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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My wife divorced me because I left glasses by the sink

77 replies

SpaceOp · 20/05/2021 19:31

I just reread that blog post. It really resonates. I love dh so much and I know he loves me. And he's actually a wonderful husband and father who does loads. But....

I am just so tired of doing all the bloody thinking. I just want him to stop and think or plan or consider. Today, it was yet another minor situation where he didn't think. So small. So petty. But it really is death by a thousand paper cuts.

The list of things that wouldn't happen if I didn't think, plan, research and execute is endless. And as the main breadwinner and the one who works full time, I resent it even more. From birthdays to play dates to extra curricular activities to health care needs. Its all on me. He says he will do the cleaning but either it isn't done or its half hearted. And so I get to spend my time in a dirty house or clean it myself because if I suggest a cleaner he freaks out and says he will do it and I should stop being so controlling. He literally cannot understand that seeing the dirt is painful for me. Instead I should be grateful if he remembers to do the bathroom and the washing (even though there are constant piles and i have to deal with his stress when he realises hes done 4 loads but hasn't bothered to make sure he has done ds' football kit since the previous saturday).

He loves me, I know this. But he really can't see my.perspective.

I dont really know what I expect from this post. Just to get it out I suppose. I did contact a counselor. But haven't been able to bring myself to take it forward at an individual or couple level. Not sure why.

OP posts:
Onelifeonly · 21/05/2021 11:00

Except my DH works at home and his office is a tip. But yes, he can organise things when he cares enough to do it. Although in general he does spend a huge amount of time talking about plans but takes ages to put them onto action even when it is something he wants to do - drives me mad. So I do believe he doesn't have the skills I have and what comes naturally to me, needs a lot more prep and effort for him.

His mother was very indulgent though, and would make him coffee, bring him snacks etc well into his 20s. So partly due to upbringing. He doesn't get the same service from me!

LostInTheLingerieSection · 21/05/2021 11:03

Absolutely Juno DH is enormously successful at work and highly dedicated and conscientious. I'm very proud of him for that of course but it begs the question as to why he can manage it there and not at home. Why is he motivated at work and not in the same way at home? The rewards of money, status, power, recognition/admiration of colleagues and strangers motivate him to do well. At home the motivation is keeping the everyone fed and clothed, helping the children learn and develop and preventing the house from being an unbearable shithole. There's no real thanks or recognition, no money, and no one outside the home really gives a shit whether you pick up the same toy every single day but if you don't it gets stood on and broken and there's the risk of even more crying than normal. Smile

reallyreallyborednow · 21/05/2021 11:14

Actually the average man's brain IS biologically different from the average woman's but I can see that wouldn't suit the mind set of many women on here

Yes, there are biological differences.

Biological difference between the sexes does not extrapolate to one of those sexes being good at wifework and the other not.

Do those bio differences mean men are better at managing kitchens, food shopping and cooking? So how do you explain many top chefs are men?

Do the bio differences mean men have no skills for making a home look nice or pulling together a fashionable look? So how come many top designers are men?

It would appear to me that these “bio differences” do not mean they cannot do these things, because they absolutely can. They just choose, conciously or subconsiously, not to.

There’s also the social stigma of a messy or untidy house. Who gets judged by visitors? Always the woman. Men don’t care because no one thinks they are lazy or untidy, it will be their wifes fault…

SwedishK · 21/05/2021 12:03

@quizqueen

I find it hard to believe that women and, in general it is women, can't see and predict how their partners are likely to behave before they agree to live/marry/have kids with them. So I have little sympathy for those who have find they have chosen badly when all the warning signs have probably been there all along as to how these men and, in general it is men, will behave in future.
I’m one of those women. I met my dh fresh out of uni at 21, he was a few years older. We traveled the world together, we lived abroad and could afford a maid as we both had good jobs, we were in love and had very few responsibilities. A few years later I fell pregnant, and it wasn’t until DD was there that I realised I had changed loads by becoming a parent, but my dh didn’t. At all. As his career took off he became a very absent father and the resentment from me kicked in. He a little bit better now, nearly 20 years down the line, but there is definitely plenty of room for improvement . Especially when it comes to the mental load of carrying a family.

Before having kids, neither one of us was particularly responsible so I am not sure how I was suppose to predict the future at that point.

MadButterflyLady · 21/05/2021 12:15

@Hardertobreathe

But he will point to all the things he does do and genuinely not understand why I am frustrated

Not just me living with this then.
I actually have that ‘my wife divorced me’ blog saved. I swear when I ask for a divorce one day I’m going to send it to DH when he asks “why?”.

I’ve actually stopped cooking. I leave him to it, I’d rather have a sandwich than figure out, yet again, what to cook for dinner because he’s twiddling about in the garage doing some unnecessary tinkering with an engine. When teen asks what’s for dinner I say ‘ask dad’.

Mine would still be saying why. I sent him that blog post once, all it achieved was him being angry at me because it was horrible of Mr to bother him with all my petty concerns while he was so busy and stressed at work.
RantyAnty · 21/05/2021 12:49

What I don't understand is why boys are still being raised this way?

If a mum is annoyed that she has to do everything, you'd think she'd not want this to continue another generation.

HelenHywater · 21/05/2021 13:14

There's a lot of women blaming on this thread for crap male behaviour - it's either the mother for raising the son in this way, or the wife for marrying him and/or not whipping him into shape.

A man (indeed any grown up) is well aware of how to clean a house, what life admin entails and the basic requirements relating to how to bring up children and contribute to family life. It is his decision and his decision alone to act in a way that is not consistent with being a well functioning adult.

namechangemarch21 · 21/05/2021 13:40

OP I'm quite close to your DH in this scenario in a lot of ways. I keep looking into getting an adult diagnosis of ADHD, but basically: I have chaotic tendencies and struggle, genuinely, with a lot of things that fall under executive function. It also effects me hugely in work but I'm at a level where basically I can just about scrape by (unfortunately senior enough that nobody is checking my work day-to-day or even week-to-week and I can pull things together for annual reports etc when I have to)

We both work full-time, currently one child in nursery, and we have a cleaner but I would say DH does 70% of day-to-day housework. He cooks most meals, he does most cleaning and tidying. Our house, however, is often very messy: I think we both have lower standards than you would. Where it differs is I actually do the planning/ 'wife work' because I have basically been socialised into thinking its important and he doesn't care. So, I'll buy the Christmas cards and look into swimming classes, though he might take her, I'll do the annual bills, if we move/need to switch supplier I'll take charge of that, but we have a rule about not engaging in any trial periods for things because we both never cancel them and everything is set up to renew on direct debit in case. I deal with the cleaner, and I do most of the 'people' interaction because he finds it difficult. I buy all DDs clothes, and do the shopping.

DH has in a lot of ways 'trained' me, which is something I always see people recommending against and I understand that in the normal way of things. But I think he recognises, very well, where I'm genuinely struggling or taking the piss a bit. So, if a room is incredibly messy, I am genuinely overwhelmed by it and don't know where to start. He will give me a task, tell me to only do that task, finish it, and come back to him and he'll give me a new one. So: room if full of toys and mess and chaos, take all the clothes in the room, remove them to the laundry basket, don't deviate from that task then come back when its done. Obviously this isn't every day, but actually he's done it so much that it has really helped me know how to go about it.

The other thing is: we have a principle of both contributing as much as we can, how we can. So, the fact your DH 'can't' cook is a bit ridiculous. I actually can cook, but I am clumsy and slow with chopping vegetables and it genuinely takes me longer, so it makes more sense for him to do most of it. But pretty much everyone 'can' cook if they put any effort into it, even if it takes them longer. But it sounds like either you or your DH have thrown your hands up a bit around the areas he struggles to contribute. Some of them, he needs to get outside his comfort zone. Others, I would actually suggest you reduce your effort in some areas to make up for more efforts in ones he'll struggle with.

So: you're frustrated you need to remind him about half term. If that's something you genuinely think he's bad at, maybe you need to accept that, but not accept things like you cooking every day: he has more time, he can figure that out more. If you have more space from the tasks he can do, but chooses not to, then it won't feel as much of a burden to have to step up on the areas he struggles with.

I actually do a lot of the planning, thinking, looking ahead stuff: largely because I know I'll be rubbish at doing it last minute. On balance, DH and I think we both contribute equally to keeping our family running, and we're both giving as much as we can. He's an incredibly hard working 'do-er' but there are things he hates doing and thankfully they're things I'm ok at so I take up the slack there. I think its worth focusing more on that: he's working part time, he can pick up more of the slack, but sadly he's probably genuinely not best suited to that around some of the executive function areas, or he needs more support there. You need to both do a bit of thinking about what areas he can more easily step up in to even out the load.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 21/05/2021 14:29

Sadly this behaviour killed my marriage stone dead, I was always the breadwinner too and spent every weekend cleaning and mowing the very large lawn.
The absolute crunch came when the brakes on the car failed and I was nearly killed.
The car maintenance was absolutely his job as I had to do everything else but like everything else he just could not be arsed to do it.
I took it off to the garage myself and had it checked over brakes and all and it was a mess, hardly any oil, water not topped up, rust, brakes hadn't been maintained for ever. Husband lied said he kept up to date with it. That was the last straw.

G5000 · 21/05/2021 14:30

So actually your soul inconvenience in this is reminding your husband. You do realise if he didnt reorganise his life you wouldn't be able to work the hours you do?

Oh what BS. How many breadwinner fathers need to remind their very-part-time working wives, who are working part time exactly so they can take care of children, that half term is coming? If she wasn't earning 80% of their income, he certainly would not have the luxury to do this flexible job that fits his personality, without even considering how much it pays.

BlueLobelia · 21/05/2021 14:36

DH is lovely but he is a hoarder and bloody filthy. I have my moments... but actually what works for me (most of the time) is that we each take on something we do not hate. I hate loading and unloading the dishwasher so he does that and my alternate job are the kitty litter trays. I do the morning school run and he mostly does the afternoon, he does the taxes and I do the shopping and cooking. I do all the school -related admin and he does all the bill paying (although not today because I had to move money around). I do all the regular vaccing and mopping, but we have 2 very old and incontinent dogs and he does the vax carpet shampoo for doggy accidents (about 2 times a day). I do the mental load of present buying but he does cards.

It can be hit or miss and we have our moments but on the whole it works.

G5000 · 21/05/2021 14:50

I think this post describes the mental load the best. I can't ever read it again as I get ragey.
www.mamamia.com.au/delegate-mental-load/

Frankly, I am not sure if it is possible to totally change a fully grown man to fully take over the mental load on the same level a woman in his shoes would. The entire society has told him his entire life that this is not his job, he is not responsible for the invisible labour. You are. Like this article describes. www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210518-the-hidden-load-how-thinking-of-everything-holds-mums-back

In your shoes, I think as a first step, you need to make it clear that certain areas are his responsibility. All his. He needs to remember them, organise them and if he messes up, he needs to sort out the mess. You don't want to think about them, you don't want to hear about them. Don't remind him that half term is coming. If he hasn't re-organised his schedule, your only response should be 'Oh dear'. His job to figure it out.
He will remember next time.

Oh just a sidenote though, just because some tasks are now solely his, does not mean that the rest is yours. There are still plenty of things where both need to contribute - put lifting at least some things off your list and genuinely deciding you are no longer responsible for those will give you some headspace.

Triffid1 · 21/05/2021 14:58

@BlueLobelia

DH is lovely but he is a hoarder and bloody filthy. I have my moments... but actually what works for me (most of the time) is that we each take on something we do not hate. I hate loading and unloading the dishwasher so he does that and my alternate job are the kitty litter trays. I do the morning school run and he mostly does the afternoon, he does the taxes and I do the shopping and cooking. I do all the school -related admin and he does all the bill paying (although not today because I had to move money around). I do all the regular vaccing and mopping, but we have 2 very old and incontinent dogs and he does the vax carpet shampoo for doggy accidents (about 2 times a day). I do the mental load of present buying but he does cards.

It can be hit or miss and we have our moments but on the whole it works.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this doesn't sound very equal to me. Great that it's working for you, but I am not convinced that shopping and cooking day in and day out is the equivalent of dealing with taxes once or twice a year. Ditto, school admin is, in my experience, almost constant and relentless while bill paying is monthly/quarterly/annual.
BlueLobelia · 21/05/2021 15:12

well, its not entirely equal, but I work 28 hours a week to his to his 40 plus and we have settled into a routine that works pretty well for us. Cooking is a leisure activity for me mostly (and he sucks at it).

We did, about 10 years back (because I was getting angry at doing every bloody thing) sit down and divvy up some of the jobs- hence the dishwasher / kitty litter swap. Dishwasher (his) is once or twice a day. Kitty litter every second day. Plus the incontinet dog cleanup- that's quite intense right now. Last night for example I was in bed and MNetting by 9 and he was shampooing the carpets. I would say on average I do more. But generally it evens out.

BlueLobelia · 21/05/2021 15:13

well, saying on average and generally doesnt work, but it works out in a way I am pretty happy with. if that makes sense Grin

Cowbells · 21/05/2021 15:22

I remember DH asking me on a 'date' when DC were small, like it was some grand romantic gesture, then immediately telling me to find a film, book cinema tickets and sort out a sitter. I just said, "Nope, your date night. You sort it.' He looked so shocked. I think it was the first time he realised that this was part of the work load I usually took for granted.

KatharinaRosalie · 21/05/2021 15:34

The bloody mental load. I had a male friend who was always claiming it was all 50-50 in his house. See, here he is now, looking after his daughter and no 'dad-dressing', she is in weather-appropriate coat. I then asked him:

  • who did the work of figuring out how many and what kind of coats their DD needed?
  • who chose and bought the coats?
  • who listened and remembered that no, DD does not like unicorns on her clothes any more, she only likes dinosaurs now?
  • who keeps an eye on the sizes and buys next size up when needed, and either stores, sells or gives away the old coats?
  • who checks if the coats need cleaning and does it?
  • who checks the weather and decides when it's time to pack away winter coats and to bring summer stuff out?

And this applies to everything that keeps an household ticking. No, you will not get a medal that you were then able to take this coat and put on your DD.

TheLeadbetterLife · 21/05/2021 15:35

While I totally agree with everyone here about the mental load, I have to say I really don't like that article about the glasses by the sink.

It sounds like the writer is taking responsibility for his actions, but actually all the way through he keeps implying that his ex-wife's complaints weren't rational.

His version is, "she wants me to put things straight in the dishwasher. I -Rational Man - think I might want to use this glass again, so I leave it out so as not to be wasteful. BUT, in order to keep my Irrational Woman happy, I should have done what she asked. I am a better person now, if only I had been more accommodating to my silly wife's demands at the time."

In reality, he was probably just a lazy prat.

FourTeaFallOut · 21/05/2021 15:44

My DH takes it upon himself to sweep all the crap on the floor into a little pile near the utility room and then just leaves it there. I hoover just about every day but we are mid-building project so this is more annoying than it sounds. But, despite me telling him how annoying and unnecessary this is, he makes this little pile right by the washing machine so I have to sweep this little pile of crap every time I need to take clean clothes out of the machine.

So I got a little command hook and attached the dust pan and brush right above the default shit pile and I have written on the back of the dustpan "Now, sweep with this and put it in the bin".

It is, to date, the most passive aggressive move in our entire marriage but, fuck me, that little pile of shit has gone.

I am awaiting a retaliatory command hook with perhaps my own bathroom crap which has migrated across the entire room and it will still be worth it.

SpaceOp · 21/05/2021 15:48

@G5000 those are both excellent articles, neither of which I had seen.

This, from the BBC story, particularly resonated:

Mothers are more stressed, tired and less happy than fathers, who are happier during childcare, research shows, in part because they tend to do the fun, recreational activities more often. One Swedish study showed that when women thought the distribution of the more obvious housework was unfair and perceptions of each partner’s contribution differed, it led to marriage problems and increased the likelihood of a split. The risk is also exhaustion for the mothers, who might initially ask for help, which can come across as nagging if it has to be repeated again and again. “And then that wears on relationships,” says sociologist Daniel Carlson of the University of Utah, who found that unequal distribution of caring responsibilities in couples can also lead to less sex

DH has been known to accuse me of not enjoying time with the DC. And while at times, there is an argument that I absolutely need to let go and live in the moment, it's also true that it's very hard to do when I know that they still will need feeding, need a decent bed time etc. I think there's a reason I have always enjoyed spending time with my children outside of the house...!

The dog food one was also excellent and so so true. It's not just the confusion, but the struggle with getting them to understand they have to do the thinking and the planning and that they don't need over the top gratitude every time.

Again, to be fair to DH, we have got there with certain things.

I think what I'm taking from this is that I need to be a bit clearer about all the stuff I'm doing. AND do a better job of handing some of it off to him. The problem is whether that will be effective. He still maintains I never once asked him to sort swimming lessons for DD before she started school - I think I must have mentioned it at least every couple of months from after she turned 2....!

OP posts:
KatharinaRosalie · 21/05/2021 16:12

SpaceOp ah so agreeing on division might not work, if he will just claim that he had never agreed to it and you have never discussed it. If he tends to do that, I would put it in writing.

And the consequences definitely need to happen. I have a darling friend whose husband is a lazy useless lump. Every now and then she tries to get him to do something, and he agrees that yes he should 'help'. Then doesn't. But then - and that's the important part - my darling friend runs around like a blue arsed fly, trying to fix and organise everything at the last minute. Finding a new qym kit, searching high and low for babysitter/dog walker/food delivery slot etc. I always tell her to let the useless lump sort it, but of course she says the family will suffer. So she gets off scot free.

SpaceOp · 21/05/2021 17:57

To be honest, the family DOES suffer. I get where your friend is coming from. DD still can't swim and it's taken on epic proportions in her heard so that swimming lessons (which I eventually organised) are very traumatic.

This is the problem. I can and do leave DH to sort himself and his family out. I don't get involved. He doesn't have a passport? Not my problem. We have plans on the one weekend his family is in town? Not my problem. He doesn't have clean clothes? Not my problem. The list of such things is endless - I'm not some pushover who has been manipulated by her man child to do everything.

But it's not so easy when we're talking swimming lessons for DD or occupational therapy or a tutor for DS. Or food for the pets!

OP posts:
LostInTheLingerieSection · 21/05/2021 19:17

One of my issues is that I'll raise this with DH, he's very lovely and understanding and nodding in agreement and resolves to do the agreed thing. He puts a reminder on his phone and writes in the calendar. And it works for about a week. After that he's too busy, he has an urgent work thing, he plays tennis that night, or he just plain forgets and looks full of remorse. My life is a series of micro disappointments.

I truly think he is wonderful and I love him and his many great qualities but it does chip away at you.

We're expecting no3 (a surprise) and I'm already worried about how this will throw us right back into the depths of resentful inequality. I feel tired thinking about.

LostInTheLingerieSection · 21/05/2021 19:20

DH has been known to accuse me of not enjoying time with the DC. And while at times, there is an argument that I absolutely need to let go and live in the moment, it's also true that it's very hard to do when I know that they still will need feeding, need a decent bed time etc. I think there's a reason I have always enjoyed spending time with my children outside of the house...!

This resonates so much. I don't enjoy spending time with the kids because it feels like an extremely hard, utterly constant job that im a bit crap at and everyone knows it. DH loves playing with the kids and looking after them because he has so much else going on in his life with work etc that playing with the kids really is down time for him.

mummyway · 21/05/2021 19:48

If you can afford it then just get a cleaner. Life is short and you deserve to have a bit of less stress. Be kind to yourself and get the cleaner for your peace of mind.

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