Dating a widower - too soon

[Despairsometimes123]

So I’ve been chatting to someone online who said his wife died about 4 months ago. He said she been ill for about 12 years and the for the last few years could not be treated so he knew the wind was coming.He wants to meet up but I can’t help but feel a bit uncomfortable about it being so soon after his poor wife passed away.
Any thoughts?

I have reported your post as it is vile.

Be warned @Despairsometimes123 - that is the kind of attitude the man you are chatting with will face going forward, and you will as well if you date him.

@JustLyra

I didn't say you didn't know about loss. I said you have no idea how you'd react if your DH died. That is fact. You don't. No-one does.

Even if you have suffered loss before you have no idea how you'd react.

Perhaps you should be less offensive and word what you say more carefully. I won't be engaging with you again.

Other people who have lost partner DO know I have IN FACT lost a partner Perhaps YOU should be more careful about making assumptions and consider why others might hold the views they do

@JustLyra

I have reported your post as it is vile.

Be warned @Despairsometimes123 - that is the kind of attitude the man you are chatting with will face going forward, and you will as well if you date him.

No the only thing that is vile is your rude and aggressive attitude here .

You compared men who move on after being widowed to men who use prostitutes. Your post was vile.

I'm sorry for your loss. That does not mean you know how you would react a second time. It also doesn't mean that you know how everyone should or would react.

I did not react to losing a second child in remotely the same way as I did my first. Grief hits you differently. I also wouldn't judge people who reacted differently either time.

This is now getting very out of hand so I won't be opening the thread again. There was absolutely no need for you to twist my post. None at all.

@Despairsometimes123 although I personally would not date this man at this point , this means nothing about whether you should or not
I have a friend who has been in your position and I support her decision fully . It’s individual
Simply because I said that some men see women as commodities that does not mean all . It’s individual and he may be nothing like that
You asked for peoples thoughts and you’ll get a variety of responses .
Either way I wish you all the best

@JustLyra

You compared men who move on after being widowed to men who use prostitutes. Your post was vile.

I'm sorry for your loss. That does not mean you know how you would react a second time. It also doesn't mean that you know how everyone should or would react.

I did not react to losing a second child in remotely the same way as I did my first. Grief hits you differently. I also wouldn't judge people who reacted differently either time.

This is now getting very out of hand so I won't be opening the thread again. There was absolutely no need for you to twist my post. None at all.

No I did not compare

I gave examples of how I see women being viewed as commodities by some men
I drew NO correlation between the use of prostitutes and men being widowed ! I drew no connection because there is none .

Have you done much study or had much experience in text deconstruction?
Additionally , at no time did I say I knew how everyone felt .
There is only one person who twisted words here and it wasn’t me
I agree that the conversation between us in fruitless because you seem determined to misunderstand me

@Washingtofold I have to disagree with you that you would know how your partner would react if you died, because you haven't died, ergo it's only speculation. Even if they told you they intended to remarry within a month, until they are in that position they can't know themselves what they would do, and you wouldn't know anyway because you would be dead.

I've lost my DH too. I don't intend ever dating again, but that's a personal choice that I had no idea I would make until I lost DH. In theory while he was alive, we discussed whether I would remarry and he said he wanted me to do what made me happy. But now my reality is being widowed, I don't think I could be as happy with anyone else as I was with him so I don't intend to put it to the test.

I think that is the point @JustLyra was making - that your own opinions and experiences can only reflect you and your decisions, and as everyone grieves differently, you may notice a pattern in your circle of friends/family, but it's not necessarily reflective of people in general. I don't think it's fair to say men view women as replaceable or as commodities, there's a lot of assumptions going on there about motivation, when perhaps it's more complex for men, particularly those with younger children, who are given the message (by others and the media) that their children need a mother, it's not usual for a man to bring up children alone, and other such consensi.

[quote VienneseWhirligig]@Washingtofold I have to disagree with you that you would know how your partner would react if you died, because you haven't died, ergo it's only speculation. Even if they told you they intended to remarry within a month, until they are in that position they can't know themselves what they would do, and you wouldn't know anyway because you would be dead.

I've lost my DH too. I don't intend ever dating again, but that's a personal choice that I had no idea I would make until I lost DH. In theory while he was alive, we discussed whether I would remarry and he said he wanted me to do what made me happy. But now my reality is being widowed, I don't think I could be as happy with anyone else as I was with him so I don't intend to put it to the test.

I think that is the point @JustLyra was making - that your own opinions and experiences can only reflect you and your decisions, and as everyone grieves differently, you may notice a pattern in your circle of friends/family, but it's not necessarily reflective of people in general. I don't think it's fair to say men view women as replaceable or as commodities, there's a lot of assumptions going on there about motivation, when perhaps it's more complex for men, particularly those with younger children, who are given the message (by others and the media) that their children need a mother, it's not usual for a man to bring up children alone, and other such consensi.[/quote]
Yes I absolutely agree I don’t KNOW how my partner would react if I died . I said I suspect he would but only because he is a person who is not one to like being alone and he has said he would probably remarry in a year . That makes me think he would likely remarry earlier
As for me saying I feel like SOME men , perhaps even many see women as commodities I must say I stand by that simply because of the way women are treated in society .
Whether or not that is the reason some men remarry early would be speculation obviously
My thing was that I was saying it makes ME feel depressed to see how women are often seen as replaceable in various scenarios . Of course this doesn’t mean that every remarriage is be an example of this !!!
I certainly understand that people have different motivations , reasons and that people fall in love , children the whole lot as you say.

I just really felt totally attacked misunderstood and that my words were entirely twisted by Lyra . She started making links between prostitute use and men remarrying which was NOTHING to do with what I was saying . Satiny I was calling her a commodity and calling me names
If at any time I said all men see women this way
All remarriages are this way or whatever I’d understand but I didn’t

My best friend's husband died after 18 months of his MND diagnosis. It was a terrible illness and he had clearly been ill for 6 months before that. She met her boyfriend 2 months later. They are madly in love and have been together for 16 months now. Very, very happy. But in saying that he has been amazing about not being jealous and insisting that all photos stay up etc as he inderstands the importance to her children, and also her.

Way too soon...stay away before you become his emotional crutch

@Rainbowqueeen

I wouldn’t simply because my feelings are important to me ( just as important as his are) and my feelings about it being too soon would impact on our time together too much.

Exactly this. The man may feel completely ready, but the OP’s feelings are equally valid.

I have two contrasting personal experiences of this. I'll set them out.. there's a sort of conclusion I draw but that is probably based on the individual men rather than generally applicable. I'm still figuring it all out myself tbh.

Widower 1: My former father in law (who I don't like anyway. racist, homophobic, domineering etc). His wife of 45 years died unexpectedly of an unknown stomach ulcer. He was pursuing replacement candidates at the golf club within 6 weeks of her funeral and had identified and was dating his replacement second wife within 12 weeks. I do think he falls into a category of men who see women as useful commodities - as said above like the car breaks down you go get a new one. Also paradoxically, despite his usual dominance and superiority, he was clearly completely disempowered, invalidated and unbearably vulnerable on his own. He was rudderless. Weird really- like he needed a woman to validate him despite being a misogynist.

Widower 2: My current partner. Also widowed suddenly in his 50s after 20+ years of marriage. He started on line dating after about 18 months. Met me after 2 years. One of the things I like about him is he loved being married, cherished his wife and still clearly pines for her. But of course that is not without difficulty. I oscillate between admiring him so much for the devotion he has/ had to his wife but also feeling that his love for her is so great that I'm not sure where our relationship can go.

So my tentative conclusion ( which I may be flamed for) is that generally speaking some of the men who move on faster may be the misogynistic ones or the vulnerable ones. But that's only based on a sample of two.
I think when dating a widow or widower you have to do what feels right and if it feels too soon maybe don't date as such. Try slow friendship first? With my partner I know he found his first sexual encounter after his wife died very difficult.. So it's almost easier to be the second person who comes along. However logic is only of limited use in these matters...

@lonelyplanetmum

Yes that’s what I was saying also in my post or trying to at least
Not that all men who remarry are mysogynistic or see women as commodities but that there are some who do and that is witnessed by other things that happen with these men in society

Yeah I wouldn't touch this situation with a barge pole. He may have grieved while his wife was alive but in reality he watched someone he has cared for, been married to, had children with, built a life with die only 16 weeks ago.
I'm sure alot of his grief like feelings were experienced while his wife was alive but unwell, some sense of acceptance would've also been gained but there is no way he would be anywhere near ompleting that journey/process already. I get he is probably very lonely and is craving intamacy and comfort and all of those other things his wife being so poorly robbed them of but I wouldn't want to be with someone just for that reason. I think if someone was separated such a short time after such a long relationship I wouldn't even consider getting involved, add to that the additional complications and heartbreak of this situation and it's a definite no from me, it's got heartbreak written all over it.

I went on a date with a widower. His wife had died a few years previously and he had already got engaged to a woman who then did a runner overnight, despite a wedding planned.
During our date, he spoke endlessly about his wife. He clearly wasn't over her and just wanted to fill the void that she had left.
Bless him.

@Despairsometimes123

Sorry, but I think it’s a minefield.

Grieving in those circumstances doesn’t stop when his wife died, even though it may have been a blessing when she finally passed away.

If you were to date him regularly, what will you “say” to his friends and family and yours? I want to use the word “justify”, but that’s too strong, perhaps “explain”?

Do you want to be a bereavement counsellor?

I have a friend who went on holiday with a widower she met OLD. They went to his and his former wife’s holiday home in Spain, and although he insisted it would be fine he cracked up while there, and had a sort of breakdown, and she had to cut it short and fly him home.

I once went out with a married woman, met OLD, once. She was careful to first explain her husband had Alzheimers, and had suffered with it for some years, and she was setting up the next phase of her life. She told me she had already had another relationship outside her marriage, so although I wasn’t comfortable with it I did go out with her. But our second date didn’t happen as arranged -she called me to defer, because her husband had just died. She was a real mess, as is to be expected. I decided I didn’t want to take it any further, but never heard from her again anyway.

I subsequently had a long relationship (over 4 years) with a widow whose husband had died about 6 years before. She took great care to integrate me into her immediate family and big in-law family. She had prepared them all to the fact that she would be OLD. I consider myself very tolerant, but had to deal with the fact of her home being full of photos of her marriage and even being taken to her husband’s grave and being shown the empty space where she would be buried next to him.

I'm a young widow. I haven't met anyone since my husband died, but I hope I'm not on my own for the rest of my life.
I've found one of the hardest part of dealing with the death of a spouse is the realisation of your own mortality and emerging from grief with the wish to carry on and live, hopefully a long and happy life. I'll always love my husband - but he isn't here any more. It doesn't mean I'll never love anyone else.
Unfortunately a lot of people have very clear ideas about what's appropriate, and what they'd do in your shoes. There is a lot of judgement out there.

Men tend to go straight into another relationship. i wouldn't feel very flattered if a man wanted to go out with me so soon after his wifes death. I can imagine any children would be outraged.
Too complicated for me but you might feel differently.

My aunt set my uncle up with one of her friends before she died. She spoke to her children and told them that she wanted him to be happy and felt her friend would be good for him. The children were uneasy but honoured their mum’s wishes and she has been a loving member of our family for 2 decades. Our uncle would have managed by himself but she wanted him to have company in his retirement.