Oversensitive to DH or doormat?

[boopeep76]

Been with DH for 20+ years with 2 teenage children. There have been multiple issues over the years, which have been more pressing for me in the last 2 or 3. When the kids were small I just got on with it (and to my shame) did not address things that needed addressing like lack of work ethic, DH not getting help with depression (gone on for many years), walking on eggshells around him and generally not really being me or in many ways a proper family (so many things I just did by myself when they were small and he was depressed). Things came to a head in the Autumn - he thinks it is covid - but lockdown has just shown me what my future will be when the kids have left if dramatic changes aren't made. He has made lots of promises - starts a new job this week, promised to get help when depression next hits and does not see any problem and that he is now doing everything I asked. To the outside world he is chatty, funny and adoring. There are many things now that if they happened again (or didn't happen if he said they would) that I will no longer tolerate, we will be finished. But these are the "major" things. He is in a "good place" at the moment, and thinks that this absolves everything from the past because "he's okay now" - and I guess I have asked him to do some things and need to give him the chance to prove himself with them. However tiny little things about how he thinks and reacts to things suck the joy from me and make me doubt there is any hope for the future. Some little examples - I wrapped in clingfilm (I usually use brown paper - and I wrap them so they don't spill fillings everywhere) and he had a go at me at how terrible it is for the world. This week my children bought me flowers, and I also bought some for my mum . Not something I usually have for myself or rarely buy for others and got a lecture on how terrible the cut flower industry is and why can't I enjoy flowers that are just outside. I know these sound like silly things but in a second something that made me feel good has made me feel shit. He will tell me he adores me and I am the best thing that has happened to him. But rarely a day goes past without some little thing that either feels like a dig or him thinking his opinion is more valuable and worthy than mine. My emotions are all over the place - I will have a glimmer of happiness or the though of what a great future we could have together followed by feeling like I will never really be able to be truly me or live the life I want on basis day to day things. Am I being oversensitive or a doormat?

If you said 'They make me happy and I deserve it' how do you think he would react? What do you actually do when he makes these balloon-puncturing remarks?

He is manipulating you. He says things that upset you, but then he says that he adores you to keep you on side. He has you doubting yourself.
For how long has he been promising change, and how much has changed in that time ?
When you hit resentment it’s the end.

@Skiptheheartsandflowers - sometimes I just walk away from the conversation, other times if I said I like them or it's not your decision I would either get a repeat of his opinion or told how selfish I am to care more about that than the environmental impact (the environment is one of his "things" but it does seem to be directed at what I want to do and have and of course it's different for the things he wants.....

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?.

Do you think he is actually depressed?. He has not actively sought help for any depression. Many abusive men cite depression or being depressed as an excuse/reason to keep on abusing their chosen target. It could be argued that he is depressed because he is angry, not because he is depressed. He is a joysucker of a man and I would think either one or both his parents act the same way too.

I think you've been ground down to a pulp by his ongoing abuse of you over many years. Many abusers are also quite plausible to those in the outside world so you describing his as chatty etc is not surprising. Their image to outsiders is very important to them.

Where do you see yourself in say 12 months time; still with this man?. What are you getting out of this relationship now and what are your children learning here about relationships from you two?. Is this really the model they should be seeing?. Would you want your children as adults to have a relationship like described; no you would not but currently at least you are showing them this is still acceptable to you.

He will not change; he does this because he can and this works for him. You divorcing him could well be the making of you as a family unit.

I'd have told him the flowers were for his funeral if he carried on

@AttilaTheMeerkat yes he defiantly has depression but that does not excuse the way he is when he is deep in depression and he has done nothing to help himself in regards to this over the years. Even though in lots of ways he is very different to his father (politics etc) I can totally see the similarities with behaviour in many ways. Feeling ground down is totally it - and for the first time ever (even though on paper life is good) I feel I don't have the energy to bounce back emotionally from his last depressive episode and his behaviour at the time - for him it is all in the past but it is like it I am still there. For someone who always tells me he doesn't like people that much he sure does care about what others think too. I have taken legal advise and am having counselling alone at the moment. I know loads of people will say I should just leave now - I feel like I need to know (for my own self worth) that I really have tried before going down that route.

Well, I don’t know. Setting aside the background, those two examples are not terrible.

I wanted to reduce our use of single-use plastics, so I bought beeswax wraps. My DH can’t be bothered with that and wants clingfilm. I roll my eyes and sometimes do give a bit of a “why have you bought this” when it appears in the shopping - but he’s not upset by that.

Similarly cut flowers are bad for the environment if they’re exotic stuff flown in unseasonally - I git daffodils for Mother’s Day because of this (and I bloody love them) and DH bought his mum tulips which were British. It’s a compromise everyone is happy with a s I know DH couldn’t care less about where the flowers (or the unseasonal asparagus and green beans and strawberries) come from but I do. And he’s listened and that’s nice.

I think though that our relationship is not coloured by the big stuff you’ve experienced. So obviously these small things are affected by that and that’s hard to put aside.

Ultimately if he’s promised to change and you’ve promised to give him a chance then you need to unpick if that’s actually possible for you - can you give him a chance or is it too late and everything will be an issue now, small or large? I wouldn’t judge you if you decided you couldn’t.

I often wonder this, OP, whether I'm overreacting to everything or if I'm being too soft by not making my annoyance known. When I say overreacting, I do it internally. He will do or say something that drives me mad, and I'll just walk away calmly but be seething inside, and he has no idea just how angry I am, because I don't want to make a scene. Therefore he gets away with everything and doesn't understand why I'm a bit off with him.
Not being myself, doing everything with the kids on my own, walking on eggshells, I've been through all that too. It drains you, I know x

@NoSquirrels - possibly not great examples but things that have happened in the last day or two. It is is not about the environmental thing (I do more than most I expect and am contentious in this way) but that I am made to feel small constantly or in the wrong. I would be fine with a gentle eye roll and don't expect us to agree on everything - it just seems that I am not allowed to have a different option without a real backlash about it.

@Wakingup55643

Exactly this - except I am standing my ground more now and feel like I am having to fight to be me, I know I have put myself in this position by been a doormat for years........

Stop being a doormat and see if he adjusts around you. If he can be lovely to the outside world he can be lovely to you. Work out some phrases like 'I will do as I choose' or 'would you like me to list your failings too if we are doing this' or 'you're not my boss'. Stop walking on eggshells. I personally think that you have got to the end of the road with him.

But rarely a day goes past without some little thing that either feels like a dig or him thinking his opinion is more valuable and worthy than mine.

I guess what I was trying to say was, are these things said with the intention you perceive in them? Or are you oversensitive to implied criticism because you have already put up with so much?

Only you know. But if you are suppressing your true opinions and emotions around him in order not to upset him or have a bad atmosphere, that is clearly unhealthy and needs to change.

Abuse is not only physical in nature. The phrase "walking on eggshells" is to my mind code for living in fear.

Why do you think he is depressed?. Even if he was depressed it is still no reason or justification for the ways in which you have been treated to date by him. I think he is depressed because he is angry, not because he is depressed. I note too that his father seems to be very similar. This man uses you as some sort of dumping ground to big up his own inadequate self. Its a terrible relationship model for your children to be seeing. If your now adult daughter was in such a relationship, what would your counsel to her be?.

You have a choice re this man, your children do not.

How much more trying are you going to do?. Sacrificing your own mental health and wellbeing for what?. No man is worth this amount of emotional pain.

So does he reduce his own carbon footprint?
Does he make vast steps to walk rather than drive, not eat meat, buy second hand, reduce, reuse, recycle. Dies he use dopa rather than shower gel, bars of shampoo rather than from bottles. Tubs for sandwiches rather than clingfilm, hang washing outside to dry rather than indoors?
Or dies he just have a go at you and expect you to reduce your carbon footprint?

We all have sensitivities where ever we have sensitivities. We don't get to decide. There's no such thing as over sensitive. You are as sensitive as you are. It's part of what defines you. Your sensitivities won't be the same as anybody else's, just like your preferences for foods or types of music or films or art or books or sports. Sensitivities are simply preferences and dislikes regarding people's behaviour towards you. You have as much right to be sensitive towards x or y behaviour as you do to like or dislike football or romantic comedies. Nobody can tell you you're wrong.

There will be people more sensitive than you, and people less sensitive than you. There are no legal parameters.

If somebody loves you, they will respect your sensitivities, whether they make any sense or not. For example, imagine if you were sensitive to spiders, and didn't like to be near them. If you're in the uk, that makes no sense whatsoever. There are no spiders here that can do you any harm. But somebody who loves you will quietly take a spider out of the house without mentioning it, so as not to upset you. Somebody who doesn't care about you will jump up and down and point and shout 'SPIDER! There's a spider right next to you!! HAHA!', because they know it'll upset you.

So, if you're making it clear that he's hurting you, and he keeps doing it, it's not your sensitivity that's at fault; it's his behaviour with regard to your sensitivity.

If you're not making it clear, make it clear! You don't have to 'fight to be you'. Just calmly say how you feel. 'I disagree, and that comment hurt me.' 'I have a different opinion to you. My opinion is just as valid as yours.' 'It's up to you if you think I'm selfish. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't have to agree with you.' Anything based on the fact that his opinion affects neither your opinion, nor your respect for your own opinion.

Don't have conversations or ask questions. Just quietly state how you feel. Then when he goes all lovey dovey, you can tell him it doesn't feel very loving when he does things like 'that comment this morning', or whenever.

Just get it all said. Get it out of your head and into the relationship. It's not yours to carry. He's currently just doling out crap, and you carry it round with you. He'll never change that, so you must.

Rationalising or trying to understand his views on cling film or cut flowers is a bit pointless I think. It's how he makes you feel that is the issue and it sounds like he has sucked the joy out of your life with HIS problems and you are wondering if you are the problem. Sounds like you have gone way way past the point of 'rectifying' this and he's irritating as hell. You don't seem over sensitive at all.

I think a good indication is whether a future away from this person feels possible or exciting?

He will tell me he adores me and I am the best thing that has happened to him.

Next time he says this, then ask him, if that is the case then why does he constantly nit-pick and find fault with you all the time? Tell him that if you are the best thing that has happened to him, then it's about time he started showing it, and appreciating what he's got.

@Onlinedilema - he probably does more of this stuff than a regular Joe Bloggs and is by no means a martyr with it - he is quite happy order some plastic shit from China if it for his hobby where as I would get blasted for it. It's one of the things he really picks at but there are plenty of non environmental things he does the same with - just happens that these were 2 things over 2 days that left me feeling crap.

@Eckhart - I don't think i am naturally a sensitive person anyway - friends and family would see me as confident and not easy to upset - I feel like a different person in his company quite often. I never argue/loose my temper/cry - but I am asserting myself more now but often this leads to him either playing victim or aggressor.

@Dacquoise - I feel at a crossroads - the next stage of our lives could be pretty idyllic with dreams of us running a rural business together - he says he wants all of this but I feel like for it to be a reality I would be the one to organise it, do most of the work (defiantly the admin and mental load) and finance a lot of it as well. Those plans would end if we split as I can't finance that if I had to give him 50% (this is what I have been advised most likely) - maybe this dream is what I am hanging onto more? I do know what I would do and how I would like to live without him, I have put quite a lot of thought into in.

From my own experience it's natural to want things to change but if he hasn't been the type of person you want in 20 years what makes you think it will happen now? I had all sorts of fantasies about how great it would be if only this or that would happen. Even thought about a business abroad but realistically he would have been the same person. Perhaps you can head towards your dream in a different way, without the burden of this man. You are carrying him and will continue to do so

He buys shit from China but had a go at you for receiving flowers! Seriously. I say this as someone who gave both my mum and mil flowers home grown in my garden. They weren’t great because the uk is not great for flowers right now but it was better than paying over the odds for supermarket flowers. Anyhow you need to pull him up on this. He needs to stop.

Pull him up every time and see how he likes it - You are ordering more plastic to be flown over from China hmmm? Not very eco is it/What happened to you reducing your carbon footprint?

Cut your losses op

You have created a cycle that includes him having this fictitious 2nd chance.
When really you are done and you know you are, it's the pulling the plaster off that's the final bit and it's hard. But leave it much longer and you'll talk yourself around

He's got a job and he can now support himself, so here's your time to act,
Retiring with him and running a small venture sounds lovely, with anyone but him
Though. He sounds exhausting and selfish, a joy sucker and let's you do everything

Don't give anymore of your precious life to him, he doesn't appreciate it at all
You know he doesn't

Look up “intimidator control drama” you’re living with an intimidator. He gets his energy by depleting yours.

I was sympathetic to his comments because the environmental impact is huge but not if he's a hypocrite. Reminds me of my ex going into the kids room looking for something to criticise. He would always find something - like my eldest who is very tidy, he told him off for the bin being a bit too full.

Tell him to fuck off next time and bring up the shit he buys for his hobby.

Hi OP - you say you have difficulties being assertive with him - but are learning. It takes time to shift our roles in relationships. He's probably fallen into a whinging / critical habit too and maybe doesn't realise it. Could you work on communication together e.g. be 100% specific with each other?

i.e. when you make a negative comment about the flowers or anything that makes me happy, I feel deflated, miserable and very much unloved - you are sucking the joy out of my life.

It will feel a bit awkward but it can help - likewise with positive reinforcement -

when you (whatever you like him doing... massage my shoulders/buy me a small gift that shows you are thinking of me / ask me what I'd like to do this weekend) I feel really loved and happy and am glad we are together.

Change the language to something less wank or odd sounding, but some people genuinely don't know how draining / upsetting their behaviour and comments can be.

If you do this and he continues, then he either doesn't give or shit or simply cannot change, which I guess will give you some more clarity.

@Dacquoise - are you still in your relationship now?

@Sakurami - it is that criticism thing and that I feel he wants to control me - but does it in a way that always make me out to be in the wrong. If there was ever a blanket "no you can't do that" it would be easier to challenge. It will be things like he will tell me if I am wearing something he doesn't like (I haven't asked his opinion btw) by saying why are you wearing that old thing, or that makes you look frumpy why don't you wear xyz instead. If I counter it he will say he always tells when I am looking nice so why can't he tell me when I am not. The problem is he won't tell me once, he will go on and out about it every time I wear it - like I need his approval or he gets his way in that I will stop wearing it to stop the comments. Or he expects me to go to sleep when ever he wants to. I can't finish my chapter before turning out my light or say I am coming up to bed later without being told that I am selfish as it will stop him getting to sleep and he would never do that to me (i don't have a problem if he wants to do either of these things) - fine for me to just lie in the dark wide awake though. Or he doesn't like the smell of coffee and will say it is mean if I drink it around him - his argument is I wouldn't like it if he started smoking cigars in the house! (I have drunk coffee since before we met - he has never smoked cigars...)

@Triffiddealer - I agree that firm clear communication is the way to go - but I can't quite find it in myself at the moment to be using positive reinforcement in that way - it feels like praising a child when some of our bigger issues are that he doesn't take adult responsibility enough anyway. That doesn't mean I don't already say nice things or thank for what he has done but I don't feel I can give anymore than I already am on that front at the moment.