Male Point of View please.....

[whatstheworsethatcanhappen]

So my relationship has been pretty poor over the last couple of years (lack of communication and affection) things have got worse this year - I think Covid highlighting what is missing. I have to say we have never been a romantic couple (but I don't think romance and closeness are the same things) but i'm pretty sure we did use to talk a lot more (compared to barely anything now).
Finally bit the bullet and we attended a couples counselling session yesterday. I found the counsellor abit harsh (towards me) yet not towards my partner which has left me wondering if what I'm after is ridiculous / unachievable? I've left the session more confused than before.
I basically said I wanted my partner to show an interest in my life, my work etc and to talk to me more as a person (at the moment, all we talk about is the kids). I said we are lacking physical intimacy as I feel like we are like strangers with each other and I lack self esteem.
Counsellors point is that my partner hasn't particularly changed but my needs have ( I don't completely disagree with this). Partner's excuse is that he finds talking draining / tiring.....
I'd like a male point of view on whether what I'm asking for is too much?

You're not asking for too much, but the parameters of the relationship have changed. You are not wrong to feel this way, if the partner loves you they should be happy to make a change to reach these new parameters, when in situations like this before the only reason I ever didn't want to make the change was because I felt like I was now being judged for a relationship that was acceptable now suddenly the goalposts have moved.
I would say, acknowledge you are moving the goalposts but simply be firm with "this is now what I am looking for, is it something you can provide?" if he cannot then fine, at least you were candid, honest and adult about it, if he reacts badly then he needs to realise people change, relationships are malleable.

Not a male. But really, what does it matter what other men think? What matters is what you think. What matters is what you need from a relationship.

(FWIW wanting someone to be interested in your life is a pretty basic thing to want. If your partner finds it draining to take an interest in your life then I think that tells you pretty much all you need to know. I doubt your needs have changed that must. I mean, you can't have talked about the kids before you had kids. Presumably you talked about each other's lives then? And also FWIW a lot of counsellors are crap and you may just have a crap one).

I’m not a male either and am wondering why you are placing so much importance on what men think in particular . Men will not necessarily have any more insight on relationship dynamics than women and this question effectively comes down to whether you are being unreasonable in asking for more support in your relationship
You mention that you have changed and that your partner has not .

People do change . At least most of us do . Our needs, knowledge and relationship skills and understanding of ourselves and our partner hopefully grow . At different stages of our lives we may require some more support or depth and it is not unreasonable to expect our partners to make some effort if we are communicating this.
Relationships are not about stagnating and trying to maintain ourselves at the same maturity and level we were at when we first met . Otherwise many of us may remain eternally 18 maturity wise and I can tell you right now that an 18 yr old mentality is unlikely to meet the emotional needs of a 50 year old
Surely your counsellor understands that ?
Perhaps you could raise the issue of relationships growth development and the effort to support one another
It’s not about perfection but I suspect that you might be happy to even see an effort made ?

I second also that plenty of counsellors are crap , especially ones who are coming from religiously biased gender perspectives

Counsellors point is that my partner hasn't particularly changed but my needs have

Have your needs really changed? Everyone wants to love and be loved, to appreciate and be appreciated. Now the form that takes in each relationship will vary, but I’d be surprised if your needs have changed. I’d say they’ve been sidelined for a while and you’ve got into a rut that isn’t working for you and you are now recognise that and raising it as an issue. But I don’t think your needs have changed. They were always there but ignored. And I don’t think you should feel like you are wrong for wanting to be treated as a person.

@Mycatismadeofstringcheese

Counsellors point is that my partner hasn't particularly changed but my needs have

Have your needs really changed? Everyone wants to love and be loved, to appreciate and be appreciated. Now the form that takes in each relationship will vary, but I’d be surprised if your needs have changed. I’d say they’ve been sidelined for a while and you’ve got into a rut that isn’t working for you and you are now recognise that and raising it as an issue. But I don’t think your needs have changed. They were always there but ignored. And I don’t think you should feel like you are wrong for wanting to be treated as a person.

Yes I also agree this is very likely

But also, even if they have changed . Maybe the counsellor can explain why people are not expected to grow and are expected to have the exact same needs as say a newly wed who may be childless to someone a decade on with kids to someone going through menopause or a medical issue or whatever
Why does the counsellor think it’s so wrong for us to grow and for our relationships to evolve
When I was studying psychology in my younger years one of the requirements was some counselling subjects. I never in any time was told that we must remain stagnant unchangable people. In fact it was quite the opposite

Yes fair enough. People don’t stay the same. Regardless of the reasons your needs aren’t being met in the relationship now and that’s what needs to be addressed.

Hope counsellor becomes a bit more useful in helping you to address that.

Thanks for those replies, you're all probably right. I don't really think my needs have changed but they aren't being met. I suppose the part of me that is changed is that I'm no longer happy with making do with our pretty shitty relationship.
I was asking for Male POV as my friends are all female and are agreeing with me, and I wasn't sure if I'm being unrealistic (as a female) in thinking that a man would be bothered with these things.
We have a form to fill in - favourite memories together, how my partner shows appreciation - it's pretty blank!
Think I'll ditch the counsellor. People do change, I'm not the same person I was 13 yrs ago. Our situation has changed and I've grown. When I was 21 I thought you needed to create a family unit (2 adults + kids), the older I get the less I think this standard is required. I definitely don't feel the need to be with anyone anymore.
At least I've managed to get things out in the open with my partner, Something I haven't managed to do previously. Will try and talk more tonight and see how it goes ....

@Dontcallmewifey

Not a male. But really, what does it matter what other men think? What matters is what you think. What matters is what you need from a relationship.

(FWIW wanting someone to be interested in your life is a pretty basic thing to want. If your partner finds it draining to take an interest in your life then I think that tells you pretty much all you need to know. I doubt your needs have changed that must. I mean, you can't have talked about the kids before you had kids. Presumably you talked about each other's lives then? And also FWIW a lot of counsellors are crap and you may just have a crap one).

Yes, draining to talk to people. Made me laugh as he says he thinks I get all my emotional support from my friends and family who I speak to on the phone ... so apparently he doesn't then need to bother asking how I am?!!

Do you try and talk to him during University Challenge? It's the only show i insist on watching each week and that's when my wife decides she'd like a chat. Don't interrupt university challenge would be my advice

On a serious note though, being male is not a reason to not care about you and what you're up to. The amount of chatter may not be the same, but the interest should be there

Not a male but talking is a massive part of a relationship with me. Without that there is no closeness or intimacy and the relationship dies.

Amongst other issues , there was little talking in my last long term relationship. I made sure when dating to stress how important it is to me.

I think your needs sound entirely reasonable and what anyone might expect in a relationship. I think the focus on 'change' means - why are these things emerging now if it wasn't a strong aspect of your relationship. I doubt your needs have changed - and that it's more likely that what you received has reduced since the beginning from just enough to not quite enough interest and affection. Also, it's quite likely you've been suffering in silence for some time. So it's not that something has recently happened to change things.

But take heart, it is very much easier for a woman to have these needs validated than it is for men in the same position. Men are usually told that being needy is repellent, and makes things worse, whereas staying silent might (but probably won't) make a difference.

I am a man, (but not married any more), but here’s my 2p worth.

When I was married my wife used to come home and unload her day on me (he said this, she said that etc, etc) and I used to listen, but she never listened to me, she just used to walk off if I talked about anything that had happened to me, I felt I used being used as an emotional dumping ground

I found Being ignored is pretty unpleasant, she was so wrapped up her own world that somehow I became 2nd best (not sure that’s the right phrase )
End of communication
End of intimacy
End of marriage

Talking to someone isn’t draining, but they need to respond to you, and not just with platitudes and not jump into the next thing that happened to them that day.

@Cruddles

Do you try and talk to him during University Challenge? It's the only show i insist on watching each week and that's when my wife decides she'd like a chat. Don't interrupt university challenge would be my advice

Ha! That did make me laugh. I'm quite good, I don't attempt to talk during football etc.

Its indicative of a familiar pattern that so many couples end up in. You tend to grow together or apart, unfortunate how familiarity starts to breed contempt.
Its very important to keep talking and to be interested in each otherwise whats the point.
Reversing the trend is the hard part, at least your husband has engaged in that with counselling.
A good Councillor should give you some ideas and goals to work towards in-between sessions.

I’m not sure ditching the therapist after one session because they didn’t say what you wished to hear isn’t a great idea. Therapy is about understanding both sides. Not just yours. Your posts are all about your needs. None about his. There is nothing about how he feels, what his needs are. You’re never going to find a therapist who just agrees with you and focuses on you. Unless you go on your own and find a crap one.

Playing devils advocate here - is it possible that the counsellor recognised that your partner isn’t as engaged in the relationship/counselling as you are and was trying to make him feel validated so that he’s more open to criticism or critically examining his own behaviour later?

Not being heard, not having any attention, that’s not a partnership. And for me a relationship should be exactly that, a partnership where you each bring something to the table, and over time that may change with experience, life events, career progression, health. It’s vital that you talk about things so you feel included. If the counsellor and your partner can’t see that then I have to say I’d ditch the pair of them!

@JustAnotherOldMan to be fair the things I'd like to talk to him about are quite positive things - my business doing well, I've started a new college course - just general chit chat. If I want a moan, I normally just chat with my friends so I don't think i've been using him as a dumping ground. I do always ask how he is, how was work and the common response is 'Fine' / 'Okay' so I have / do try to get a conversation going ....

@Bluntness100 you're right, there was a lot to take in from the session and i don't remember him saying he was unhappy / happy etc. He said he doesn't really feel emotion (get excited or sad about things). He says he's happy ferrying our kids around, says that he's happy to put his life on hold to raise kids (and work). I do want to know what he thinks, I'm well aware that neither of us are getting anything out of this relationship except I cook and he washes up....
Unsure about therapist, obviously not expecting her to agree with me on everything but I didn't think I was asking for too much ..... but got the impression I was being unreasonable maybe I am?

@Rainbowshine not sure, he did join in and answered all the questions. I said I felt like I wasn't getting anything out the relationship at the moment (except a roof over my head). I don't remember her asking him the same question or I don't remember his response. There was a lot to take in and I can't remember it all unfortunately.
I agree, I think it's important to talk too.

@Marineboy67 the Counsellor has set tasks which I think will help - to talk for max 15 mins a couple of times a week, and then she's sent a sheet with questions asking about our favourite memories together, how he/she shows appreciation, and how we value each other - feeling very stuck on it! The two memories that come to mind straight away (just involving the two of us) are pre kids when we were walking on the beach and he thought it would be funny to throw a jelly fish at me ... hilarious for him, not me. And the next one is when he gave me mouldy toast to eat when I was pregnant (because I wasn't well, but he couldn't be arsed making food - he hates cooking). I'm sure there are happier memories somewhere because I don't think he's a complete nob, but really struggling to find any good ones at the moment ....

If someone asked me how work was, I would probably say “fine” or “boring” to be more truthful..

You also mentioned that your business is doing well and your starting a new college course, that all sounds exciting.
And your husband is ferrying the kids around, that sounds a bit boring, could it be that he’s just bored with his lot in life ?

@JustAnotherOldMan to be fair I too ferry the kids around, most of the childcare is my responsibility. He said he’s happy to put his life on hold for the kids ... I have tried to encourage him to do things, go out more but he doesn’t want to. He’s not said he’s unhappy (I’ve asked him this previously) I think he genuinely enjoys working (60hr week - his choice, not mine) and running kids round.

He says he's happy ferrying our kids around, says that he's happy to put his life on hold to raise kids (and work)

I have no idea what this means? The best time of our lives was when the kids were younger. Our lives were not on hold they were wonderful.

Counsellors are no different than anyone else, some good and some not so good. You have to find one that clicks with you which is not easy at times.

I agree that if you feel that you are making all of the running conversationally then it is not a stretch to think that it is somewhat onesided.