I thought you would be mad

[WhereTheSpiritMeetsTheBones]

Hi everyone

I am turning this issue over and over in my mind and need some help working out whether I am doing something wrong, or whether my partner is.

He has a habit of withholding info from me/lying and says that he didn't tell me because he "thought I would be mad"

Some examples:
-He is an ex smoker and started smoking again and didn't tell me because he thought I would be mad and end the relationship. He had started smoking again for many months but he only told me that he had started smoking again after we had a big argument about something else and were discussing whether we should actually continue our relationship or not. He was very angry and defensive about it and in his words, only told me because he assumed I was going to end the relationship anyway.
If I had known he was smoking again I would have been disappointed for him, I would've wanted to discuss why he started again, what support he needed, what was going wrong etc. I would not have been mad because I know its an addiction, but I would have wanted to address the issue. I was mad about the way I found out.

-He took my debit card and bought some things from the shop. I had no idea until I was reviewing the transactions and panicked thinking my card had been cloned. He denied all knowledge and waited until I was on hold to the fraud department, then told me he had made the transaction and didn't tell me because he thought I would be mad. If he had told me immediately after going to the shop, I wouldn't have been mad (but would have complained that he didn't buy me anything) but again, given how I found out, I was mad because it was such a stupid thing to lie about.

So my question is: Am I being unreasonable? Where am I going so wrong that he cannot tell me things because he thinks I will be mad if he does? He has never volunteered this info to me so doesn't actually know if I will be mad or not..... but because of how I have found out I have ended up being mad about it.

Thanks for reading.

Oh yuck.

It is deflection. Rather than admitting to what he has done, he pretends that you are some form of aggressor, hence making you feel guilty.

Every single time, ask yourself...what would a reasonable person do?

A reasonable person would have told you they used your card if it was an error, or asked permission if intentional, because they respect you.

A reasonable person would admit to smoking again, because they respect you and don't want to lie. By saying you would go mad, he gets to opt out of feeling guilty for his failings, they become your failings.

Sorry he isnt a keeper. I would actually start going mad at him, every time he lied and manipulated me. Point out the truth.

Scumbag.

You say maybe he thought he had permission to use your card as he had bought something in the past with it , but had ‘forgotten ‘ to give it back

Nah , he’s just a thief , he knew he was in the wrong or he’d have been straight up from the start . A thief and a liar . Not great qualities for a DP . Get rid and dont listen to any more of his BS.

Liar and a thief.

What a catch.

@WhereTheSpiritMeetsTheBones you know what he's doing is wrong but he's got you so doubtful that you are asking MN.

If you don't live together I'd ask for my key back and finish the relationship.

If you live together I'd get some support from friends and family and get him to pack and leave.

I would do the freedom program so that you are strong when he tries to contact you.

You are worth more than being in this type of relationship

He doesn’t tell you the truth because he doesn’t want to be challenged. The only reason he came clean about your card was because he feared he faced criminal liability. Never give this man access to your card en pin again because the fraud department can’t protect you from your poor decisions.

Why are you letting him blame you for his inadequacies? Nothing is ever his fault. Your only mistake is waiting for him to be different.

This is who he is, you can’t change him and he doesn’t want to change. The balls in your court, either accept him for who he is: liar, gaslighter, immature man baby or leave. Staying means you accept him and his lies.

I expected to get some posts saying that I was in the wrong, so to read that so many of you think this behaviour is unacceptable has really given me food for thought. When I have discussed his behaviour with family members in the past, they did not think it was really wrong, thought he deserved another chance etc. Maybe they were thinking of his good side, so couldn't believe it...although most of my family members are happy to lie if it suits them so maybe to them lying is not a big deal. I don't really have any friends or a support network to ask, hence posting here and again appreciate all of your posts.

He has had a traumatic childhood and blames a lot of his behaviour on that. He has difficult relationships with his family so does not have a support network either. He has been to counselling several times but refuses to go again as he doesn't think it will help.

The cheating thing is really interesting because when we first got together he used to insist he would never cheat, could never accept me cheating. He used to really go on about it and I thought that was weird, like I would never go on about how I won't murder anyone because it is obvious I won't. Past partners had not cheated on him either, apparently. He has always acted like I am the guilty party though, always in the wrong. I don't have any friends any more, but no matter what colleagues I have worked with he has always assumed they fancy me/I fancy them and made things difficult. All of these colleagues have just been distant work colleagues, nothing close or personal or anything to be worried about. I just assumed he was insecure and I would have to suffer due to that forever - but reading your posts has made me rethink this a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if he was cheating, who knows, he lies about everything else and I have accepted it.

I can never ask him anything because he will get angry with me for not trusting him. If he is in a bad mood, it doesn't matter how I react, he will turn it into an argument. I can calmly say, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to get on with the day and he will work himself into a rage about how I want an argument. If I get mad, he has achieved what he wants and gets madder. If I don't react he will keep goading me until I get mad. It is bizarre.

For those asking why I am still with him, well. In the beginning I loved him very much, I did think I could change him, maybe I was naive. I don't think that he respects me anymore. He does have some good points. I realise that I can't have the relationship that I want with him. But we have been together a long time, I have nothing else in my life apart from him and work, I have never been alone as an adult and I am scared. That is embarrassing to admit but its true, I know that I am holding myself back here.

Totally understandable OP. My suggestion is you get yourself into counselling, build up your confidence to start making plans to build an independent life for yourself with friends and hobbies and then you'll feel able to leave, knowing a better life has already started.

My STBXH is like this - lied over everything from trivial things to cheating. When he got found out, or when I questioned the responses ranged from denial (I was wrong, why wouldn't I listen to him, he knew best) to being afraid of me/blame (I was so awful and negative and scary, that's why he couldn't stand up to me and tell me the truth, there must be something wrong with me) to anger (screaming, shouting, swearing, kicking things, how dare I question him, etc).

Some examples that stand out in my memory - he had hidden his cheating from me because he knew I wouldn't be able to accept it, how unreasonable of me, raging at me because I wasn't over it within two weeks and my reaction was going to make him do it again. Sitting down and researching and booking a holiday together (guess who paid?) then a few months later having a go at me because he didn't want to go there, but I was so awful and horrible that he couldn't say no to me. Growing weed/having weed delivered to the house - he knew I'd be angry, which was so totally unreasonable of me, why couldn't I understand he needed it, why was I being so uptight, etc. Various DIY/work around the house - so much money wasted because he didn't do things properly/safely, but I was too scared of him to question his word anymore, so now have to pay tradesmen to fix it all.

He also had a traumatic childhood, and seems to be stuck there mentally. It's impossible to live with someone like this, by the end I'd be shaking if I disagreed with him about something or thought he was lying, because of the fear of what would happen if I said something to him. It's so much better now I'm alone - life is hard in different ways, but at least I don't have to spend all day every day managing his reactions and picking my way through his lies.

Have you thought about doing the Freedom Programme OP? It's really helped me look at him objectively and put it all in some perspective. For so long I just pushed it all to the back of my head, tho I knew it wasn't right, cos all my energy was just focused on getting through the day without him kicking off.

He took my debit card and bought some things from the shop. I had no idea until I was reviewing the transactions and panicked thinking my card had been cloned. He denied all knowledge and waited until I was on hold to the fraud department, then told me he had made the transaction and didn't tell me because he thought I would be mad

OFGS dump him TODAY!

@WhereTheSpiritMeetsTheBones

I expected to get some posts saying that I was in the wrong, so to read that so many of you think this behaviour is unacceptable has really given me food for thought. When I have discussed his behaviour with family members in the past, they did not think it was really wrong, thought he deserved another chance etc. Maybe they were thinking of his good side, so couldn't believe it...although most of my family members are happy to lie if it suits them so maybe to them lying is not a big deal. I don't really have any friends or a support network to ask, hence posting here and again appreciate all of your posts.

He has had a traumatic childhood and blames a lot of his behaviour on that. He has difficult relationships with his family so does not have a support network either. He has been to counselling several times but refuses to go again as he doesn't think it will help.

The cheating thing is really interesting because when we first got together he used to insist he would never cheat, could never accept me cheating. He used to really go on about it and I thought that was weird, like I would never go on about how I won't murder anyone because it is obvious I won't. Past partners had not cheated on him either, apparently. He has always acted like I am the guilty party though, always in the wrong. I don't have any friends any more, but no matter what colleagues I have worked with he has always assumed they fancy me/I fancy them and made things difficult. All of these colleagues have just been distant work colleagues, nothing close or personal or anything to be worried about. I just assumed he was insecure and I would have to suffer due to that forever - but reading your posts has made me rethink this a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if he was cheating, who knows, he lies about everything else and I have accepted it.

I can never ask him anything because he will get angry with me for not trusting him. If he is in a bad mood, it doesn't matter how I react, he will turn it into an argument. I can calmly say, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to get on with the day and he will work himself into a rage about how I want an argument. If I get mad, he has achieved what he wants and gets madder. If I don't react he will keep goading me until I get mad. It is bizarre.

For those asking why I am still with him, well. In the beginning I loved him very much, I did think I could change him, maybe I was naive. I don't think that he respects me anymore. He does have some good points. I realise that I can't have the relationship that I want with him. But we have been together a long time, I have nothing else in my life apart from him and work, I have never been alone as an adult and I am scared. That is embarrassing to admit but its true, I know that I am holding myself back here.

Oh God it only gets worse ....please leave him .

Oh dear op that update. So he is also super abusive to boot. Can't say that's a surprise.

Something I've learned in life op is that there is a difference in someone 'being there for you' and someone just 'being there'.

So what if he has been around a while?
So have my hemaroids.

People who bring rage, manipulation and cruelty into your life, do not belong in it.

It seems the bar is in hell on Mumsnet today. The thing people put up with

I have never been alone as an adult and I am scared. That is embarrassing to admit but its true, I know that I am holding myself back here.

It is an adjustment but you will be fine. You do need to leave him though.

And talking about not cheating all the time, I have something called the Posh Spice theory. If you have to say it, it's not true. If he has to say he's not a cheat over and over, it's not true.

Ask yourself why you no longer have friends? The answer is clear as day, because he wants it that way, he is controlling you.
I hate to think how many years you've wasted on him, don't waste any more please. Without him, you will be able to get new friends back and have whatever happy relationship with colleagues you like. No drama, no arguments, imagine how much nicer life will be. Every adult should have a period of being self sufficient, stops you ever being co-dependent and see the wood for the trees. Part of the control will be him making you believe you can't do life without him, that you are too weak without him. Don't believe a word, you will get stronger with every day without him.

Oh OP, when I escaped this type of relationship, I had psychotherapy. Through this I woke up to the fact that I was surrounded by people who were either abusers or used to being abused. Including my family, where I learnt to allow unacceptable behaviour and not to value myself enough to have boundaries.

Nowadays I always ask myself, if I doubt my thoughts on how treated, how would a reasonable person behave.

You deserve better.

You need to leave this relationship.

It would be nice to understand why he's like this; it would be a real bonus (though vanishingly unlikely) to be able to help him. But they're minor considerations.

The main thing, and the first thing, is that you have to leave. Leave, and rebuild your life. Everything else can wait.

Sadly most of the men I've dated have had a huge issue with shame and not dealing with it. If I lie and you don't find out then it never happened and I won't feel shame. If I've done something wrong and I get angry and convince myself its all your fault I'm angry etc then I don't feel shame. I've never found a way to get through to them because it's much easier to be aggressive and compulsively lying then to admit you are a flawed human being like the rest of us. I used to have sympathy but then realised it was at the cost of my own wellbeing. They are energy vampires and you will never know where you really stand.

It's also easier to blame your exes for the failure of the relationship too.... You deserve better.