Mid-marriage woes?

[Crossroads99]

I'd really appreciate some perspective on this so will try to keep it brief.

DH and I are both mid-50s, been married 20 years and have 2 dc. We have been through huge amounts of emotional, legal, family and financial turmoil - it would take up pages of MN to explain, so I'll skip most of it.

But anyway, the crux of the matter is that our relationship is not what it once was, with both of us blaming each other for what is happening. He says I'm controlling and belittle him to the point he says he has contemplated suicide. He feels that he and dc are not allowed opinions of their own.

I am so saddened, shocked and hurt by this, especially as I feel that I live for my family and always strive to make our lives better together.

My feelings are that he blows up at the smallest annoyance and that I constantly tread on eggshells trying not to provoke him.
Yes, there are things that I find annoying, like his inability to make the smallest decision without checking with me. Eg the perpetual what's for dinner question....After to-ing and fro-img with, you choose, you choose, you choose, I'm told I'm a bully when we go with my choice.

So this morning's drama was so mundane yet so bizarre. He was making toast for dd and I told him she wanted jam. He said I gave him 'a look' which made him feel he'd done it wrong and I was criticising him. I know this sounds ridiculous. He then he went into a tirade of how I spoiled his day, how I'm always belittling him and how he feels he can't do anything right....

He blames the menopause for me being boring, anxious and unloving. I can hardly remember the last time we hugged or had sex (which used to be great btw). But apparently it's all my fault.
We have come out of yet another very trying time which I know hasn't helped, and we also have a very time consuming business which also takes it toll.

I am totally not giving up with my marriage, but feel we are stuck in a horrible half-way house with a lot of resentment on both sides.
Does anyone have any advice how to work through this kind of mid-marriage crisis? Counselling?

It sounds like he's gaslighting you.
Is everything your fault? Does he ever take responsibility for his part in disagreements?

Just sit down talk AND listen to him.

Get dinner, bottle of wine and start by saying "sorry about the toast topping prompt yesterday I am stuck in bad habits of trying to make everything ok for everyone it's draining and annoying.". Because prompting toast topping might be annoying, not to the extent it should ruin someone's entire day that is another extreme.

See what he says and responds to you.

I would say @frozendaisy offers some advice rarely on here and what is, common sense advice

Definitely marriage counselling.

I would be wary of joint counselling, tbh. I think you would be better off with solo counselling, at least for now. Explore whether you genuinely are being annoying or, as a pp mentioned, there is some gaslight ING going on. It seems as if he's constantly trying to trip you up.

Yes it sounds like you’re both a bit stuck in this dynamic and could do with some support to work through this. Counselling would probably help you both work out what you want.

Thanks ladies, I'm taking this on board.

DH always jokes (but not jokes) that because I'm a teacher, that I expect everybody to follow my rules. Yes, I like cups on one side of the dishwasher and glasses on the other - isn't that what most folk do? But I give up in 'discussions' because I might as well not bother, he just states the same thing over and over so I just shut up.

The constant feeling that I don't do enough in our business is draining me of emotion. I put in a lot of time and effort, to the detriment of a normal active life outside our home and marriage. Yes, it provides well for us - but at a cost, I know we need to work on having a better balance.

The youngest dd heads off to uni in September and instead of thinking of all the exciting times we can look forward to, I'm starting to dread it.

So, something else to explore is whether the marriage can be saved. Do you think your H would be willing to work on it, too?

I found a book called The Rough Patch by daphne de marneffe quite good to explore exactly this topic, mid marriage. We divorced... But the book was helpful!

It is so so draining to have someone constantly 'advise' on how to do normal everyday things like how to load a dishwasher or what topping to put on toast. It's also probably horrible for you that he blames a lot on you and communication is tense. I think it does sound like you have both developed some bad habits and a tit for tat situation has arisen. Talk and listen to each other.

We were in a similar situation and have been married a similar length of time too. I think you'll need help to unpick what's going on for both of you and it's not going to happen overnight. We were very fortunate to find an excellent marriage counsellor and things are so much better now.

I think your situation is very common. You’re micromanaging your H and that will piss him off. Most people don’t tell their adult spouse what to put on toast or how to load the dishwasher. No doubt he’s doing other equally irritating things. DH and I both have a tendency to micro-manage in different ways and we can really irritate each other.

But it’s all very fixable if the will is there. Firstly, stop blaming each other. Nobody is perfect and no relationship is perfect. And yes, counselling sounds like it could be very helpful for getting into better habits of communication.

Firstly, I am sorry your marriage is going through this. It takes two to get it to a difficult place. You say your husband feels that you control and belittle him? Can you really step back and have a good look at how you run your home and life? Is it micromanaged like the dishwasher cups and plates? How often do you tell him what to put on toast? What would happen if you stopped all the details like this and allowed the relationship to breathe without rules and regulations. I have no doubt you got to this place because your husband may have been lazy or couldn’t be bothered with how a household is run. I can see resentment from both sides. You are putting in a lot of effort which eats in to your personal/social time. This could be fixed if you got help and really sat down and listened to each other.

I think you both need to start with a bit more trust and kindness. At the moment each of you harbour not only resentment for the others irritating ways, but distrust that there is genuine affection.
He 'blows up' every so often because there is no affection or intimacy in your relationship- it's just what happens when people suppress an overwhelming feeling of persistant rejection.
Has there been cheating on either side OP? I only ask because that is how trust is eroded - especially in what you describe of your relationship where it is suspected but not confronted or resolved, Has he or you aired suspicion?
Counselling is what is needed but you both need to start from a better place in regard to trust.

Do you recognise some of what he says?

Being told your are controlling is hard to hear but from what he is saying, it sounds like you have always “worn the trousers” in the relationship and made the decisions. This can eat away at the other person to the point where they are hardly capable of making simple decisions.

@Crossroads99

Thanks ladies, I'm taking this on board.

DH always jokes (but not jokes) that because I'm a teacher, that I expect everybody to follow my rules. Yes, I like cups on one side of the dishwasher and glasses on the other - isn't that what most folk do? But I give up in 'discussions' because I might as well not bother, he just states the same thing over and over so I just shut up.

The constant feeling that I don't do enough in our business is draining me of emotion. I put in a lot of time and effort, to the detriment of a normal active life outside our home and marriage. Yes, it provides well for us - but at a cost, I know we need to work on having a better balance.

The youngest dd heads off to uni in September and instead of thinking of all the exciting times we can look forward to, I'm starting to dread it.

No I don't care where things go or what order or if the Mr does chores (I wish! ) "different" to me. It's not important in the grand scheme of things cups and glasses get clean either side of the dishwasher.

Don't get me wrong I do kick off. But I kick off about big stuff, not engaging in family life, playing stupid games on your mobile, distraction basically. We discussed our expectations of each other as parents and spouses and we revisit them, they do morph over time.

It's good to "check in" with each other. Ask "you ok?" Ask as an adult spouse who loves them not a co-parent, family member or a friend. How many times have I checked in with "you ok at work because your wage is vital to this household but you are more important" ......just keeping those conversation roads open.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, it doesn't even have to be difficult. It can be hard, upsetting but enlightening at the same time.

I hate this expression but it sums it up (oh god I apologize in advance ) "growing together" there I typed it! Need a cringe lie down now!

Oh and I, and he, if we are being knobs or in the wrong or just mistaken, always, always always, say sorry to each other. It's not a one way street, I'm not a doormat. But if I am wrong or my words/actions caused unnecessary upset I will apologize and mean it.

This has been very helpful and has highlighted a lot of what is going on. I know we both show our tricky personalities at times, and the communication needs to improve big time.

Thankfully there is absolutely no chance of an affair. But possibly another twist is that there has been a shift in our sexual dynamic. For quite a few years we have often enjoyed the 'company' of another couple or man, meeting through a well known swingers site. He was always more into it than me, but I'll admit that I have had some very enjoyable times! Since lockdown, this obviously changed and I have decided that it isn't something that I'm comfortable with any more.

So, I feel that he is taking his annoyance out on me by being resentful. He thinks I have lost my sex drive due to the menopause, but really I just want to build our intimacy together. We are struggling to have what we had on our own, and it is an issue.

Right now, I'd rather snuggle on the sofa with the cats than with him. And he's happy with his sofa and the paper.... a bumbling co-existence, but not satisfying.

Frozendaisy
'No I don't care where things go or what order or if the Mr does chores (I wish! ) "different" to me. It's not important in the grand scheme of things cups and glasses get clean either side of the dishwasher.

Don't get me wrong I do kick off. But I kick off about big stuff, not engaging in family life, playing stupid games on your mobile, distraction basically. We discussed our expectations of each other as parents and spouses and we revisit them, they do morph over time.*'
*
This is totally your perspective though on what you find important. I wouldn't live with anyone who didn't do their share of the chores. I am not here to do 100% of the housework just because I am the wife. That would be a total deal breaker for me so I actually consider that a big issue.

Whereas I don't mind my husband playing games on his phone as down time. I don't see it checking out of family life.

Interesting.

I think you are are on different pages at the moment OP. I reckon some outside perspective (counselling) would be really helpful as sometime some structured discussion time is really needed. We're rubbish at that and it's so easy to let it drift.

@NoPrivateSpy ........I am a stay at home, just to clarify, the Mr earns all the cash. Works for us, not for others. So no he doesn't do any housework as such but does do home jobs and dad jobs!

And if course he can play on his phone or whatever but if it starts to overtake all his time at home, as it has in the past, getting distracted for "hours and hours" and hours and weekends, then yes it is brought up. But he trusts me that when it is brought up it's for a good reason. And that's how it works here, he trusts that if I talk to him about something it's important, or perhaps it isn't and I have misinterpreted it and visa versa, but neither of us are ever dismissive of each other's concerns or feel we can't say anything about anything.

Honestly my post wasn't about specific actions within a relationship they were just examples it was more about communication within your personal set-up.

(Just to clarify if I worked or when I do chores will be split accordingly). Which has also been discussed.

Sounds like he is pissed at you because you no longer want to have threesomes. Maybe in his head you are ruining his life and this is coming out in other ways. Unless this is to restart he will probably only get worse. If I were you this is the discussion you need to be having and if he's not happy with this arrangement ending he needs to go elsewhere.

Yeah, it's stopping swinging - he's upset about it.

While you shouldn't do anything in bed you don't want to, from his point of view you've moved the goalposts and gone home with the ball.

Threesomes! That's bound to have changed your dynamic especially if it's no longer for you. I suspect he tolerated your criticisms (no most people don't stress over where glasses and cups get put, or tell their partner to add jam for a nearly adult child!) and no longer feels your relationship is in balance.

It is absolutely reasonable for you to change your mind over adding external parties to your sex life however it might have been the glue that held you together in an unhealthy dynamic. I think you would benefit from counselling but it's worth trying to talk and see if he is open to discussing his feelings. Your relationship has to be reset so that you reestablish healthy dynamics and intimacy based on just you two.

Sounds like he could be depressed. Constant sniping at you about minor things is a sign, but as others have said it is also a sign of sexual frustration. If I find myself tempted to niggle about minor things with my DW it's a sign that I need to initiate.

As other have said, you shouldn't make major changes to your sex life without discussing them and explaining your reasons to your OH. Obviously you should not feel pressured into doing anything you are not comfortable with but imposing a major change for no obvious reason (as your DP would see it) is bound to lead to frustration.

@frozendaisy

Just sit down talk AND listen to him.

Get dinner, bottle of wine and start by saying "sorry about the toast topping prompt yesterday I am stuck in bad habits of trying to make everything ok for everyone it's draining and annoying.". Because prompting toast topping might be annoying, not to the extent it should ruin someone's entire day that is another extreme.

See what he says and responds to you.

This. @Crossroads99 To be honest from your original post OP, it's clear that we're only hearing your side of the story and some posters have naturally jumped on limited detail you provided in order to blame your husband (some posters on this forum will automatically blame any male in any situation anyway)

You need to listen to him and actually give him proper time to build trust with you again that you genuinely care about how he's feeling and his perspective. I very much doubt all the blame lies with him. Marital issues are often much more compex and is where marriage counselling is absolutely key. No one on mumsnet can give you proper advice because we don't know all of the issues in the marriage (understandably you're unable to detail them all). For all we know one thing may have been omitted by you that you personally don't feel is significant but that actually changes the perspective on everything. Also no marriage can continue without empathy and forgiveness on both sides.

All the best