How to discuss finances with DP in this situation?

[superpies]

So, when I got together with my DP 8 years ago he was dealing with very serious depression. I honestly thought at times that I would lose him. He has recovered now and is a very different person but he stills gets anxious and worried sometimes and finances always affect him pretty badly in this way.

We've had a very difficult couple of years, so many things have happened. To cut a long story short and not blather on our financial situation needs some serious discussion and action to be taken...I know it sounds crazy but he just will not do this and if I push he says he is getting upset.

I have tried to be really understanding and pick the right time and on and on but have got nowhere. If I really push he concludes something with me but will then backtrack the next day or come up with a new vague plan that he refuses to discuss the details of.

I have always been the practical one in our relationship but this is now really affecting me badly.

Don't get me wrong we do discuss finances generally speaking. We both work and sort out who will pay for what etc However we are now in a situation where a couple of big decisions need to be made.

Each decision would have consequences but making no decision at all would be the worst option. Making no decision at all is what we are heading for simply because he won't get on board.

Because this has been brewing for ages I would say basically there are 4 big things that need sorting out. I am thinking of sitting him down this weekend and presenting it all to him and telling him if we won't make a decision now I'll have to interpret that as he won't ever and I'll have to work out what to do taking that into account.

Just fyi if he disagreed with me then that would be fine, as I keep telling him...if I know he doesn't agree we can work out something else. The thing is when he disagrees he thinks that automatically means whatever we're discussing is vetoed and this is actual practical stuff that needs sorting anyway. It's on a par with "we need to pay the rent"..."I disagree let's just not bother."

I think the problems of the last couple of years have made him fear change. However as I've said, if we do nothing some pretty crap changes are going to happen anyway.

Sorry I'm rambling a bit but DP got an email this morning pertaining to some of this, panicked and then when I calmly and optimistically started to suggest options other than sitting there waiting for this situation to happen to us that we take the reins he just shut me down. I feel so stuck right now.

Does anyone have any experience of a similar thing?

This situation is untenable and I feel very sorry for you. How incredibly frustrating and worrying for you.

I definitely agree with your idea of tackling it this weekend and hopefully people on this thread will give you some good ideas about how to go about it.

My idea would be to not start with specifics. Start in a general way about how there are things which need to be decided on and can he please contribute to decisions.

If he says no or does whatever he usually does then yes I think you need to tell him that in that case you care going to make unilateral decisions and you will continue to do so until such time as he can discuss things properly.

It seems like either:
He will conquer this fear and get on board, or
You will always be in charge of finances in your relationship
Or, you split up because living like this will drive you insane.

I wish you well!

PS what is he like in the rest of your relationship? Because to be honest, this aspect sounds horrific .

Are your finances shared?

Do you have visibility over the finances?

I would leave him over this if need be.

I can’t imagine a scenario in which this is not some kind of control issue rather than anxiety. Otherwise he could let you take over the decision-making.

It would be useful to understand what the decisions are and how your finances are set up.

I have tried to be really understanding and pick the right time and on and on but have got nowhere. If I really push he concludes something with me but will then backtrack the next day or come up with a new vague plan that he refuses to discuss the details of.

Sounds to me like ultimatum time, then.

He can’t refuse to discuss details. It’s fundamental stuff.

I’d be very worried there was more to the situation I didn’t know.

If it’s not that, then it’s control issues because otherwise he could deal with anxiety by allowing you to make the plans.

I’d be opting out of a relationship with someone opting out of being a functioning adult.

I’d this how you want your whole life to go OP? Are there any other huge decisions likely to come up in future? Marriage? Kids? What if you were offered your dream job on the other side of the world?

You only get one go at life.

I'd tell him we need to have the conversation and he can pick anytime in the next 48 hours to have it. Possibly come up with 3 suggestions (early tomorrow before the kids get up, tomorrow night when they are in bed, or after lunch, for example). Put the ball in his court to choose the time that works for him, it will give him a modicum of control. Be prepared for a nuclear option (whatever that is for you, pp have suggested taking over finances, leaving him, there might also be a "separate finances" option) but don't open with it. Open with you need to come to a consensus and can't if he won't engage. If he's a "black and white thinker" it might not work but at least you will know you have given it your best shot.

How did he cope before you got together? How would be cope if you split up?

I’d find this really difficult. Irrespective of the reasons for his unwillingness to act like a responsible adult and an equal partner in this relationship - not just on finances but in communicating openly with you - it’s completely unreasonable and unfair and probably unsustainable.

It's hard to say without knowing what the decisions are. Are you talking about debt? Are bailiffs or court cases involved?

I would find his attitude incredibly frustrating, tbh.

I know it sounds crazy but he just will not do this and if I push he says he is getting upset.

Oh no, no, no. That is not the way relationships and adult life work. Him saying that is him manipulating you. He's been training you - Shut up or I'll get upset. It's underhanded, abusive, and can't be tolerated.

This should be a deal breaker for you.

Some posters are being very odd. This aren’t behaviours he’s choosing, no one would choose to feel terrified would they?

Did he have a therapist who got him through the acute period of depression? Could you book a session and have this discussion with the therapist so that dh has an advocate and can deal with these feelings as they come up while discussing finances?

There are some really effective therapies now ( not taking therapies) for this level of trauma. EDMR and TRE being two of them.

Good luck with it op.

Since he’s well enough to hold down a job, it’s worth considering whether not coping with basic discussion about household finances with his long term partner is inevitable or a choice...

Sounds like emotional manipulation on his part to keep you where he wants you, which I'm going to guess is paying for a lot if not all. I've got a suspicion that this is your situation.

Why don’t you write down all the options and implications that he can read them at his own pace?

Some posters are being very odd. This aren’t behaviours he’s choosing, no one would choose to feel terrified would they?

No one would, no.

But it’s really not clear from OP’s post that this is the issue.

OP says he will discuss things then backtrack, and refuse to discuss any further at that point.

OP says “we do discuss finances generally speaking. We both work and sort out who will pay for what etc”. So it’s not “finances in general” that is triggering him.

It sounds like something else is going on.

Maybe it’s related to trauma. Or maybe it’s not.

In the 8 years you've been together what treatment has he had for his depression? Does he think it was successful?

Like pp said if he has a therapist from his treatment he could speak to about the reluctance/anxiety he has about discussing finances thats a good starting point.

My ex was like this, shut down completely when the conversation turned to long term finances, savings, etc. Would come out with odd statements about money and why we didn't need to look at it the way I wanted to. He wasn't depressed though, just shit with money and no desire to tackle the issue.

I would definantly set a time to discuss there. Maybe prefix the conversation with..” I know you are not comfortable talking about fiancé’s/x/y but we need to have a discussion. I suggest we sit and talk about them tomorrow at 11am (or whenever)”.

I wouldn’t suggest too late in an evening as that could be pushed back or he could say he was too tired.

Also, maybe not expect a definitive answer. Discuss the various points, and then maybe suggest allowing 24 hours to mull them over. Then hold another meeting to make the final decesion,

Can it be a conversation that is about how to come to a decision, rather than what the decision should be?

So something like, unfortunately doing nothing is something i can no longer accept as the stress effects me too and i cannot tolerate 'us losing out home' or
Whatever the bottom line is.

So how is it best for us to tackle this as what i have tried so far has not worked for either of us. And i want to solve this with the least distress to you possible. How do i do that?

If you cannot partake in the resolution of it then you have to hand over all responsibility of solving this problem to me and you must support me in that and the decisions i
Make and outcome. As you are not able to do at the current time and as I reiterate doing nothing cannot continue.

And then once over this hurdle consider your long term options and reflect on the relationship

@Chamomileteaplease That's a good idea to start in a general way.

I think I always will be the one mainly in the driving seat financially but it's frustrating me that he's opting out and deciding against things at the same time.

I think it will come down to me deciding and then he can either become part of that plan or not. That will be much harder to sort out obviously, which is again frustrating.

Relationship is generally good, believe me I'm far from perfect myself Thanks for the good wishes, I think I am 100% going to need them.

"Darling, I'm going to decide what to do about x, y and z tomorrow. Shall I just do what I think is best, or do you want to help choose what to do?"

If you’re in debt contact stepchange or somewhere reputable to help you. Debts can be fixed.

If it’s fear of being evicted go on shelters website. I’m not sure if the covid situation now but you couldn’t be evicted during lockdown.

If it’s about getting a bigger house and mortgage I’d suggest you don’t as I’m not sure you will spend the rest of your life with him as his attitude to problems may not be something you can put up with long term and you may end up calling it a day.

If it’s about transferring debt to a zero percent card go for it - but do not take on his debt as you will be liable for it if you split up.

I couldn’t tolerate a partner that couldn’t pull his weight as an equal so I’m not much use for advice sorry. After that length of depression I’d have had enough.

I would write down the issues and some options, like a couple of big pieces of paper with a flow chart on them, give them to him to look at and then give him a couple of hours to think about it.

@Love51 that's very good advice, thank you.

To the people saying it's an abusive thing, putting this all off is not helping him in any way. I would understand if he benefited from it. It's really worse for him overall.

For those asking about financial setup. We're not married, both earn. I am the slightly higher earner atm. We both pay roughly half of what we spend together so rent/food/bills and any fun things unless one of us offers to pay fully.

@NoSquirrels we've always talked things through and agreed before now. He has said himself that I need to lead on financial decisions and he'll go along with what I think, because we both agree I am better at that. I'd never make someone do something they really didn't want to do but these issues aren't going away so something has to be decided imo.

Tbh I just wish he would admit "I'm going to stick my head in the clouds, ignore it all and hope for the best." I think that's the truth really.

@Ohyesiam Yes he had therapy and medication. He is lucky enough to have a great GP too who guided him through everything. Maybe a few sessions about the anxiety he still has would be a good idea if he can get it arranged.

Thanks @anxietyanonymous your suggestion is exactly what I'm going to do.

Can you do a written account of what you need to discuss? Write it all down, bullet points, pros/cons of whatever decisions and then ask him to read it in his own time (with a time limit of 3 days, say) and then ask him to either tell you what he would like to happen or to reply in written form. Maybe he would find it easier not having to do it face to face?

@Flugbusters4444 the shutting down thing is so frustrating. It sometimes makes me want to shut down too. The cluster of these issues has rolled on since the start of the year and my patience has really worn through.