Anybody ever considered getting a mediator to get through to their parents?

[SelkieFly]

I have googled mediator but it's all pre-court stuff.

I don't think my mother is quite a narcissist, but she is a people pleaser except to me. ie, she has used me as a tool in her people pleasing and then got furious with me when I point that out to her.

I was accused of not being happy for her. My points were not acknowledged at all. She has done things that I have asked her twice not to do. She has labelled me (paranoid, sensitive, difficult) for years whenever I challenge her or the status quo. My father is a weak man who backs her up regardless but together they're a strong force against me (I'm single).

My brother who thinks he's such a logical rational person sees the current estrangement through my mum's eyes. ie, I hurt mum. Even thought I told her that she had hurt me and that's what started it.

By telling my mum that she hurt me, I hurt her. My family have all ignored the first part but reacted in defense of my mum, all aggrieved on her behalf that I hurt her.

I see all the dysfunction in the family, I'm the scapegoat I know.
I can't talk to them because I get so angry at being stonewalled.

Could a mediator get them through a series of ordered questions to acknowledge that it's not ok to label somebody else, and that if they do that, the other person can reasonably have a hurt reaction to that. And that if the person you're hurting doesn't accept that they have no right to feel hurt after ''all we've done'' then the hurt person has the right to take a step back.

I feel like they're reasonable people except with me

I don't want to have to give up on the only family I have when I know that they're not all bad. They have a blind spot and the blindspot affects ME. But they're not 100% bad.

No to using a mediator, it won’t work. Your mother will likely manipulate that person for her own ends.

Your brother here is their golden child and your dad is both his wife’s enabler and secondary abuser. What you write re them is all typical of what occurs in a narcissistic family structure.

Their blindspot as you call it is you minimising their abusive behaviour towards you. Do not do this. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles, your assigned role in that family unit is scapegoat. You do not mention if you have children but if you do they will be treated not too dissimilarly as to how you have been.

These people will not change and I would urge you to reduce all contact levels with them further to zero sum. It is not possible to have a relationship with such disordered of thinking people. Your mother has no empathy or insight, that is also why using a mediator would not work. No decent mediator would ever want to see both you and your mother in the same room, joint counselling is never recommended where there is any abuse within the relationship.

I would suggest working on you instead and distance yourself further from them. Find a therapist to work with and preferably someone who also has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment. Read Children of the self absorbed by Nina W Brown and the current Well we took you to Stately Homes thread on these Relationships pages.

I understand your wanting to try. They're not likely to change. You can change how much of your focus it remains in your life. Perhaps you need to grieve for what won't be and look ahead to creating something new that doesn't involve them.

If you are the scapegoat and DB the golden child that toxic family dynamic is deeply entrenched and they won't want to give it up.

You could consider family counselling.

Thanks @AttilaTheMeerkat I've been on here long enough to really value your input on these matters.

It's a shame though, I feel like they're almost good people. But everything thinks they're a good person whether they are or they aren't, don't they? Maybe I'm no different.

But yeh, the evidence I have before me is that they feel entitled to hurt me, that they can stonewall me if I try to give them any feedback, that they can all order me to consider their feelings while being unaware (?) that they've steamrolled over mine.

This is my reality and yet they feel the victims of me. I have to step away from people who think it's fine to hurt me. That really has to be basic minimum.

I'm seeing a psychotherapist and at the moment she's been talking about being kinder to myself, self-acceptance, acknowledging ''this is a difficult relationship for me'' and distancing myself from the emotion. She's been talking to me about polyvagal theory and I'm really looking in to it like homework (optional homework! I enjoy this kind of thing, it's like catnip to me).

But she obviously doesn't really tell me what to do wrt my parents. She is really helping me though. I do feel less critical of myself for having failed to control my anger with them (after they stonewalled me for months).

They project everything on to me. It is so frustrating that they have hurt me so much but they feel really good about themselves while I'm in therapy trying to heal the trauma from decades of being gaslit by this.

@namechangingforthis19586 I didn't see these replies earlier! Thank you.
Yes, I have to diminish the significance of this in my head. At the moment it still feels quite all-encompassing. We haven't spoken much for a year (because they're waiting for me to stop being so silly and apologise to them for hurting them, insinutating that they hurt me, how rididiculous..........

So I suppose over time it will diminish.

@ItsReallyOnlyMe

You could consider family counselling.

@ItsReallyOnlyMe yes the temptation is strong. I wonder would they go. I guess if I suggested it and they refused that would really speak volumes. To their willingness to resolve things (or not) to their fear of being forced to listen to me...............

Mediation isn’t about apportioning blame so I expect you could be frustrated at the process. We used a family mediator who was excellent in different circumstances so you could try talking to someone to get an idea of anything they could do

No to family counselling. Again it will not work out and even if your mother did attend, she will merely use the facilitator to put the boot into you. Such people really have no empathy and insight at all and they also never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. This is also why joint counselling is not recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship.

I can recall a stately homes poster doing this with her family and it went extremely badly for that poster. Do not let that happen to you.

No one can explain basic human empathy into anyone. They have it for you or they don't.

Everyone knows name calling is not ok. Your parents are not 4 years old. They know what they are doing is hurtful and they are playing the victim. In order to cause you further pain.

Have counciling for yourself to help you understand why you keep looking to give people who treat you badly the benefit of the doubt. And why you are looking to the same people who hurt you to take that hurt away. It's not going to happen.

They are toxic and they always will be. You cant change them. But you can step away.

I've thought of a good question for my parents who feel that they have ''done so much for me''.

How does being hurtful to me now ease the burden of all you've done for me????

I really do wonder that.

@SelkieFly
Hi there. I’ve just seen your thread and hope you don’t mind me messaging as it sounds like we’re in a very similar situation. I’m currently estranged from my family and have the role of scapegoat. Despite advice from many people around me about the need to maintain no contact I cannot settle to this and think constantly about mediation. I agree with what you say about them being almost good. Have you made any progress with mediation? It’s something I’m looking into currently. Hope you don’t mind me messaging xxx

HI @annabel19, no I don't mind at all, always good to chat to people with the same issues.

I haven't done this, yet! but I did wonder about it. As you can see upthread I've been advised against it! But it's not something I have 100% ruled out yet, I still think there's a chance that a calm mediator could shift her thinking a little bit.

It would also show that I cared enough to try to fix things.

It would show that I was open to somebody objective over viewing our ''fall out''

If it doesn't work, I think I would feel more at peace knowing that I'd tried everything I could think of first before giving up. My brother's solution is that I just swallow my hurt back down and ignore it and play nice, but I know I'm not doing that.

My mother is not a full on narcissist, the dysfunction is very much in our family system. She can be normal and reasonable to other people, strangers.... She feels she owns ME.

My mother is capable of being kind to other people. Listening to other people (outside of the family). She has empathy (although not for me). So it's very hard to give up all hope that one day she'll get it. Just get that it's not ok to be hurtful to me, and that i am the judge of whether or not I'm hurt. I said I was hurt and she disagreed which I think shows the problem in a nutshell, a total blind spot for the fact that I have a separate reality. I cannot have a reality that pulls the rug from under her reality. And because I'm her daughter, my reality threatens her perception of herself in a way that strangers realities wouldn't.

So there is that hope there. It seems possible that one day she could have an epiphany and get it.

But I am also beginning to feel bored when I think of her. Just as much bored as upset, so that's a good sign I think. The boredom is detachment so I can feel less triggered and hopefully stay calm around her.

So, if I do it, I"ll let you know what happens. If it improves things. If they listen to a third party with the same message I've been trying to convey for years.

When you google for mediation in your area, is it all pre-court?

Do you have siblings who also see everything through the same lens?

@SelkieFly
Have you looked into Relate? That’s what I was considering. I think they offer mediation too.
I’ve suggested mediation to my mum- her reaction was very angry to begin with. I’ve received much of the same advice as you have above. Everyone else seems to be able to see that she won’t change. I’ve had counselling from a specialist in narcissistic abuse who said the same. Our estrangement came about because of my wedding a year and a half ago. My family is dysfunctional but life had been plain sailing for a number of years. I was very closely involved in my sisters family. As soon as I got engaged my sister changed her whole attitude towards me. We had a very short engagement. A week before our wedding my sister sat my now husband down and warned him not to marry me. He rationally explained that her behaviour wasn’t reasonable and hadn’t been throughout our engagement. My sister then went out of her way to ruin our wedding day. I am aware that my mother engineered much of this. We were estranged for a year after our wedding at which point my mother made allegations that my husband is ‘coercive and controlling’ and that is the reason I am no longer in touch with my family. My mother has also threatened me in various ways. Various claims have been made by my family that they have felt that since our wedding I have been in an abusive relationship yet not one of them has tried to phone me or come to see me in this time.
I know how you feel about mediation- it feels like if you sat down with your mum and an outsider then she’d have to see sense. I’m not sure this is the case.
I wish you luck though- the pain of estrangement is huge and something I could never have imagined until it happened to me. I feel like life stopped a year and a half ago xxx

Well you can try family counselling op it’s thr same sort of thing, but you need to understand there is always two sides. Mediation is a two way street. And you need to be strong enough to hear what they think of your behavuour. As well as them hearing what you think of theirs and it doesn’t feel like either of you are of a mind to be open to that right now. You’re too far apart and there is still too much raw emotion.

@Bluntness100
I’ve been open to hearing their side to be fair and would be in the future x

Annabel

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles.
You are the scapegoat in a narcissistic family structure and you have indeed been advised by a specialist in narcissistic abuse that your mother will not change. I would take that person's word for it, far more than any Relate counsellor (who is likely not going to be very experienced in the mechanics of abusive relationships anyway, let alone narcissistic abusive relationships). Your mother is angry too because she is abusive, not because she is angry.

Honestly you are better off out of your family of origin and your mother has done you a real service by going no contact, well for now at least until she wants something of or from you. I write that because she may well not let you go that easily. You may continue to receive gifts, cards etc or she may enlist a "flying monkey" in the shape of another relative/neighbour into contacting you further. That person will not want to hear your side of things either.

With you not currently in favour they will hopefully further turn on each other. Your mother could well contact you when she wants something or wants to do something really nasty to you. Do not fall for such approaches if these happen. Leave them to it and work on your own self and boundaries.

You need to let go of any and all hope here that she will change because that keeps you trapped in your fear, obligation and guilt. If your mother can and has manipulated you all as her family for many years she will make easy work of a counsellor and perhaps even get that person to take their side. You will not have any say. Joint counselling as well is NEVER recommended either where there is abuse within the relationship so that's another reason for not going down this route.

You need time and space away from your family of origin in order to heal. Reclaim your life as a person in your own right; your life restarted 18 months ago.

I am so sorry this is sounding without hope in respect of mediation and joint counselling but it is really not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

@AttilaTheMeerkat
Thanks so much for your message. After lots and lots of reading and lots and lots of counselling I know what you are saying is true. I don’t feel guilt anymore. I just feel complete and utter shock and fear at what she has been able to do to me (I’ve lost my whole immediate family and this also makes attending any wider family events very difficult so I feel like I’ve pretty much lost my wider family too). I find not having a family horrifically difficult. Thanks again for your message. It sounds like this is something you have experience of x

Yes. It is indeed not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist (learnt that a long time ago).

Do consider reading and or posting on the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages. Some of the posters on there have narcissistic mothers and relations and their words could offer you some degree of help too.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you x

Yes, all the pressure is on you to interpret what your mother did as NO BIG DEAL.

That was what happened to me.

1. NO BIG DEAL & 2) that IM SO SENSITIVE and now, angry and holding a grudge.

@Annabel19 I haven't looked on relate no, I think I will.
It's weird, at this point, I know that what @AttilaTheMeerkat is saying is correct. But because of the way I've been hardwired I feel harsh not sublimating myself and saying sorry. I also feel harsh not being in contact.

I think bringing in an objective third party would help me deal with that feeling which is less than 'guilt' but still, a feeling that it is unkind to make this decision. Reaching out to a mediator would be another attempt to fix things, another attempt to ask her to communicate.

So I would feel better when I walk away knowing that i did absolutely everything I could.

So it would help me walk away and not feel bad about that.

As bluntness said upthread, I understand that mediation would be a two way street in terms of hearing things you don't want to hear. But my parents haven't tried to tell anything specific. Just a ''how dare you'' message. I'm open to hearing why my parents feel so entitled to label me but they won't communicate with me at all, so I'm guessing that they feel entitled to label me because they were generous to me financially. I have always been grateful and always told them I was grateful so I don't know what a mediator would say. That I should overlook some things, yes, I can see that. I can overlook things.

But it's unhealthy to overlook that they will hurt me and then quite unapologetically NOT CARE. How can I feel safe around that?
But I imagine that a mediator would have some comments for me that would shock me/hurt me or anger me.

Sometimes you just need to be 100% sure that giving up ok. That you've tried to fix things.

This is new for me too, and I also thought we were close (well, kind of, although I was aware I didn't tell her a lot of things, but she thought we were close).

We have fallen out before when she's upset me. She never used to get upset with me so I have to give her that. It was always me reeling because she'd been so unaware of how something she did or said would make me FEEL.

I have in the past obviously tried to let her know ''oh that hurt when you ignored what I asked you not to do and did it anyway'' but in the past i always just gave up and let things go back to normal after a few months. This is the first time that I have held tight waiting for her to GET IT, but of course that hasn't happened. She just gets more and more martyred as time goes by.

What I regret now is that I told her a year ago what she'd done to upset me. And then she gave me the silent treatment for hurting her !!!

I wish now I'd just faded away without saying why, and then she would have had to have asked me what was wrong.

I think it would have had slightly more impact if she had to sit there wondering why I wasn't in touch, rather than spending that time feeling really defensive that she is perfect.

OP you're very enmeshed in your family and what they think of you.

You've been advised over and over again, that they won't change. Your behaviour is similar to everyone in an abusive relationship who is in denial - they think that the abuser doesn't realise what they are doing and if they could just see how their behaviour was affecting you, then they'd change.

OP think about it. If someone had that kind of self awareness or was willing to reflect on their behaviour, they wouldn't be abusive in the first place. If only they could see!! Is the cry of every family black sheep and scapegoat. They can see, they just don't care. Everyone in the family is getting something out of your scapegoating, that's why they do it and they aren't going to stop.

You need to start centering yourself here, not your family. Start working on disengagement and healing - the sooner the better. Let go - stop expecting them to change, they're not going to. Drop the rope. The fog will clear and you'll be able to understand what people are saying. At the moment you are in a cloud of fog that you can't see through. Disengage and it will start to clear.