She is not interested

[daddk]

Hi,

I am a man (48) married with my wife (43) for 13 years and we have been together for 23 years. We have three great kids (11, 9 and 6).

Sex and affection seem to have disappeared from our relationship and I am not sure we can get it back on track!? It is complex but I will try to explain it from my point of view and I would be grateful for any thoughts or advice.

We have always had different needs when it comes to affections and sex. I have always wanted more sex than her and have always been the one to initiate it. It has always been an issue that I have brought up from time to time but she has never reacted on this.

We did have sex and we had three wonderful children but sex was pushed in the background and became even less important to her. We had issues with 2 of the children often coming into our bed, which was not helpful. Bedtimes were difficult to manage so it was often 9-10 before they were all in bed and grownup time was none existent and often a child in bed.

Our interest in sex had always been an issue but in 2019 I really started trying to talk to her about it. Trying to find the time to talk about it. Trying not to blame her (which was difficult). Trying to say that I really wanted to talk about this when she felt the time was right. Sending her messages trying to explain how I was feeling and how the lack of sex was affecting me. We probably had sex on average once a month but I did not feel she was really into it. Her affection in general was disappearing as well. There was always other things that was more important than sex. Children’s sports activities, children’s school work, cleaning of the house, time to ourselves. She would still say “maybe tomorrow we can we can have some time together”, but something always seemed to get in the way. When we finally had the bed to ourselves I would be wishing for sex but I could quickly sense that she was not in the mood. We would talk about something but she would fall asleep while we talked. Or she would cuddle up with no intentions of taking it any further than the cuddle. My wife is not working so she is responsible for taking the children to and from school. She will clean the house and she would spend a lot of time taking the kids to sports activities 4 days a week a 45 minutes drive away.
I would work from 8:30 and be back around 18:30 5 days a week. I would normally do the cocking. At the weekends I would help with the cleaning, do DIY and take the children to activities.
I did suggest that we cut the children’s activities or move them to clubs close to home so she would not have to spend so much time driving them but she said she enjoyed it and would not hear of it.
With the risk of sounding unappreciative I did not feel she should be that tired with her workload and if she was I was willing to see what could be done to make it less tiresome.
I basically felt there was no time or interest in affection or sex. Well there mght be interest in cuddling up but it was not with sex in mind I just felt like a big teddy bear. On some occasions I would say “right! I’m going to the spare room to take care of business myself”. This was not appreciated and she was disgusted. She did not want sex and she did not want me to masturbate?

The COVID came! I was working from home and when the first home schooling period was over I was thinking that now we had a chance to catch up on the sex now that we had time together. She did not see it that way. The first time of COVID was worrying and uncertain in many ways. One god thing that came of it was that we got the children to sleep in their own beds (well sort off). I became more and more frustrated and ended up spending more and more time in the spare bedroom. She would sometimes come and want to cuddle up but when I realised that there was no interest in sex I would ask her to leave. I realise this was not very tactful but I was frustrated.

We would go away in the summer of 2020 for about 5 weeks were we would have most of the time for ourselves as the children would sleep in another room but still no sex. We probably had sex 2-4 times in the first six month of 2020. I would try to ask her why but she never said anything. When we got back from holiday the youngest would come into our bed again. I spend a week or two sleeping on the landing outside his bedroom until he was fine and sleep on his own. Then when I asked if I could come back into bed with my wife she said she had gotten used to and enjoyed her own space. I was now in the spare bedroom permanently.

I kept bringing the lack of sex and intimacy up and questioning what was going on? Then she finally said that was not interested in sex any more. I had gathered that and was in one way relived that she had finally put some words on this. And then at the same time so angry that it had taken her so long to put this into words. When she finally said it, it was also said with no realisation that this is quite a big thing. When I asked her if she still loved me she could not answer then question. Only a day or so later she said to me “the thing you asked me about yesterday… of course I do”.

Now when I bring the whole situation up she says that I have threated her bad badly. When I told her to get out of the bed I made her feel so small and she did not disserve to be threated that way. When I have brought the lack of sex up from time to time I realise that I have not expressed it in the best way. When I told her to get out of the bed when I there again was no interest in sex I realise that this was not the most elegant way. BUT I was missing the intimacy and I was trying to get her to express it from her point of view but I got no feedback. Only many months later she said she was just not interested.

Our oldest daughter has developed an eating disorder and in the chats with health people I mentioned that maybe our relationship issues were affecting our daughter. I spoke to her father, I spoke to some of the husbands of her girlfriends, and I ask her what she is thinking. Nothing. If she had an issue and she kept mentioning it to me, if she had spoken to my family, the wifes of my friends then I would make an effort to talk to her!

I don’t want to leave her and I don’t want to rock the world of three children. But I don’t want to live as we are. I have told her that this cannot go on but she says she doesn’t know what she wants. When I tell her this is only going one way – for separate lives and divorce she says I am being erratic and need to give her more time.

I am going to talk to a therapist (I have suggested several times that we both go but she will not hear of it). I don’t feel I am the one with the problem but I want to say I tried everything. When I told her that I was thinking of talking to a therapist she said “don’t, let us talk tomorrow”. She never brought it up…

I tell her that I could have been more tactful and I understand that I might have upset her but by not doing anything she is also sending messages.

As I am writing this I am getting sad, angry, frustrated. I have been taken for a foul and should have realised this years ago. I understand that you can fall out of love but have the decency to say it rather than living a lie…

Sorry for the long post! :(

Good luck, op. It really seems to me that your wife is scared of sex. It is not the same for women at all. For a start we have to be penetrated.

Most of us will have been through sexual trauma, former sexual abuse, sexual harassment, had sex when someone else wants us to. Pregnancy, miscarriage, abortion, birth are also included in this sexual trauma.

Our vaginas may have been torn and sewn up again several times: sex = injury and danger. On top of this we will have lived with men that are supposed to love us, but who have got huffy that they may not have been allowed to penetrate our stitched up vagina for several weeks after a birth.

Ante natal and labour medical care has at times felt exactly the same as sexual abuse. After I had my first DS, my GP insisted that I had to have had sex when I went in for my 6 week check. I was 17 and had an episiotomy.

This is the reality that women in relationships have lived through. You cannot say that you want sex and your wife should too. Stop for a moment and think about what sex might actually mean for your wife.

Of course everything has to be perfect, she has to be so relaxed. For many women, sex is not relaxing or fun and light. You surely must be able to work it out.

It is not about you, @daddk. Think about it.

@DoingItMyself

Her affection in general was disappearing as well My affection would disappear fast if someone thought any child-free moment was his opportunity to access my body. Even faster if he constantly pressured me for sex and even sent messages reminding me he wanted to discuss the issue. It's very off-putting and I certainly wouldn't want to have sex with that person.

On some occasions I would say “right! I’m going to the spare room to take care of business myself”
Sulking is never attractive. Also, yes, this is what you're supposed to do. In a committed relationship if your partner doesn't fancy a shag, you see to yourself. Without sulking.

when I realised that there was no interest in sex I would ask her to leave
You are only interested in sex, not in her. She's your wife, the mother of your children and most importantly, an individual in her own right. You don't own her. You don't have rights of access to her vagina whenever you like. Show her some respect. She's a wife not a wank-sock.

she had gotten used to and enjoyed her own space
I'm sure. Must have been a blessed relief to be away from the pestering.

in the chats with health people I mentioned that maybe our relationship issues were affecting our daughter. I spoke to her father, I spoke to some of the husbands of her girlfriends
So you spread it around that she doesn't come across as often as you'd like? You spoke to her father? So he could say 'Now daughter, open your legs for this man'? No. If this is true (and sometimes, things are unbelievable because they are not true) you really have sounded the death-knell for your relationship.

When I tell her this is only going one way – for separate lives and divorce
I should imagine she's counting the days.

I am going to talk to a therapist
Well, that's nice dear. As long as it's to get your head round your new life, and not to tell the therapist your wife-wank-sock is broken and you want to know how to fix it.

I have been taken for a foul
No. You've been together years. She's had three children for you, she keeps your home. If she doesn't want to have sex with you now, could be that your relationship has reached a natural conclusion. She's not making a fool of you. She's living in an intolerable situation.

Perfectly put. OP sounds awful. My entire body tensed up reading his post. His poor wife.

So many bitter man haters in this post. Usual

Men generally have a higher sex drive. Fact

He has stated he helps out at home

He has suggested his wife move kids groups closer to home to take off some of her strain which she won't

He's suggested time to themselves (not mentioning sex) and got a response of maybe tomorrow

Granted the spare room comments are odd but surely when this part of this relationship is important to him and he's tried explaining this to his wife who shrugs it off he's bound to get frustrated and make such comments

He asked if she still loves him and she couldn't answer and needed a day to think of her response?!

He's suggested therapy as a couple which she isn't interested in.

No wonder he is so frustrated, Give the poor bloke a break!

She doesn’t want to have sex , but you do . You are not unusual in not wishing to be in a sexless marriage . It doesn’t sound like she’s willing to discuss this or try and mi e forward in any meaningful way .
I think the best way forward is to consider separation . She can find someone else who doesn’t want sex either and you can hopefully find someone who is more in tune with what you want .. life’s to short to be frustrated and miserable , for either of you .
I think if you were a woman posting this , people would be accusing your other half of having an affair snd getting their needs met elsewhere .
Lots of double standards

I haven’t read the full thread, but it’s clear from post 1 that she is trying to initiate intimacy, but when she does you lose your shit if that cuddle won’t lead to sex. So of course she doesn’t want to initiate intimacy any more because you will then expect sex, which clearly she’s not in the mood for right now.

Intimacy and affection come before sex. If she feels that intimacy is off the table because you will expect sex, there won’t be any of either.

Tell her you’re taking sex off the table. You just want to establish more affection and intimacy, and you won’t get upset if cuddles don’t lead to sex. I can almost guarantee the intimacy will increase. Then when things are more open between you, it will be easier to discuss things.

She’s clearly a wonderful mother, and with three children it’s very easy for your whole life to become about your children. Stop being angry that she’s prioritising up or children over you - that’s definitely not attractive.

Men generally have a higher sex drive. Fact.

That is arrant nonsense.

@vwtallis

What you're describing is coersion though. You're being conditioned to provide sex to avoid sulking. That's abusive and unhealthy and not normal at all in a loving relationship.

@daddk

Op I've noticed your second post is rather more measured than the first.

If you can understand that this is not about sex, it is about your relationship as a whole, your wife is possibly unhappy and if you are not willing to address that or don't care then the marriage is doomed.

It sounds to me as though she still loves you a lot, lack of sex definitely does not mean a woman doesn't love you, but she may be using that as the only area of control she has in the relationship dynamic.

There is no affection.

There is but you refuse it because it doesn't lead to sex.

I think you have to decide how you want your life to be. Either you settle for what you have now amd let the issue of sex rest or you try and change things but bear in mind that could lead to eventual divorce.

OP, If you were as useless as some PPs are trying to convince you that you are, your wife would not want to be in a relationship with you.

If all you contributed was money and a roof, she could get the same out of divorcing you and the added benefit of not having to think up creative excuses for why she doesn't want to have sex with you "right now".

The basis yof your relationship was (presumably) mutual attraction. It is not normal to have to jump through hoops in order to be "rewarded" with sex by your partner. People want to have sex with people they find attractive. People (supposedly) enter into relationships with people they find attractive.

Unfortunately attraction is not a choice. It sounds like you're with a woman who no longer finds you attractive but does find it useful to have you as a live-in partner and father.

You can make it clear that your relationship hangs in the balance of this issue and maybe she'll cooperate, let you know what the issue is and provide a path for you both to solve it.

Alternatively, you now know why the sex industry is booming. If you don't want to upheave the lives of your children, find another woman to have sex with, exchange money if you're willing, don't let your wife find out and end the relationship once they've flown the nest.

It sounds as though you've served your purpose to provide your wife with children & income to keep her in a comfortable lifestyle so sex is now off the table*

I agree with the above. Look OP if she wanted to have sex with you she would, it really is that simple.

You can carry on making excuses to yourself about why that may be but it changes nothing.

I understand that you can fall out of love but have the decency to say it rather than living a lie

Why would she do that when you're providing the lifestyle she wants to continue? She doesn't want your sex or affection so having this her way is working for her.

You're not going to get to the bottom of this and talking to her won't change anything, because you're not going to get the truth.

What you need to decide is whether you can spend the rest of your life like this and take it from there.

is not normal to have to jump through hoops in order to be "rewarded" with sex by your partner

you're with a woman who no longer finds you attractive but does find it useful to have you as a live-in partner and father

I also agree with both of the above points.

@daddk

This is the post you should have written first.

Your first one came over as entitled, narcissistic, selfish and manchild like.

This one doesn’t. You’ll get much more empathy and understanding with this post.

It’s hard to communicate when you reject each other, if one’s angry, frustrated, talked down to, not listened to, disenfranchised.......

In all your posts you say sex and discussions about sex hit a wall. Try talking about making love !!!!

Making love isn’t just about sticking your dick in your wife and splodging

It’s the little things, kind words, appreciation of your wife, respectful towards her, asking for a cuddle or a hug and making it known that you don’t intend it to lead to sex.

Enjoy lying in each other’s arms purely for the enjoyment of lying in each other’s arms. Tell her you love her.

Run her a hot soapy bath, give her a glass of wine, buy some flowers, chocolates, not just as a one off, but make it a regular occurrence.

Do more things as a family. Be kind and patient to her and the children. Show the children you LOVE your wife and not come over as a sulkwanker with attitude.

She’s the hard working mother of your children. Appreciate her for that, tell her that.

Stick your ‘ dick in wife ‘ thoughts on the backburner for a while.

You might be pleasantly surprised, you may not.

But two fundamental things will emerge if you follow some of the above.

1.) Not only will you come across as more pleasant, you’ll be pleasant to be around. Your wife will be more relaxed and less stressed around you.

2.) You will have tried. You will have tried to be the best person you can be and you will have tried to address some short comings to save your marriage and relationship.

She’s never going to have the same sex drive or want the frequency that you would like.......

But it doesn’t mean love has to die.

Aim for quality over quantity.

Op, she does not want to have sex with you. You can work and household chore to yr hearts content but, if your daily words are shallow or possibly intimidating and your actions contrived, your DW will feel and sense that.

Do you upset her? Could you be perceived as controlling? Does she feel trapped or intimidated by you and her life? Any one of those scenarios would heal a fanjo over.

You said in your post "Trying not to blame her". Have you ever considered you may be the issue? Why are you "trying" not to blame her?

You have been married 23 yrs and these issues re lack of sex have only occurred to you now? What has prompted that in you? What has happened for you to post here now for help?

No dishwasher filling or moon zenith would stop me from ever having sex with someone i desired. In fact, i would happily have sex with someone over the dishwasher if i desired them. Something has put your DW off.

Your wife does not want to have sex with you. That is what you need to understand. If she has lived with you for 23 yrs and this is how she feels it may be time for you both to move on.

She has spent 23 yrs with you and she does not want sex with you. Maybe she is financially trapped, who knows. End of the day, she does not want sex with you. You need to respect that and maybe work together to now formally separate so that you can both initiate sexual and loving relationships with others.

@daddk "Trying not to blame her (which was difficult)".

I think Op the "difficulties " lie. within you. "Her " is your wife, "her " is not having sex with you. "Her" needs more. "Her" is your wife, the mother of your children and you refer to your DW and children's mother as "her" ?

You refer to your wife and children's mother as "her" and then looking for answers here as to why " she" wont have sex with you.

Maybe " she" is done?

OP your original post sounds needy and a bit creepy. Do you have to tell your wife you’re masturbating? I’m not sure she needed to know. Tbh I think that much pressure for sex would out a lot of people off

I think if a partner has got to the point of saying they never want to have sex with you again, then they are pretty sure of themselves and deserve that agency to be respected. We all have many people in our lives we don't want to shag, and if our partner falls and stays in that category, the relationship is over as it was. Many people can stay in a sexless relationship and it can work just fine, but that won't work if one partner still desires and wants the other. It would be a good thing for both of you to separate. Although heartbreaking to be rejected sexually constantly, being under pressure to have sex you don't want is a really hideous kind of grim. She might not mind splitting up. It may be a new lease of life for you both.