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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationship with DB

75 replies

ThePurpleOctopus · 22/03/2021 14:32

Hello all. This is going to be long, so thank you in advance for reading and responding, if you do.

Short story: Me (and DH, plus three kids) and my parents have sold our respective houses and bought one together that is larger with an annexe next door, for us all to live together. DB (and SIL, by extension, I guess) hasn't spoken to me since he knew this was happening. It's been six months, and we've now been in this new house around two months.

Long story: for many years, me and DM have been talking on and off about living together. DP have provided a fair bit of childcare for both me and DB (DB and SIL have two children, and our children are all aged between 1 and 7), and has stayed with us while doing this (and stayed at DB's when doing it for him). I would describe myself as being close with my parents, and my DH loves them too.

My DH hasn't wanted to leave the city we lived in, and that was a deal-breaker for him for a long time. DP never wanted to live in a city, so it's regularly been discussed offhand about living together but no one ever thought it was a reality. FYI: I would also very happily live with MIL, and DB and his family, if they wanted to.

Anyway, COVID and WFH changed things, plus me and DH getting older (mid-30s) and thinking about the life we want for our DC. Suddenly, he showed an interest in living outside of our city and got excited by the countryside life, and how we'd be able to get a bigger and better house (city money going further outside of the city, etc.). This has also come at a time when DH is changing jobs, so we're both about to WFH indefinitely, or with occasional visits to the city.

It then just happened really quickly, and none of us four (me, DH, DM, DF) really expected it at all. We went from vague, offhand discussions about potential areas to live in, to suddenly finding 'the one' and putting our offer in (neither of us was on the market, that's how quickly this happened).

When DB was told, I hear from my DP that he was VERY shocked and not expecting it at all (fair enough, totally). And from that day he hasn't spoken to me and won't answer my texts (in that time I've sent maybe 1-4 a month - going from 'how are you' and 'haven't heard from you in a while, is everything ok?' at first, to now one a month with a general question or comment in case he wants to reply. He reads them all but doesn't reply. I was worried I'm harrassing him, but there's a family WhatsApp for our family and he posts photos of his children in there, knowing I'll see them. So I'm hoping he doesn't think I'm messaging too much.

By extension, he hasn't spoken to DH in the same timeframe, nor my children. SIL replies to my texts (used to be frequent and we had a good relationship, but are now few and far between) briefly and distantly. Hasn't asked how we are, etc. A few weeks after finding out about the house plans, DB and SIL sent all our Christmas presents in the post - this was September, and at the time the plan was for them to host us at Christmas. (We didn't know what was coming in terms of the COVID rules at that point). So very quickly me and DH realised how the relationship was fracturing. I messaged 'merry Christmas' to DB and he chose not to reply.

DH and DP think DB is very ridiculous and will 'snap out of it' at some point. They say they're all quite taken aback with his behaviour. For me, I'm devastated. Probably not a day has gone by that I haven't thought about DB or tried to speculate what he thinks or why he has cut our relationship.

I don't really know what I want from this post. I know that I can't force DB to do anything, and he might or might not come round. I guess if anyone reads this and sees something obvious that he's upset about and I can try to fix it, then I'd be grateful. I've speculated for months on what's going on....

  1. Is it that he wants to live with us? (From DP I understand the answer is definitely not, and I'd be surprised if he did)
  2. Is it that he wants to live with my DP? (Possibly. One month before we decided to do this, he and SIL moved into their forever house in the country (it took months to build it, so a fair bit of time coming), and it has a loft room. DB has mentioned in the past that DP could stay in the loft room when they're elderly; DP are surprised at this because it won't be very accessible to older people if it's not on the ground floor).
  3. Is it that he wants to be closer to us all? (Maybe, but it would be arguing a tiny point. He used to be ~2.5 hrs from me, now it's about 55 mins. He used to be 45 mins from DP, now he's 55 mins - apparently he's cross that they've moved further away from him).
  4. Is it that he wants to live where we now do (Possibly, as it's a special part of the country for our family, and a lovely countryside, but he and SIL chose country 1 hour down the road instead).
  5. Is it that he's worried about DP's relationship with DGC? (Possibly, and this was a HUGE point of mine when we made this decision to move. He won't know it, but I've been clear with DP from the start that I want to make sure DB and SIL's children can visit without feeling like it's OUR home. As a result, we've found somewhere where DP have separate living space in their annex next door, and I've already said that sometimes when DB and SIL visit, me and DH and DC should visit MIL or other family, to not always be here. I've read enough threads about how parents don't feel their children get the same attention as nieces and nephews.)
  6. Is he worried about inheritance? (Possibly; if it was discussed he'd hear that DP are desperate to be fair about it, and writing various things into their will to ensure he gets 50%).

Have I done something wrong?

And (I know this is so long, I'm very sorry), the more I've thought about this, the more I've reflected back on our relationship. And the truth is, he's never really liked me, I don't think. He seems to find me intensely irritating and annoyingly (I guess you can't choose your family), and has occasionally sworn at me and been cruel. And before this happened, he didn't acknowledge my birthday, didn't acknowledge my DS's birthday, and a few other things. That is NOT to say he's a bad person - in fact, I think I've been coveting his attention our whole lives, but that if at some point in the future we are able to fix this, I probably need to listen to what he has to say and apologise to him, but maybe he should also listen to me and realise he's not been the best brother.

What do people think?

OP posts:
Giantrooster · 22/03/2021 15:44

how can I best try and make things right? Should I stay back and wait for him (if/when) to want to have a relationship, or push more from my side?

Sorry missed this Smile. I don't know, this can be a long term feeling he has, so you and your dps are only validating this.

As an example my late eldest sister was a very nice person, tried to do good for everyone... she got her way with most things, parents always seeing how nice she was trying to be. She could explain everything to be a nice action for everybody. Not saying this is your dynamics, but I wouldn't have felt comfortable with my dsister if she had done this and explained it away. It's all in the parents/siblings dynamics.

First of all I think both you and very much your parents should acknowledge your db's feelings as valid and perhaps talk it through.

ThePurpleOctopus · 22/03/2021 15:51

@Giantrooster

how can I best try and make things right? Should I stay back and wait for him (if/when) to want to have a relationship, or push more from my side?

Sorry missed this Smile. I don't know, this can be a long term feeling he has, so you and your dps are only validating this.

As an example my late eldest sister was a very nice person, tried to do good for everyone... she got her way with most things, parents always seeing how nice she was trying to be. She could explain everything to be a nice action for everybody. Not saying this is your dynamics, but I wouldn't have felt comfortable with my dsister if she had done this and explained it away. It's all in the parents/siblings dynamics.

First of all I think both you and very much your parents should acknowledge your db's feelings as valid and perhaps talk it through.

Helpful, thank you. If we get to talk, I'll make sure to listen and try not to 'explain away' (good phrase, thanks).

If it is indeed about being left out and not being consulted, I can certainly, and should, apologise for that.

OP posts:
Giantrooster · 22/03/2021 15:54

He was very cross with DP at first, but things quickly went back to normal. DM is very upset that we're not talking (me and DB) and has offered a few times to say something to him. I've said very strongly that I don't want this.

I'm just way behind here Grin. It's your parents creating this dynamic, divide and conquer. As long as you are the favored one you can't see this, I expect.

Giantrooster · 22/03/2021 15:58

Almost caught up Grin If it is indeed about being left out and not being consulted, I can certainly, and should, apologise for that.

No, and yes you could but this is on your parents, not you. With the relationship you described, I think he resents you instead of those creating the dynamic, your parents.

ThePurpleOctopus · 22/03/2021 15:59

@Giantrooster

He was very cross with DP at first, but things quickly went back to normal. DM is very upset that we're not talking (me and DB) and has offered a few times to say something to him. I've said very strongly that I don't want this.

I'm just way behind here Grin. It's your parents creating this dynamic, divide and conquer. As long as you are the favored one you can't see this, I expect.

I want a relationship with my DB beyond my parents. I've asked my parents to stay out of this.

Let's hope I can get that kind of relationship. I appreciate he may not want it.

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 22/03/2021 15:59

Isn't all of this your parent's responsibility? If any "consulting" needed to be done, (it didn't), shouldn't they have been the ones to speak to your brother? You were supposed to manage their affairs for them?

Helga55 · 22/03/2021 16:04

He's also probably a bit peeved you've now got childcare 'on tap' as it were

Giantrooster · 22/03/2021 16:07

You probably won't have a good relationship with your db until you both acknowledge your parent's role. I didn't have a bad relationship with my dsister just a distant one. Not until our parents were very elderly and wasn't so much in the equation did it improve (we were older, wiser and sister got ill).

pog100 · 22/03/2021 16:32

@Aquamarine1029

Isn't all of this your parent's responsibility? If any "consulting" needed to be done, (it didn't), shouldn't they have been the ones to speak to your brother? You were supposed to manage their affairs for them?
This ^. I think because of your desire to be approved of by your cool brother you've lost sight of whose responsibility, if anyone's and I think it is someone's, it was to keep your brother in the loop about this. Your parents. Your brother though is acting like a spoilt child Is he? There's no excuse for not responding to your overtures, that is just plain rude. I think it's still on your parents to sort this one out.
Maray1967 · 22/03/2021 16:37

Yes, this is up to your parents to sort out. There might also be a concern on his part that DP will prioritise your DC over his - maybe an unfair assumption but this might be an issue.

minty133 · 22/03/2021 16:44

It's bound to be over inheritance. Families always fall out over money. He probably thinks when your mum dies you will be sat pretty in a big fancy house. In fact what is the plan when your mum dies? Will you have to sell up? How will the inheritance be split?

Potentialscroogeincognito · 22/03/2021 17:10

Myself and DH have actually been on your DB and SIL side of things and have gone completely NC with SIL and DH parents.

For us it was actually at the end of a very long list of actions (stemming from DH being a child) that he was constantly second best or not even thought of. Even at our own wedding we were not a priority for them but only second to what SIL wanted (well where is SIL going to have her hair done ... erm don’t know don’t care why would I plan that!? And that’s just one example!) She (SIL) is also what I would consider a pathological liar for everything from what day she did X,Y,Z to lies which meant her daughter could have died and took great upset when I challenged her on this.

Both sold their houses and bought something together - we didn’t know until the new purchase was confirmed, not even that it was a far off dream or idea. We found out and were hugely supportive of PIL moving to their dream location, enjoying retirement etc ... then found out SIL and kids going too. Cue v sheepish PIL of why they hadn’t mentioned that but... So basically they were funding her move and becoming live in babysitters.
Final straw was asking when we could collect childhood belongings from DH childhood home to be told they had all been binned (inc school reports, photos, toys the lot) as “it was all a load of rubbish” and then them not understanding why we would be even a little upset.
They moved 5+ hours away, heard very little from them and naturally went LC. We found it was so damaging to DH mental health that we went NC. They have never contacted us, ever. Even when we had a baby which they would have seen via social media (we didn’t block nieces or nephews or anything) We have since found out they have moved house from the address we had and we now have no idea where they live.

The damage has been monumental and is a constant cloud over us. They will never, ever understand the trauma and damage that they have done to DH. Nor, sadly, do I think they care.

So please do consider there may be other things between your DB and parents that you may not have considered. And it is lovely of you to reach out and continue to do so. I imagine her is very hurt and blindsided by the sudden move and I hope you guys can repair your relationship.

CautiousBlonde · 22/03/2021 17:32

It’ll be about money OP - your parents money

My brother’s a dick too, haven’t spoken to him for 6/7 years

ThePurpleOctopus · 22/03/2021 17:35

@Potentialscroogeincognito

Myself and DH have actually been on your DB and SIL side of things and have gone completely NC with SIL and DH parents.

For us it was actually at the end of a very long list of actions (stemming from DH being a child) that he was constantly second best or not even thought of. Even at our own wedding we were not a priority for them but only second to what SIL wanted (well where is SIL going to have her hair done ... erm don’t know don’t care why would I plan that!? And that’s just one example!) She (SIL) is also what I would consider a pathological liar for everything from what day she did X,Y,Z to lies which meant her daughter could have died and took great upset when I challenged her on this.

Both sold their houses and bought something together - we didn’t know until the new purchase was confirmed, not even that it was a far off dream or idea. We found out and were hugely supportive of PIL moving to their dream location, enjoying retirement etc ... then found out SIL and kids going too. Cue v sheepish PIL of why they hadn’t mentioned that but... So basically they were funding her move and becoming live in babysitters.
Final straw was asking when we could collect childhood belongings from DH childhood home to be told they had all been binned (inc school reports, photos, toys the lot) as “it was all a load of rubbish” and then them not understanding why we would be even a little upset.
They moved 5+ hours away, heard very little from them and naturally went LC. We found it was so damaging to DH mental health that we went NC. They have never contacted us, ever. Even when we had a baby which they would have seen via social media (we didn’t block nieces or nephews or anything) We have since found out they have moved house from the address we had and we now have no idea where they live.

The damage has been monumental and is a constant cloud over us. They will never, ever understand the trauma and damage that they have done to DH. Nor, sadly, do I think they care.

So please do consider there may be other things between your DB and parents that you may not have considered. And it is lovely of you to reach out and continue to do so. I imagine her is very hurt and blindsided by the sudden move and I hope you guys can repair your relationship.

Christ, that is horrible. I'm so sorry, for you and your DH (and your children, because they will miss out too).

I really hope this is not a situation like that, but I acknowledge the parallels and the potential for it being like that if we don't push to repair the relationship.

It's also very useful to hear about how important it is that I keep trying. I've been worried that I'm harrassing him by messaging so much - he could so easily say 'she's messaged me 30 times in the last several months and it's clear I'm not interested'. But I appreciate the view that he needs to hear that I want contact, and I love him.

Thank you

OP posts:
ThePurpleOctopus · 22/03/2021 17:39

I also want to say that I appreciate the variety of views - I don't actually disagree with those of you saying he's being a bit of a dick. It doesn't feel fair that he can ignore me for a lot of his life, comment spitefully in jibes when he finds me irritating, but then get pissed off when I don't tell him about a big life change for me.

But I also see that this life change is different because it does involve him and affect him, and that regardless of what my parents did/do, I should have spoken to him and let him know (even if its a was heads-up and to hear his views, rather than 'consulting' him on the decision).

And at the end of the day, I do want a relationship with him. So I need to fix this.

OP posts:
Piggypiggyoinkoink · 22/03/2021 17:40

I want a relationship with my DB beyond my parents. I've asked my parents to stay out of this.

From what you’ve said, you didn’t have this before the move, so why do you want it now? What does he bring to your life? Were you and / or your parents consulted about his home? Or anything else to do with his life? If not, why should he get to do that for yours?

You’ve tried, he’s ignoring you, so leave him to stew.

Aquamarine1029 · 22/03/2021 19:09

And at the end of the day, I do want a relationship with him. So I need to fix this.

It takes all parties involved to fix a relationship, op. If your brother isn't interested, it's not going to happen.

ErleighBird · 22/03/2021 20:18

A similar thing happened to my partner. It really wasn't about money at all. It was about feeling left out and disregarded, it stung.

MsJinks · 22/03/2021 21:23

Some good ideas on here - depends a lot on the dynamics of all the individual relationships as pointed out - I’m thinking that for one of my kids, they would certainly feel totally left out and upset they just didn’t know, they do about a cinema trip when done without malice - that’s her, needing to know equally without malice. But the main one I think could be feeling your children are favoured over theirs - people can manage a lot when it’s just them feeling excluded or not the golden child, but once it comes down to their kids it’s a whole new game. Could their kids feel envious? They’re young and still probably think it’s amazing being with grandma and having lots of treats? You can’t change the proximity day to day but maybe the visit or regular contact from gran to grandkids? I moved an hour away from paternal grandparents with 2 of their young grandchildren whilst one grandchild grew up much, much nearer - ultimately this was reflected in how close they were with her as adults - this is life, but maybe your brother is sad for his children.

LaLou7 · 22/03/2021 23:04

I think that either you or your parents need to talk to him properly instead of letting this fester. If it's been 6 months already with no change then he's clearly not going to snap out of it any time soon. I do understand your predicament in not wanting to pester him but he's clearly ignoring you intentionally and I doubt he's just going to reply to one of your texts all of a sudden deciding he's ok with you. He might actually be waiting for you to bring the issue up directly instead of asking how he is and other generic questions.
I think for the sake of the relationship between your children and nieces/nephews at the very least then you need to ask him directly (or SIL) to explain exactly what is upsetting him and causing him to go NC with you. If you have no luck via that route then your parents need to get involved. I don't mean to be rude but I never really understand how families can sweep things under the carpet for so long, when often, asking a direct question can save a lot of heartache and provide a lot of answers. Even if your brother tells you that he no longer wants a relationship with you for whatever reason, then at least you will know where you stand and can move on.

Theworldisfullofgs · 22/03/2021 23:20

I can see where he is coming from and against the trend I doubt its really about inheritance although it will present like that. You and your parents made a big, life changing decision without him, that fundamentally changes the family dynamics. You've said you thought about how to mitigate that and has it been discussed with him? Did your parent's discuss it with thim?

Your set up changes what was the well worn groove, the dynamics of how things are done in the family - all the relationships. You did the new ground rules in your head but not with him. And even with those in place you'll have a different relationship with your parents than he will have and your parents will have a different relationship with your children than his children will have with them, its inevitable.

I can see why he would be miffed. Equally he needs to find the words to tell all of you (including his parents) how he feels.

InescapableDeath · 23/03/2021 00:26

You should have spoken to him. I have experience on both sides of this. I have a younger brother I would love to be in touch with but he’s decided not to bother with me and it really hurts (and he says nothing is wrong).

I also have just found out my inlaws and SIL are moving away to a seaside town together, combining the inlaws properties (they own two) to buy a house for each of them. They can do what they want with their money but yes it does hurt that it’s been presented as done deal when they’ve been planning it for months. And they’re massively helping out SIL (like they always do) without even considering what my DH might feel. And as they’re not my side of the family there’s nothing I can say about it. But to my mind, they’re not ‘in the wrong’ but they have tried to hide it because they didn’t want to have a conversation about it.

ThePurpleOctopus · 23/03/2021 09:00

@Piggypiggyoinkoink

I want a relationship with my DB beyond my parents. I've asked my parents to stay out of this.

From what you’ve said, you didn’t have this before the move, so why do you want it now? What does he bring to your life? Were you and / or your parents consulted about his home? Or anything else to do with his life? If not, why should he get to do that for yours?

You’ve tried, he’s ignoring you, so leave him to stew.

Thank you. Like other posters have said though, I'm worried that leaving him to stew means this goes on for too long to be fixed, and that from his side he thinks we've gone LC/NC.
OP posts:
ThePurpleOctopus · 23/03/2021 09:00

@Aquamarine1029

And at the end of the day, I do want a relationship with him. So I need to fix this.

It takes all parties involved to fix a relationship, op. If your brother isn't interested, it's not going to happen.

Very true. I'm hoping he does, but if at any point he says he doesn't want this - tells me to back off, blocks me, etc., then I'll respect that and stand back. But until I know for sure, I want to keep trying.
OP posts:
ThePurpleOctopus · 23/03/2021 09:01

@ErleighBird

A similar thing happened to my partner. It really wasn't about money at all. It was about feeling left out and disregarded, it stung.
Thank you. Yes, I can see this might be it. And it won't be easy to fix.
OP posts: