What women want

[Jacob174937]

I’m a 25 year old man who has occasionally looked to this forum for insights on what things women go through, to try and be a better partner.

I’ve been dumped again (second time in 2 years) and I’m feeling I just can’t be enough.

I’m average height (5’10- quite insecure about this) average face, I have graduated but only got an average job in finance. Im kind and really try and look after my partner and can hold a conversation, but it feels like there’s always someone better she can get!!

My question is this - will women always go after the taller, richer versions of me? How much do they really care about kindness and the fact I do my best? Sometimes just feel like giving up

@Jacob174937

This perhaps derives from a more fundamental problem with the dating-app generation. Relationships are easily replaced and therefore no longer command the respect and devotion they would once could

You also said: But when I commit to someone I really commit.

Do you think perhaps, and I mean this kindly, that you may have a tendency to become a little intense, and that you expect the same in return?

Total commitment and devotion are both quite a big ask in a new relationship. Perhaps work on enjoying someone's company just because you love being with them. Otherwise you might be in danger of wanting too much too soon, and that will put people off.

@NommyChompers

Can you see the irony in you being insecure women are only interested in money and looks and you talking about avoiding good looking women as they will try to upgrade and ‘looking after’ partners. People aren’t objects and if you start looking at individuals rather than ideals you will be lots happier. Honestly this reminds me of the guys at 25 who thought they were ‘really nice guys’ because they’d never let a good looking girl walk home alone.

Yes, you’re right. I think it’s maybe being trapped in doors for so long and starting to see myself and people as objects of value. It’s totally wrong and your right I need to get out of that thought process

Maybe I do demand too much. That’s something I’ll try for next time, just focus on having fun. I suppose my desire for devotion is maybe a desire for stability but I can’t expect anyone to give me that

I think it’s very endearing that you’ve “ looked to this forum for insights on what things women go through, to try and be a better partner.”

Sorry to hear you’ve been dumped. It’s really not a nice feeling. I’ve been there a lot.

Perhaps you need to look at the type of women you are going for yourself? It is quite a stereotype - and one of my housemates goes on about how he’s such a nice guy, decent looking, not a bad job, treats women nicely, etc - but that he is always dumped or overlooked for more Alpha/better looking/guys with money, etc. It’s a stereotype and perhaps there are women like that, but not the full picture. Said housemate is now vowing to treat women like crap because he thinks that will get him more success 🤦‍♀️ Don’t be that guy!

Like others have said perhaps you haven’t met the right person yet. Also it takes until age 25 for your brain to fully develop (the pre-frontal cortex) and then a lot of changes and self-discovery and self-development between 25 and 30 (and so on..).

Obviously I don’t know you and I don’t know what you’re like but I would say ensure you have interests/hobbies outside of work that you do. Make sure you’re interested and truly listen to what women have to say (sure you do from what you’ve said but may be worth reading up on it), never stop learning and educating yourself and trying to improve yourself. Don’t assume you know everything, don’t be ‘entitled’. And just be yourself and be a decent partner.

On the subject of entitlement, some guys seem to feel ‘entitled’ to get with a woman because they consider themselves a decent guy, intelligent, good looking - etc. They behave low-key passive aggressively, keep ‘trying it on’ and potentially become outwardly aggressive. A real turn off. Not everyone is going to like you or gel with you in a romantic sense, no matter how decent, intelligent, good-looking or charming you are - etc. Not saying you are like this but thought I would say this as I’ve seen this behaviour quite a lot.

Every woman is different (like every man too). I rarely drink for example so a turn-off for me would be someone who likes to go out drinking every Friday/Saturday night. But some people are really into that and would happily get involved.

Also I once broke up with a ‘nice’ guy. He wasn’t bad looking and he did make me laugh and actually he had a really decent job and could have offered me security and a family etc, but ultimately while he made me laugh at times he didn’t really “get” me and his sense of humour was a mis-match for mine and I wasn’t really feeling “it”. After so much heartbreak my long-term partner’s humour is exactly the same as mine and we have such a laugh together. Unfortunately he can’t offer me the security right now as his work situation has never been stable - we’re both a bit older and would like to start a family - but hopefully that will change after things calm down with this pandemic. My point is that women don’t always go for the guy with loads of money.

I hope this helps and I wish you all the best!

What do you want from a partner? It seems from your last response that you're suggesting you go for someone less attractive because... what? She'll be grateful or something?
We all like different things. I like honesty, humour, intelligence, a listener. Someone who will encourage me. I don't want to be molly coddled. I like someone who can be fun and suggest stuff to do. I like a go-getter, a work ethic. I like someone who has a "purpose" in life. No mansplaining. Someone who will share the "mental load". I don't like men to be "gentlemen" and feel like they have to treat me like a "lady". No smarm. No financial control or being tight. Not just sitting watching TV. Same or similar politics. Similar music/film tastes helps. Great sex (I think this is a chemical thing. With some people, it just works better. My bf is not my "type" physically. My type is Nicky Wire. My bf is 5ft7 and balding... but everything is great in bed. A weird connection.)
There's loads of aspects of a relationship. My bf is really tight, but it's not bothered me because we live separately. My ex husband was really generous, but dithered about and was always late for everything and generally got on my tits even though he was very kind.
You just have to keep looking. Or don't look. Wait a bit. You've got years ahead of you.

You sound lovely, OP.

My only advice is to be yourself. Don’t play games. The right girl is 100% out there. No rush.

Being single must suck so much during covid. But in another light - it’s a great time for reflecting on what you really want out of life and others will have been through similar.

Hang in there, it’s never too late.

No they won’t . There are many many women who prefer a man just like yourself
Do you always want to go after the prettiest woman in the room or do you look at deeper things ?
That should help you understand

I think it’s lovely that you have turned to here for advice. It’s also quite brave.

I think it’s worth emphasising that women are not a herd, so l will lay down some of my own “look fors”. I would also suggest that you are far from short. Aside from that, my sister is taller than her husband, l don’t see in issue there.

I would want someone who would treat my as an equal, share passion but give me space.

A person would have to be well groomed, in a casual way and smell nice. In particular, I’d want to have some interests to share, or a willingness to discover new interests together.

I’d want enough “wealth” that we could share the cost of a meal in a high street restaurant and maybe a weekend away in a chain hotel such as a Holiday Inn.

Importantly, l’d want to be invited back to a tidy home with a clean kitchen and nice bedding.

In the bedroom, l’d want plenty of foreplay (the very word “foreplay” so undermines the importance of it) with lots of oral.

This has all got quite heavy, so forgive me for ending on a light note please. When it comes to trousers off, please, no grey undetpants! 😂

Undetpants - underpants. Sorry x

Do you think all women are superficial and inevitably go for the taller & richer guy?
I don’t need a rich man- I make more than enough money myself.
A man saying he will ‘look after’ me would make me cringe tbh. I don’t want or need to be looked after by a man, I’m independent and can take care of myself.

Don’t over think it and try to be kind to your self

Personally, I think you're focusing too much on what is 'wrong' with you - put simply, there isn't anything wrong with you at all from what you describe. You sound like man many many women want to date, but that may not come until a bit later in life. Someone will come along, but don't try to change your behaviours to match the woman you're dating, they should like you for who you are.

i've read all of these comments and taken something away from each one. thank you so much to everyone who has responded!

From a mans perspective your height is not the problem. Far from it, 5ft 10 is an optimum height. There are many qualities that can make a guy attractive. Mostly confidence, kindness and a daft sense of humour will carry you a long way.
Keeping things light and simple when you meet someone is really important.
Its been an extraordinary time during lockdown where there hasn't been anything really positive to focus on. Unfortunately with all this negativity going on around us it can make us focus on what we believe to be our own negative qualities.
It can be a real circular thought trap.
Being taller with more money might make you attractive to a minority of gold diggers and superficial women but the majority of people don't subscribe to that at all.
There's far to many reality crap shit programmes on TV with specially selected empty airhead idiots playing their lives on screen for all to see. To some extent its bound to influence younger people. Keep away from it along with all the Housewives of Cheshire and everywhere shite flaunting their cash and perceived perfection.
Concentrate on having fun and focus on strengths. Learn to laugh more at life

5ft 10 is a good height. You sound grounded for a man of your age. If you are decent, respectful person and you move on and grow from the 'rejections' and are capable of self-reflection, you will eventually attract someone more or less like minded and suitable.

I think the main thing is to go for someone with the same set of core values. Don't settle on someone just because they like you or have shown an interest in you. Only build a relationship with someone who you feel safe and comfortable with.

Work on yourself & career for now and expect to have more luck in your 30s. Sorry.

Not everyone you date will be the one. But you can learn something from each relationship

You’re so young. In your shoes I’d focus on setting some goals for yourself and working to achieve them. They don’t need to be relationship focused. They can relate to career, health, hobbies, finance. A man with goals who is striving to achieve them is generally attractive to most women.

Also think about what you want in a partner and what is a dealbreaker for you.

You have plenty of time. And don’t be insecure about your height, it won’t be an issue for most women

The first thing to reframe in your head is 'woman' as a homogenous mass. Many men think there is some kind of secret magic key to unlocking all women, when there isn't. There are basic guidelines on how not to be a wanker, but other than that, we are individuals and so are highly variable. I've met some truly horrible women that I didn't get along with - do you think my requirements would be the same as hers?

5'10 is fine as a height. British men aren't particularly tall anyway, not like the Scandinavians or Dutch.

It's impossible to tell without meeting you, but you're either meeting women who are mainly after money (they like the fact you work in finance but are off to the next guy once they find someone richer). Or, there is some kind of incompatibility somewhere. For example, some people are very communicative and affectionate, whilst others are cooler and more distant. No one is right or wrong as such but this can cause issues. Other young women just want to have fun. They aren't invested in you as a person so they will dump you at the slightest hiccup.

Try looking at women in their late 20s maybe?

@llamakoala I don't know about that. This forum is often full of the worst of the worst. A man could come on here and easily think the sun must shine out of their arse just because they don't hit, scream or cheat on their partner, or just because they 'help' their partners with the housework every now and again.

The bar would be set extremely low if they based it on what's on here which could lead to entitlement, followed by self-pity and then resentment.

Many men think there is some kind of secret magic key to unlocking all women, when there isn't.

Agree with this. Many men just want a W.I.F.E. They're not really interested in love, respect and companionship.

Stop focusing on looks.
Women obviously are not a single entity. We all have our own checklist.

But generally speaking we want respect, consideration, a man who pulls his weight, not to be seen as a domestic appliance! Intelligence, good sense of humour, responsibility.

And maturity. Which if you see it all in terms of how you look and how much you earn, and a competition with other men to win the most shiny trophy is a huge problem with you.

It shows you see women as some sort of prize to win or lose in your completion for rank as a male, with a side of women are shallow gold diggers.

Agree with thinking of women as a homogenous mass. Deal with people/individuals first.
And it also sounds like you’re tempted to skirt the edge of this red pill nonsense to find answers.

That way lies madness

Yes to loads of comments here.

I'm 20 years older than you. When I was in my twenties, I wasn't interested in money or height, I just wanted someone I could go out and have fun with, who had a great mohawk and looked good in skinny black jeans

You need to be a fully rounded person with interests amd hobbies. You talk about superficial things (like height and looks) and things that men stereotypically think women are interested in (eg jobs in finance).

I want someone who will take an interest in me and my life, who has interests they can share with me. Someone with a similar social attitude to me. Ideally between 5'4 and 5'9. I don't care about how good looking someone is. I'm interested in fully developed, well rounded men I can form a mutual relationship with.

I don't want to be 'looked after'.

Work on being the best version of you rather than conforming to what you think women want and you will find someone who values you and not superficial fripperies.

my goodness, this has all been very eye opening. It must be something to do with the fact I haven't met any new girls in a year, due to lockdown. I'm starting to see that I really have fallen prey to stereotypes.

In addition to that, I've really taken on board the idea that I need to work on me first, my own goals and hobbies. Also gained some really interesting insights into what makes a successful relationship from the girls perspective! (which I'm beginning to realise is the same as the guy's!)

I'm pretty sure most of us have been dumped/ghosted a few times so it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.

Make sure you aren't just looking for someone attractive to fit the 'girlfriend' role.

In my 20s I bought a house with my boyfriend at the time and looking back, we really just didn't have much in common apart from initial attraction. I'm an introvert, he's extroverted. Different interests and values.

I spent most of my 20s tying myself in knots trying to get things to work because I thought that was what I was supposed to do. I think both of us would have been better off spending our 20s single, figuring ourselves out and figuring out what we were really looking for in a partner.

Agree with PP that you should focus on yourself, your interests and having fun for now. It's a cliche but women will want to settle down more as you get towards 30. Make your 20s something fun to look back on (like I wish I had).