Another reluctant ‘groom’

[Unlovedandinsecure]

Hi all,

Been with my partner for a long time, have children, he owns the house but I work full time. For a long time I didn’t think about marriage as was busy working and raising my children, so I was otherwise occupied! Then a few years ago I started thinking about our future and how we are not related so cannot make decisions for each other etc. I brought this up to DP and he said something along the lines of ‘I’ll do things at my own pace’.

We had a pretty rocky patch after that as I felt he had had enough time to know what he wanted but things improved and he made noises about marriage being a possibility. Today things have come to a head and I have told him our relationship is over as he had been deceitful - he has no intention of proposing but hasn’t had the decency to let me know!

I completely understand that some people don’t want marriage and that’s fine. What isn’t fine is not being honest and upfront about it.

I’m heartbroken and angry in equal measure as if I’d been told the truth from the outset I could have made a decision as to whether to stay or go. It baffles me how you can claim to love a person but intentionally hurt them.

I know these threads are ten a penny but just wanted some advice, even if it’s to tell me how stupid I have been!

Wait, now. I think he actually let you know every day that he didn't want to marry you when he didn't propose for twenty entire years?

NOW, you decide he's been leading you on? Did you really think he was "just waiting for the right time?" Come on, now. I don't even know what to say about that.

And you may have been busy raising kids and working for the first twelve years but those were also years that you continued living with him and having children with him, so you must have noticed then too, that you weren't married.

However, I would also be deeply hurt if my husband had not proposed to me. Maybe anyone would.

Is this just a thing that you do now and then? For some reason, it has that feel to it.

If you want to leave him though, do it. Maybe he doesn't deserve you.

If it's important to you, and he knows that, I'd be asking him what is it that he's 'not ready' for exactly ??

After 20yrs, if he still thinks there's 'something better' out there for him ?
Or that he's 'wary' of a financial 'commitment' ?
Maybe it's just some sort of 'vague' idea of a 'loss of freedom'?

And I'd also be explaining exactly why it's important to me too.

I get that the whole 'marriage' idea was shelved for years, but you are perfectly entitled to change your mind over 20yrs (who doesn't ?), but it's important to you now and that's what matters.

Have a real, in depth talk about what it is you both want from each other, now and in the future, then maybe you'll know what you need to do.

I think the marriage thing is a complete non-issue compared to the fact you are not on the mortgage!

Tell him you don't want to get married but you must be added to the mortgage. Then you can leave and take half the house with you.

I bet he won't do it though. He has financially shafted you op. You need to think about how you move on financially, rather than emotionally.

Wow @BigHeadBertha that woke me up faster than my coffee 😂. Quite harsh but I fear, also true. Nothing like a stern telling off to make you come to your senses.

When you say is it ‘something I do now and again’ do you mean mention I want to be married? If so, yes as I wanted to give him time to decide and let me know. When I get no response i mention it again. And again. Now it’s come to a head as I think being non-committal about what he wants is cruel. He shouldn’t expect me (or anyone) to wait around for an indefinite period while he makes his mind up.

@Ifimight I don’t want a proposal or anything other than a simple ceremony in a registry office. If he were to make a deal of a proposal at this point I would be so angry and upset. It’s not what I’m after.

I don’t think he has led you on, you didn’t want marriage either and went ahead with a house and children without it.
Leaving because he won’t comply with your wishes at least leaves him free to find someone who wants him for just him.
Would you really want to force someone into marriage? Hardly an ideal basis for one.

You have two choices here from a practical point of view. You can either wait around on the premise that you might get married and get the financial security you need or you can investigate whether you have any claim on the house which may be an alternative to the security issue. I can totally understand your frustration and disappointment but perhaps sort this out so that you are in the best position available for you as an individual. I would find it totally unfair if you have been paying your way for such a long period of time, have children with the guy and you have no claim on assets.

If you have been working full time and there is a paper trail regarding payment of the house you may be able to open some discussions on being put on the deeds to the house. How are your finances organised? Do you share accounts? Has he taken money off you towards the mortgage?

He shouldn’t expect me (or anyone) to wait around for an indefinite period while he makes his mind up

Sorry what? You've waited for 20 years! You've allowed this to happen!

Weird, if you other love him and he's a good dad to trash your future over an old fashioned church owned patriarchal custom.

Just ask him to put you on house deeds instead. Much more security for you.

If he's resistant to marriage but is committed in all other ways, can you achieve security in other ways?
Do you have wills? Joint finances? Put your name on the house?

@WaterBottle123

That’s really not true. If he dies and they are married she would be entitled to money from his pension, possibly a death in service payment. If they split and were married there would need to be a division or assets (including savings) and possible maintenance payments. Unmarried, in either of those instances, she gets nothing, even though she will still have children to feed and keep a roof over their heads. Marriage gives women (who have generally given up a lot of financial security due to maternity leave, working part time when they have small children etc) a lot more financial security.

Unfortunately for your own self you all too willingly handed over all your power and control to him a long time ago. The current situation is untenable for you and he will never marry you nor put you on any property deeds. I also hope you have not ever paid any of his mortgage. Presumably too your children have his surname rather than yours.

@Bancha

I know, I had a death bed wedding for this exact reason- we hadn't got our affairs in order and DH was terminal. The main reason we did it is so I could put him on DD2's birth certificate as I was pregnant.

But OP has time to sort all the paperwork out including pension and death in service, you don't need to be married to claim those, you just need to be named.

I think you are doing the right thing. How on earth can he not have shared finances with you after all this time and DC? What a self centred man. He has a plan. It's to keep it all for himself. He would be quite happy to leave you with no roof over your head should he change his mind about the relationship. I would be giving an ultimatum I think.

@WaterBottle123

I’m so sorry for your loss.

I stand corrected

@Bancha

Thank you. I do agree marriage replaces a lot of other paperwork but it doesn't have to be marriage that does this. In OP's case getting put on the house deeds seems more urgent and making sure they each have life insurance. Marrying DH made no difference to my finances as everything we owned was joint and I was named as his beneficiary on everything. But as he didn't have a will it meant his personal possessions automatically passed to me. This wasn't really a priority, although now I am proud owner of all his 'collections'. Men!

At least you’ve come to your senses now, imagine another 20 years time and you weren’t working full time, the relationship breaks down and you wouldn’t have a claim on a property, you could be homeless.
Now you can get a plan to secure your future.

On these threads it always the men that own the house solely in their name that day they are waiting for just the right moment to propose.

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position, with so little power. Well done on realising it now, rather than even later in your life or after his.

What are your circumstances other than the question of marriage? Have you both made wills in each other's favour? Do you have POA for each other? Is his estate likely to be above the threshold for inheritance tax (IHT) ?

What would be your position if he passed away? Start planning from that perspective. You have got this. Good luck.

What did he say when you ended it? What was his reaction to that?

@FinallyHere

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position, with so little power. Well done on realising it now, rather than even later in your life or after his.

What are your circumstances other than the question of marriage? Have you both made wills in each other's favour? Do you have POA for each other? Is his estate likely to be above the threshold for inheritance tax (IHT) ?

What would be your position if he passed away? Start planning from that perspective. You have got this. Good luck.

Thanks so much, that’s a very kind thing to say.

No, no will/POA but he did ask me if I wanted him to sort that. He’s now ignoring me as I’ve upset him with my demands 😲

How have you not got a will? As soon as you have children you should get a will sorted especially if you are not married.

Hi OP, I could have written your post.

When I met ex Dh he had a small property portfolio with his brother and dad. All the houses were put purposely in to ex name so mil or now ex sil couldn't get their hands on them in the event of a divorce. Apparently ex said he'd never get married.

Fast forward to meeting me. A year in we had an unplanned pregnancy and started our family off. We discussed marriage many times and he felt it was something he had to come to "on his steam'. I talked about going on the deeds of the house we were living in which was flat out now as his father and brother owned a share.

At this time I gave up work to do the child care as ex wanted to start his own business up. That was my biggest mistake although we literally couldn't afford payed childcare.

About 8 years in his DGM had been for a meal with ex and I went to meet them after. Whilst ex was playing with kids she mentioned that she had asked when we was going to get married and he told her he wasn't the marrying kind. This was said in front of his family. she told me not to worry as its only a bit of paper. I felt humiliated.

At home when every one had left I pulled him over it. I was upset and said all there things you have said on here. I felt cheated too. I had gave up a career I loved and was really good it.

He said it was a joke and that we should go get a engagement ring and plan a wedding. So we did. Much to the surprise of his DGM who actually brought it up again. Much to the surprise of his family who know were shitting themselves as I was about to have a share in their property assets.

Tbh the cracks in our relationship had started to show at this point but now way was I walking away from this with nothing. He now had a successful business and I'd had 8 years of no sleep and being a general dogs body.

The run up to the wedding was awful, the wedding was awful (huge family difficulties and arguing)

We never really recovered and we are now divorcing . But I'm glad I went through it as I'm in a much better position now than I was pre-marriage.

The thing is with men like this is why should they marry when they have it all anyway? For me is a clear sign of where they view or respect you.

If he will not make that commitment, now after all these years of commitment off you - leave and set up your own security. Because this is what its all about isn't it? Why would you be left pissing in the wind if he decides to end it.

I’d be thinking he doesn’t want you to have part of his house.
Do you share finances?
Just because you work full time doesn’t mean you are as secure as you could be. Have you got your own savings, property, pension etc. Did you take a hit to your career when you had kids.