not on the mortgage, will this affect things. Take it I can't just change the locks whilst he's at work!! Know I really need to seek legal advice.

You're absolutely right that you deserve some happiness and love. It seems to me that you've tried very hard with your DH and he just hasn't.
However...please don't leave to be with the new man from the off. Leave, but spend a good few months or a year on your own (with the kids or with joint custody - it worked very well for me with my older kids in a similar situation - or whatever you work out), but in your own place, with your own rules. That will give you the space and objectivity to see whether the relationship with the new man will work. Take your time over this. I too wish you luck.

i recently split from my partner of 14 years in similar circumstances....neither of us could make each other happy because the love just wasn't there anymore.
i made the break before there was anyone else involved, i am moving out of our 'home' in two weeks into my own place.....i agree with other posters that if you leave (and it sounds that like me, you've made your mind up on that)you need to do it solo....not going straight into another relationship.
it's a scary thought being on my own...but i know i have to be my own person before i can even think of looking for someone to share my life with.......
i'll be thinking of you and will check back here........

Thanks again guys. Your support, advice and your own experiences are appreciated. I sort of made my mind up earlier this year that I was going to leave and it was just a matter of timing, of course before I knew it half a year had past! When I made this decision I did feel a lot better for it and there was nobody else involved.

I am taking on board the advice re doing this by myself without the complications of my friend. I think it would be better for all of us when we split for me to spend time on my own for a while. And if it's meant to be with him, then it will be.

Thanks again, am a new poster and amazed at your support

Okay - so two weeks ago I discovered, via an answerphone message, that he is leaving tomorrow for a two week holiday back home (cape town). He never mentioned this to me at all. When I asked him about it and whether it was a return ticket, he said 'unfortunately for me, yes'.

After discussing things with my mum (who recommended I just change the locks!!), I thought this would be an ideal opportunity for us to have a chat and then him think about things whilst he was away and let him know that I would be seeking legal advice.

I have even knocked things on the head with my friend to get things sorted in my head and in RL.

Okay, so have been building up to speaking to him for the last few hours - going over in my head what I want to say without losing it or resorting to anything nasty.

This is how the conversation went:

Me - You off to bed now?

Him - Yes

Me - Oh, I wanted a chat with you now the kids are in bed.

Him - Chat about what?

Me - About me and you....

Him - What about me and you? (grins in sarcastic manner - if that's possible)

Me - About the way things are.

Him - But I am going away tomorrow.

Me - I know, that's why I wanted to talk now so you can think about things whilst you are away.

Him - But I am going away. You can think about things as well. Will see you when I get back.

He then goes upstairs to bed.

The End.

Feck - I know I am rubbish at this sort of stuff but I really wanted to discuss this and he's just grinned innately (sp?) at me and gone to bed.

I really wanted to say that I think our relationship has come to and end and I will be seeking legal advice whilst he's gone but I didn't just want to blurt it out.

As usual he looks at me as though I am stupid for even attempting to raise the issue or any issue re 'our relationship', laughs, makes me feel a twut that I want to be happy and then sticks his head back in the sand.

Maybe I could write it all down and give it to him when he leaves? Or maybe he would ignore that too?

If it wasn't for the kids I would just feck off and leave him to it. I seriously can't do this anymore. I can't just leave the kids but can't carry on in limbo.

If he's not going to listen to you and you need him to let him know before long - then writing a letter to him is a good idea imo

Btw, well done for having the strength to do this without going straight into a relationship with your friend.

Blimey, well done. Is it possible that he guessed what you were going to say and didn't want to hear you say the words?

Yes, I think writing it down is a good idea. Mark the envelope 'Urgent' and put it somewhere where he can't claim to have not seen it.

Thanks.

Wonk - never thought of that re the not wanting to hear the words, but could well be very true.

Have written a letter, explaining that our relationship has come to a natural end and that I am going to seek legal advice with a view to separation/divorce and want him to use the time away to think about how things are going to be. Is quite simple and straight to the point I think.

If I wasn't so nice, I would have just put 'don't come back, will be changing the locks anyway'. But I am too nice - the sort of person that doesn't like to hurt others, told him we need to discuss our separation when he returns and child custody/living arrangements. At least then he can't say I just kicked him out, he has the opportunity to think about things whilst away and for us to discuss this and try and sort as amicably as possible when he gets back.

Then if he doesn't, I'll change locks whilst he's at work!!!

Now you need to get the ball rolling, find out what you are entitled to, where you will stand concerning the house, mortgage, childcare. Get all the ammo you need.
Also get the childrens passports and put them in a safety deposit box, 'just in case' some of the threads on here make you think.

Well I wrote letter.

It basically said that I think our relationship has come to a natural end. Neither of us are happy and we both deserve to be. I also put that I wanted to chat to him to let him know that I will be seeking legal advice whilst he's away with regards to separation/divorce. And asking that he thinks about how we are going to arrange things when he returns, as in child care and living arrangements.

I also re-iterated that we both deserve to be happy and above all else, the kids are the most important thing to both of us. I also asked that when he phones maybe we could have talk about it.

I put this in his suitcase.

He left this morning and he's just rung me from the train station as he's changing trains.

He said he's read my letter. I asked him what he thought about what I'd said. He said he's a bit up in the air and would I please not change the locks whilst he's away. I said I wouldn't. He said he wants me to be happy, he does love me but doesn't want me to be unhappy. He's written me a letter and is hoping to post it before he flies.

As soon as I put the phone down I burst into tears. Am I sat here crying because I realise this is now the beginning of the end? I hate hurting people and I realise that actually I am going to have to? I know it's going to get hard before it gets better and I do love him, but am not in love with him anymore?

Am I just a stupid cow who doesn't know what to think or what she wants? All I know is that I am very unhappy in this relationship and deep down I know this is the right thing to do.

Oh you poor thing. Remember though that it is his fault things have got to this point. He could have listened to you earlier, gone to counselling, generally made more of an effort.
Its gone too far now - and you are right, you deserve to be happy.
Well done for doing the right thing with your 'friend'. Maybe when this is all over things can start again, but now you can hold your head up high and know that you didn't leave your marriage for someone else and that you did your best to work on it.
Hope you'll be happy in 2008

I think you'd be odd if you weren't upset - this is a longterm relationship that's resulted in children. Of course it's going to be traumatic. However, I do think it sounds as though you've done the right thing, for everyone concerned - and, if it's any consolation, you've been braver than a lot of people who continue to muddle along in relationships that make them miserable. Good for you. Make sure that you do get some proper legal advice - CAB is always a good place to start. If you can keep things amicable, you might find that in the long run your relationship with your ex will actually improve once you don't have to live with each other any more.

Thank you ginnedupudding.

And you too wonk - you speak a lot of sense and it's good to know that it's 'normal' to feel this way.

I actually feel better having had a good cry. And when I think about it, my feelings haven't changed.

This is the hardest decision I've ever had to make, but I am hoping things can stay amicable. When my db split with his dw, they kept things friendly and he says they get on better now than they ever did when they were married.

Fingers crossed!!!

{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}} Its all I can say. Take each day as it comes.

Well he's been away for a week now.

Letter never arrived.

He's phoned 3 times now and just asked how the kids are and to speak to them. Not really spoken to me ("hi, everyone alright, are the kids there" or "will phone again tuesday") and no mention of letter or to ask if i've been to solicitor yet. His curt attitude with me over phone just makes me more determined in a way.

Am really enjoying being on my own with the dc. Obviously know that being a single parent is incredibly hard but just feel so much better without him being here iyswim.

DC both playing up a little today and a bit moany. Both said they are missing their dad, which makes me feel bad as a) i'm not missing him in the slightest and b) i'm going to cause them more upset when we split.

I know deep down this is going to be hard, but the right decision.

I'm off to the solicitors tomorrow.

What sort of grounds would be classed as unreasonable behaviour for divorce?

Have 3 good ones - lack of communication, lack of sexual contact and borrowing money without my knowledge.

Have two naff-ish ones - his snoring often leads to me spending the night on the sofa - a bit of a crap one but lack of sleep/interupted sleep gets you down after a while. This a valid one or not?

Also during summer months he spends a huge amount of his time at his allotment. Recently he has also started to go to auctions and coming home with a load of tat and rubbish.

The last two are really bad ones but not sure what else to come up with as the first three really seem to outweigh the others iyswim?

Just don't want to look like a muppet at the solicitors!

Oh, and what sort of paperwork do I need to take with me?

Sorry, in times of stress my mind tends to go either super organised or blank, and it's obviously the latter at the mo.

Me and my partner had been together 7 years and our relationship died. He walked out on me new years day just gone to be with another woman whoom he now lives with. We have a 5 year old boy.

It's only been a week and it is hard but my little boy seems to be happier, my X is happier and I'm getting there, it's just hard to let go. But my advice would be if your not happy and he refuses to accept things have gone wrong you need to make a stand and go. it happened to me but I'm slowly realising it's probably for the best. Like you said the kids are the most important they deserve happy surroundings.

Good luck and take care.

Well he's back.

We've hardly spoken since his return. I went to a friends party last night and we spoke quickly as I was getting ready to leave.

He asked me when we were going to have a talk and I said I'd like to meet him for lunch on Monday.

He asked me directly if I was seeing anybody else, to which I said no. He said that if he found out anyone else was involved I would be in trouble as I'd never seen him mad and he would get very mad and I wouldn't want to see him like that and what he would do.

I was going to tell him that I had been, but from the look on his face and the way he was speaking, I was 99% sure he would have tw@ted me.

He said that we had to sort this out, that he would not sign any divorce papers. I said that I'd spoken to the solicitor and there was ways of getting around that and that the only option I would have in divorce would be unreasonable behaviour. To which he spouted that he didn't accept that, he was in no way unreasonable and what was he being unreasonable about. I said that the fact that he doesn't speak to me is unreasonable enough (this was after I spent the night before writing a nearly two page list of unreasonable behaviour). I explained to him this was the only option, unless we went with the separation option.

He said he wouldn't leave his kids and would never move out. He would rather burn the house down that leave it. That he didn't want to be a part-time dad and only see them once every few weeks and different men coming in and out of the house every week.

Choosing to ignore the last remark, I said I didn't want it to be like that, that ideally we would be able to work something out in that we got to see the kids equally. I also said that I'd hoped we would be able to work things out as amicably as possible.

He said he didn't want the kids to go through what he and I did as children (both are parents are divorced). I said that at the moment they were my main concern, but that things hadn't changed.

I have the feeling that he is going to make things extremely difficult for me and that he is wanting to go down the separation route, but that for a large part of this we are going to have to live together. I have a feeling that he would contest the unreasonable behaviour and that would mean we would end up having to go to court. I think he is trying to get me to feel so unhappy and bad that I will be the one to leave without the children and then I will be the one to blame.

God I am so and at the same time.

Roll on lunch tomorrow.....

My goodness, that conversation sounds almost exactly what my STBXH said when he realised I was serious about divorcing him. He can't see that he's ever been unreasonable and is convinced that I must be leaving him so I can sleep around. He too would never leave as it was HIS house and HIS children, and if I didn't like it I could push off and live with my (non-existent) "fancy man".

The solicitor told me that in his experience most men posture like that at the start, but in 90% of cases by the time papers start coming in with court stamps on them the bluster goes out of them. This indeed was how it turned out. The solicitor was also very helpful in turning my long, rambling list of complaints into a few bullet points to go on the petition. It's been dragging on for a year now and we're still living in the same house, which is a total pain, but at least the end is in sight.

Btw my STBXH is also originally from South Africa, and has a tendency to fill the house with old tat. Could he be your H's long-lost twin?