Hubby, work and finances

[Mermaid75]

DH and I have v. different perspectives and after over 20 years it may be the end of us. Question I wanted to ask if people are okay to share is how much do you spend on living per year (everything included like holidays, kids clothes, haircuts etc)? We have what I think is a pretty low mortgage, have a good holiday every year but don't have days/meals out all the time, drive old cars etc. With 3 teenage children I estimated total (absolutely everything I could think of) to cost 25 - 30K a year. DH has never had ambition, several periods out of work over the years through choice and doesn't want to live to work. All fine in theory except he is not contributing anywhere near half, let alone savings for the future. I'm S/Employed, had a good couple of years income wise and enjoy what I do but it is bloody hard work and lots of pressure on me to earn because he doesn't earn enough. He just thinks we should cut back and live more simply so that he can work p-time. He does tell me to work less to but he has no idea of reality of costs or being s/e. We are both late 40's and no private pensions, but some savings. I am in despair - feel like I am made out to be money grabbing/materialist if I try to approach it. I have no idea what is "normal" family costs are but don't think we are extravagant and I don't see why I should support my DH just because he doesn't want to work more. It's not about the days he works - if he had a well paid job and p/t contributed a fair share I wouldn't have a problem. I need to tackle this and I feel like this will be the end of our relationship.

I also think he has lived off your hard graft whilst he has had periods of being out of work over the years through choice. And he also has no pension; this is worrying considering that both of you are now in your 40s. You could well be working into your 70s with such a waster.

Would you want your children as adults to have a relationship like yours; I would think not. I would seriously consider cutting your losses now and seeking legal advice.

@Hont1986

Wow, the usual MN advice really goes out the window when you swap the genders!

Not contributing half doesn't mean he is 'living off you'. If you are the higher earner, obviously you are going to contribute more percentage-wise. Without knowing what he earns, we can't possibly say whether his wage is enough.

If you were a man on here saying your wife wasn't 'ambitious' enough and wasn't contributing 50% despite you being the higher earner, you'd rightfully be called an arsehole.

Not if the wife was refusing to work full time, with no SEN or other considerations, and children in teens.

You have no pensions???

In your forties???

You say it takes 25-30k to live per annum now. The state pension is £9k a year and kicks in when you (female) are 67.

In 2 decades the cost of living will have increased considerably, but it's doubtful that the state pension will.

So in retirement you 2 are planning on living on less money per year than you have now (albeit you'll probably have paid off your mortgage by then) with a higher cost of living? Or are you going to work (possibly reduced hours) for the rest of your life?

I hope your house is worth A LOT, as you will probably need to sell it to live.

Alternatively, you could go through your finances with a fine tooth comb. Start contributing to a private pension now (you've already missed getting tax relief on this year's earnings), he could step up his game and you could retire at a decent age with a "reasonable" income.

Reducing your income through working less in your mid-life is only really possible for those who have planned for their retirement or those who are happy to work until they die. That's the bottom line. You need to explain this to you DH.

@Hont1986 a SAHP (of either gender) with small children is a completely different situation and one I assume has been agreed to by both partners as apposed to a unilateral decision on work hours expecting the other to pay. You asked what he earnt - it is basically minimum wage.

@coronaway Yes he mentions cutting back - but on what? If we were desperate we could cut but a bit more but really live a fairly frugal life and any cutting back would basically take away the odd small pleasure, and impact the children mostly.

I am late 40s and had an unexpected health issue last year. I may not recover enough to work my job full time or perhaps not at all.

If that were you what sort of precarious position you would be in! At least I get 6 months at full sick pay.

He needs to get real and fast.

I would have no respect and much resentment after this long of my supposed life partner not pulling their weight in anyway for years already and having no intention to do so ever.

How old are the teens?

Honestly I would be considering divorce because he is utterly selfish.

You do need to make provision for your retirement but if you start a pension now he could argue for half of it.

You'd be better off separating first.

(you can carry forward 3 years of pension tax allowance so don't worry too much about missing the deadline for this tax year)

@Mermaid75 how did it get to this situation? Did your DH suddenly change or did you overlook it in the beginning?

It sounds like your relationship is unworkable.

I've been here a long time and yes there are plenty of threads about SAHMs of school age children who post about their husbands working 60hrs a week and they aren't told they are living off their husbands or that they lack ambition.

But that is not what is happening in this scenario at all.
If a woman came on here and said they weren't a SAHP (teenage kids), they didn't have childcare responsibilities, did less than 50% of the housework, had a part-time minimum wage job and no interest in increasing hours to contribute more to the household, they'd quite rightly get their ass handed to them on a plate.

I can't stand these posts where someone claims that on other threads where the situation is reversed posters have given a different answer when the scenario is completely different.

Anyway, in this case, the DH needs to start pulling his weight more. Shape up or ship out. If he's only working part time ad contributing much less to the finances, he should be doing more of the work at home to reduce stress on his wife who is working long hours to secure their financial future.
I think OP needs to sit down with him and have this out with him. He can't expect to sit around until retirement doing the absolute minimum while she works for both of them. What exactly does he expect to happen when he retires? Where is the money to live off going to come from? There are no pensions so they will have to make do on the state pension and live off savings if they have accumulated enough of those.

It is possible to live very simply. I am actually doing that myself but I don't have a partner and don't have children (teenagers are expensive! they have needs!). I can work fewer hours and have enough to live on and to save for the future. But it's a different mindset and it's not possible if everyone isn't on board with it 100% and I also think it isn't possible if you're trying to raise teenagers and making sure they have everything they need and prepare for university etctc.
I made a choice not to have children and I made a choice to live in a very small flat and I choose not to spend on things such as hairdressers. I am also not living off someone else's hard work!!

If your DH wants to live like that he can, but not by rolling around the house while you earn the money and he does fuck all. He needs to go and set up on his own (which, by the way, he won't be able to afford to do on a part-time minimum wage job)

There is no doubt that inequality in earning and different expectations on life style is a major cause of breakup, probably the most common even before sexual compatability, cheating or starting a family.
It tends to manifest when you start to look at the future as opposed to just getting by day to day bringing up children and juggling work.
I think you need to set very clear objectives for you finances and how to achieve them and if they are so far apart between you, you need to consider the options.
Those saying dump him are not living your life. It is highly likely you will actually be worse off separating, both financially and the dynamics of the family. It could take a good few years to recover financially from speration. This isn't a reason to stay if you feel it is right to leave, but it is a reason to look at all options before leaving.
I'm guessing the resentment that you are indicating is building up, is impacting on other areas of your relationship.
I would personally struggle with the situation you describe and would struggle with voluntary unemployment when my partner was working hard, but that's me, not you.

One thing is clear. This is the time to resolve this. Don't put it off as decisions have to be made.

Honestly, I'm having a bad MN day with all the feckless men about...

Sod him. Ditch him and live a more affluent life on your own.

I would say that if he wants to go PT, he'll need to pick up a much higher proportion of the housework, say 80:20. He needs to prove he's willing to do that by starting to do at least 50% of the work now.

I bet he'll say he already is. So his first task will be writing out every single job that he thinks needs doing in the house and putting his name against those he does, and your name against those you do. Then you can add all the stuff he's forgotten, and you can both decide which additional tasks he'll be picking up.

Even if he doesn't go PT, getting him to do 50% is important.

He / they can’t afford to work PT!

My ex husband was similar. He was 'self employed' but spent alot of time doing hobbies and sleeping. He did do some childcare but not enough to explain him working as little as he did. The resentment totally killed the marriage. Feeling like you have an extra child not a partner is deeply unattractive. He now lives in a cheap flat on PT wage and benefits topping up his rent. He contributes nothing to the kids as he cant afford it. Sometimes when unexpected bills come in that bothers me but not as much as when we were living under the same roof and I had to see him lazing around while I did all the hard graft and paid for everything. You are incompatible in work ethic and financial responsibility. I earnt enough that we had an ok life and got by but it doesnt mean I don't resent the stuff we did miss out on - holidays with friends, school trips, a nicely decorated and furnished house and a decent pension. Stuff we could have afforded if he had worked as hard as me. I have several female friends who never went back to work post kids and whose husbands massively resent that - some of the men now have health problems from the stress of financially carrying the whole family when that was never agreed. It doesnt matter what gender you are the one forced into paying for the other against their wishes always resents it. From a divorce settlement point of view the quicker you end it the better, especially if you will still have dependent children to support in your home, the longer you stay the bigger financial hit you will take. He's dragging you down to live a poorer life. It doesnt matter if its still more than others have, its not the life you want to be living and there is no reason like disability or illness to justify it. What you want matters to. I am better off financially without ex even without any child maintenance as he cost more than he contributed, I save money each month now. I dont think any able adult should take advantage of another and I dont think its any different which gender is refusing to work. Once it stops being a joint decision it stops being a partnership. You will probably live another 40+ years ask yourself if what you want from all your hard work is a life on a state pension with no hobbies or money to go on holidays. Because that is what you are looking at. Also think about moving into a salaried job with a pension scheme you can do until you are 70. That is what I have done to try and undo the damage of a lazy partner and career breaks from having kids. Its not my dream job and I won't be well off in old age but I also won't be broke.

Oh op, I'm in the same boat, 4 teenagers. I feel sick when I think of where I am

For whatever reason not everyone is cut out to work full time, so those people have to find someone else to support them, whether it be a parent, a partner or the government.
Working full time is stressful.
This intention to "work until 70" can be ruined in the snap of the fingers due to health or routine aging events.
It's all just so precarious.
Ideally, he would go to work FT for 8-10 years and save a lot of money for both of you for the long-term.
Good luck whatever you do. It sucks.

How about discussing FIRE with him? Tell him you totally agree that life shouldn't be all 'work, work, work' and that you can set up a FIRE project- 'financial independence, retire early'.

In effect, you both minimise expenditure and maximise earning in order to be in a position to retire early. Or in this case, for you to avoid working yourself into the grave to pay for his life of semi retirement. Just don't tell him the last bit!

How many years until your mortgage is fully paid ?

Then financial experts normally recommend 6months pay in an emergency savings fund

Pensions for retirement

Are you planning on down sizing during retirement?

You both need to crunch the numbers. Can you both work PT in the future?

Surely it is better to work FT now, than be working PT when 70+ ?

@Yorkshirehillbilly...what she said!

1. I’m financially better off despite no child maintenance and 50% of all equity. Never realised how much he was costing me

2. Sunk cost fallacy applies to marriage

3. He won’t change, why should/would he?

4. The longer you stay, the more you lose

This does apply to both men and women. Some couple want the set up of one person bringing most or all money in. That’s fine as long as both are happy.

I think you need to speak to a financial advisor and a divorce solicitor about how you’re going to survive once you retire. You definitely need a plan and he needs to get real, life as a pensioner on only a state pension is not good.

If you were separated he’d do less at home and likely contribute less financially as he seems like the type of father who’d make sure his earnings were low enough that he’d have to contribute zero. So, figure out the finances first, with him not contributing but you possibly getting more of the house equity, talk to him about old age and how he’s going to pay for his? He needs to wake up and realise you won’t pay for him much longer.

@MaLarkinn - I think because I am now looking at that next stage of life I have realised what position I have allowed myself to be put in and won't allow this to continue. It might not be an overnight thing (and my eldest is about to do A levels so I won't be issuing any ultimatums until after that is done - time to get some things sorted in the background) but I am now prepared to end it if he doesn't fully pull weight What are your plans for your situation?

@RedFrogsRule
These are all of the things I am constantly thinking about.....

@ProfessorPootle
I have sought legal advice - I would most likely have to go 50/50 on house and savings. Youngest is 14 -wouldn't expect to get any maintenance or other financial support for them even if it was legally due. I think I could support us all okay - possible to re-mortgage - not sure I would be able to borrow enough, but could afford to buy a smaller house and move to a slightly cheaper part of town.

To those suggesting he just takes on more stuff at home - yes we could survive day to day but with no pensions that is not a long term option and not one I am willing to agree to at all - why would I?

I get cross just thinking about the position he's put you both in.

He certainly doesn't care about the DC needs or aspiring for them to do well does he

I was a SAHM for 6 years and then DH reduced his hours and I went full time. In many ways I regret those SAHM years - the loss of paying into a pension when young etc.

I really hope we are in a position to downsize at 60 and have enough private pension coming in for both of us to work part time until state pension and rest of probate comes in at late 60s.

Have a health crises that may impact my earning potential in my 50s is a really spanner in the works