Os this a red flag or just cultural?

[ToastedFrog]

I am a little confused about a man I have met from OLD. Just a coupe of dates. He seems like a nice hardworking guy. His family background is from the middle east but he is born and raised in europe. I find him quite westernised and he has never even lived in the middle east (and those middle eastern people I know are actually quite similar to us culturally anyway).

BUT he is late 40s never married no kids and really seems really too close with his family who live in another country. He speaks to his parents every single day. He spends most if not all of his holidays with his parents (who are old). He mentioned they have done a lot for him so he needs to take care of them. He mentioned he had had marriage opportunities hadn’t met anyone suitable, which sounded odd.

Is this a red flag or just cultural? Is it normal to be so close to parents for a guy who is almost 50? I like him but don’t want to be an afterthought compared to his family.

I'd be much more put off by a lie about activities than a lie about weight/height/age

Poor guy, so being close to your parents and unmarried over 40 is a red flag?

@RunningFromInsanity nothing like that at all. I have friends who are never married, are in their 40s and are close to their families. However the don’t go visit their families for a month and/or spend all their annual leave with their parents and speak to them every single day. They have independent lives and roots. It’s not the one thing but the combination. That’s the reason I started this thread.

It's a cultural thing. You can still be born here but brought up with family culture. Fine to talk to parents and catch up every day, it's respectful. Also not unusual not to be married. Most likely they've tried to set him up but he's not interested or wasn't suited. Know plenty of women's and men not marrying as they are happy with life and not found that extraordinary person. He sounds westernised and considerate. Absolutely not seeing parents that long you'd want to visit. Wouldn't go for anything less than 3 weeks as it's not just visiting them but all the extended family, everyone wants to entertain and have dinners...never long enough.

If he is in an enmeshed family situation and a mama’s boy nope. That’s why I am trying to determine if this is a red flag.

Oh and he cannot really cook. Am I seeing red flags everywhere? confused

I think he is in an enmeshed family situation, but the reason for that is cultural. I don't think the reason for his ways is important though. I think it is what you are willing to put up with. He may seem very westernised to you, but he will still have the traditions and ways of living that he was brought up with.

Are you sure he doesn’t have a wife/family at home?

This happened to a woman I know when her apparent DP died and she found herself completely excluded from the funeral arrangements . She basically didn’t exist as far as his family/community were concerned.

I don’t think it’s objectively a red flag, but it might be one FOR YOU - and that’s perfectly valid.

I am extremely close to my parents and committed to caring for them - in fact I have just changed jobs to be closer to them. They and my daughter are the priority for me at this point in my life, and I made that clear to my boyfriend when I met him. He’s cool with that (I think) but I totally respect that lots of men wouldn’t be…..

The whole concept of the couple as a unit apart from the family may not exist in the same way. You might be expected to join a family setup, not expected to make a new way of life for the man apart from that.

Gay.

About the 'marriage opportunities ' phrase, It is really an example of someone who is using 2 or 3 different languages and cultural assumptions to communicate. He probably has had a fair few offers of introductions to suitable women by family and friends even if none of them are terribly religious as it is a cultural assumption that he would want to be married. So he is translating the words and cultural context in a neutral way that sounds a bit strangeto you in the context of on line dating. I would have noticed the slight possible fib as well but are you sure you were talking about the same day? Also he could have done both, a bit of DIY and then met friends. On the other hand he was probably nervous and did not want to seem like a no mates just sitting at home and it's easier to give an expected response when just meeting someone for the first time rather than be too revealing.

Have you actually tried discussing yoour concerns with him? He is probably well aware of being different from the average dater and you could raise it without being rude or intrusive as an interesting cultural comparison. For example how did his brothers or sisters meet their partners? Then his willingness to discuss or explain woud be more revealing of his character.

OP I could have written your post except my DP used to lie about a lot of this stuff to hide his cheating bullshit

Op, based on my life experiences my first thought would be - what’s wrong with him, why has he never been married.

It would actually be the first question any of my multicultural/cross cultural extended family and friends would also ask.

The phoning his parents and spending holidays with them wouldn’t raise red flags but never having been married at his age would.

@cateycloggs see it’s tough to tell, it was the same day and I picked up on it (I havr a very good memory), but decided to not say anything in case I was mistaken or ot was the same day. It was such a small thing and frankly I wouldn’t have picked up on it if I didn’t like him so much

Re bringing up my concerns, no. I feel it’s too early. I just want to get to know him without putting him on his guard. We have been speaking and texting almost every day for the past five weeks but this month long trip has put a spanner in the works as I like to spend more time with him without making a decision yet. He says it takes time for him to open up and feel comfortable woth people so I want him to naturally tell me stuff. However I just can’t shake the feeling that something is ever so slightly off.

@Cocopogo Exactly what I am afraid of. I have become so paranoid and cynical after many bad experiences on OLD. I hope I am not dating your ex (last name starts with A)?

@MaBroon21 many people don’t meet the right person or just live with someone without getting married. I know a few perfectly decent and normal people like that. However I feel they most do build roots and lives that don’t revolve around their original family.

@Nandakanda

Are you sure he doesn’t have a wife/family at home?

This happened to a woman I know when her apparent DP died and she found herself completely excluded from the funeral arrangements . She basically didn’t exist as far as his family/community were concerned.

My first thought too. I’d put money on him having a wife and children in this other country.

It sounds as though there's probably a big cultural element. I knew someone from the Gulf and she said that it was taken for granted that her widowed mother would choose which adult child she wanted to live with in old age, though it would probably be the oldest son. She would never live alone. And all unmarried children and one of her married children (the oldest son with his family) lived with their mum.

Can’t cook at 40 is a deal breaker. I have zero interest in sitting a 40 year old man down and going things are going great but we can’t go any further in this relationship unless you can put a decent meal on the table. And he’s obviously not going to suddenly have this revelation himself. Plus what other basic life does he not do?

Sounds a bit like my DH. Luckily his family live in the U.K. and we don’t have to spend all of our holidays with them, but yes to the strong attachment, continuous phone calls, and overwhelming sense of duty. We have been together a long time, but as his parents age I’m not sure what the future holds. Certainly there will be pressure to help care for them, and I have concerns and reservations that the expectation will be on me. There is a sense of duty that I just don’t feel to my parents.

I am guessing from your description of them being culturally Muslim but not religious that they might be Persian. If so it’s not necessarily the case that he would have had an arranged marriage. Sometimes it’s just the case that a favourable match didn’t happen.

I find it really strange that its a red flag that a son has a duty to his parents, isn't that a good thing that they are close and he takes responsibility for them? That is an expectation in many cultures, especially countries (most of the world!) that doesn't have as much of a state welfare system as the UK does. If there's an expectation of providing care that's different, but it seems to suggest he takes his responsibilities seriously (not always a given in 40 something single men)
I think the not being married thing is a plus - it is unusual for a man with his cultural background not to have been married, but that seems like a good sign in terms of balancing western and non western expectations. It sounds like he was able to choose/turn down suggestions and that his parents accepted that. It is very common for people from the middle East to have some degree of arrangements in marriage but as a PP said, this is more about introductions and recommendations, it is very different to forced or coerced marriage. It sounds like he could have married if he wanted to but was able to say no.

Re the cooking, do you know if he can't cook at all, or is he saying he can't cook? If he's able to feed himself, or prepared to learn basics I wouldn't worry. If he's expecting you to cook for him that's different. But I'd check it's not an interpretation issue; does he mean he can't put freezer food in an oven, or does it mean he can't cook according to the standards that his family would perceive as a good cook?

I'm being cynical but if he's grown up here I'd be surprised if he had a wife and family in the middle east, and lived a single life here. That doesn't make sense financially or socially. Leaving a family 'back home' happens because it's not always possible for people who come here to work, to bring wife + children over, immigration rules being what they are. If he was born in Europe it is very likely he would have had 'opportunities' for marriage due to people in his extended network seeing British citizenship, schooling etc as an advantage, but that means having a family living here with him, not back home. Please note I don't mean to infer that our country is 'better'; middle Eastern countries often have a higher standard of living+ private education compared to the UK. But fluency in English is prized, as (was!) having an EU passport. So it would be unusual to be born here, have a marriage abroad and not a wife here when you'd have the right to go the spousal visa route, and have the children born here.

Alarm bells started ringing as soon as I read your post OP. My reaction is definitely coloured by my own experience.

My ex boyfriend was an Egyptian Muslim who’d lived in England for nine years when we met. He told me he came here to study and eventually applied for a visa and stayed. He had British citizenship. Had I known about immigration law at the time I would’ve realised this was BS. He was open minded and enjoyed the best of both worlds - he was respectful towards people with different beliefs and had friends from all over the world. He appeared to be genuine. My friends and family loved him. He talked about us getting married and having kids. He had us all fooled.

He used to visit his widowed mum in Cairo for a month every year - he was the eldest son and sent money back to her. He told me he was married once to an Egyptian woman when he was in his 20s but it didn’t work out. I met him when he was in his early 30s.

I used to get a vibe that something wasn’t quite right so I kept an eye on his Facebook - we weren’t friends on there but most of his posts were public. I had the shock of my life when I discovered photos of his engagement party which took place in Cairo a year into our relationship - his fiancée was his cousin’s daughter. He told me his mum had made him get engaged and he couldn’t get out of it.

Later on I discovered he’d been married more than once and was living with his English wife, who was twice his age, when he started seeing me. He came to England with her on a spousal visa. I think he divorced her before he got engaged.

He didn’t marry his cousin in the end (I had a chat with her and dropped him in it). He’s now married to someone else who trapped him by getting pregnant. He’s not happy.

Stories like mine are more common than you think. Be careful OP: trust, but verify.

I think that late 40s to your 35 is another issue. At the moment the gap matters the least, you are both adults with some years of experience and in good health. By the time you are 40 he will be mid-50s and for all everyone tells you there’s a huge difference. 50 & 65 even more so. I’d proceed with great care in your situation.

I do agree the op needs to be mindful of the possibility of being deceived but I am sure she is aware of that in general with online dating wherever the potential match is from. Of course the Internet and (usually) easier travel have increased the international possibilities but even so they have always been there. I also had a similar situation with an Egyptian man nearly 40 years age ( yeah I am that old ) who really wanted to go out with me even though he had an Egyptian girl friend who expected him to marry her. He used to urge me to go to work in Saudia Arabia to teach English after I graduated but I brought up the restrictive life for women. He said everyone got round that by obeying the rules in public and doing what they wished in private, he had an affair with a married woman himself. I don't think he ever understood why that wasn't sufficient recommendation for me. I never went to Saudi.

I also knew two girls who had a Pakistani father and English mother. They were married several years until one day the first wife tuned up on the door step. That caused long term problems for them. So it's been going on a long time.

But we have also heard of similar stories from British men having secret families etc. As I mentioned I has a similar relationship to the op some years ago, a bit long-distance as he lived in Europe but was a Muslim of North African background. On the one hand he did not practice, on the other his family, especially his mother were central to his life. In fact, I found that emotional bond difficult to grasp as my own mother died when I was a child and my family life was unhappy so I detached early. I could only understand it from a sociological point of view and frankly in the end was not interested despite being compatible in other ways.

All probably irrelevant to the op but goes to show there are levels and subleties to relationships between different cultures that are not necessarily deceptive. I mean I don't even fit into my own culture in many ways which is one reason I don't look for a relationship now.

Also I would have thought the cooking would be the least of your concerns as he has managed to survive to his 40s on boiled eggs or whatever.

His family will never know you exist and I strongly suspect he is already married and using Tinder for casual sex on the side. Run.

Regardless of whether or not these are red flags or cultural, it sounds like the two of you just aren't compatible, I would leave it!