Help me cope

[CrazyCircles]

After years of therapy, psychiatry, medicine reviews, hormone tests, and marriage counselling, there are no further reasonable options left to try to resolve my wife's aversion to sexual intimacy (intercourse, oral, sexual touching, kissing etc.).

Our latest therapist says we've reached the point where we just need to accept it and focus on enjoying what we do have, in the way of a wonderful family life with our kids. He says my wife has a psychological condition, probably trauma-related, which means that sexual intimacy has become simply impossible for her.

My wife can live with this, but I feel panicked about committing to celibacy for the rest of my life when I'm only in my forties. We discussed an open marriage, but my wife feels that she has put incredible efforts into resolving this (which is true), and that it seems harsh for me to seek sex elsewhere, or to leave the marriage, when she is just as much of a victim of this as I am, if not more. I can totally see her point.

I feel like I've lost hope that our marriage can ever be what I want it to be. And I feel incredibly guilty for wanting it to be more. And weak for not being able to cope and put her happiness first. Me feeling this way makes my wife feel guilty too, and as if she's not good enough, which is horrible for her.

I just feel completely lost.

Does she work?

I've a few women friends who married men they aren't attracted to, because they wanted the man's earning power & option to be SAHM. They were frank about gritting their teeth for sex till a couple of kids were conceived, then quitting the pretense of attraction. Tough luck for the husbands now legally, financially & socially committed.

@PerveenMistry It's sad but a lot of people settle for someone subserviant & hardworking who will provide them with their desired lifestyle & after kids come along, the shop is shut for sex. Basically, the "Beta Male" theory & this is what a lot of "red pill men" seem to be angry about that women do.

Men do it to women too - once the woman has borne his namesakes, he doesn't see her as a sexual person anymore & the wife is shunned sexually. He just wanted a cook/servant/nanny on tap & seeks sex elsewhere.

So it goes both ways. Either way it's controlling & completely inflexible to assume that just because you don't want to fuck that person anymore, that they should accept this & live like a priest/nun for the rest of their lives.

It's giving your partner a life sentence. Most people won't last a lifetime of this without engaging in at least an emotional, if not physical affair because people are human.

If you truly love someone how can you force this on them? I am as monogamous as they come but to me this is the opposite of love & shows a serious lack of empathy.

You either need to leave her or get used to wanking.
Depends what’s most important to you.
But be careful if you think the next woman your with is gonna perform for you, as sex could still be poor. Or the relationship could be poor in other ways.
I do think your wife could give you a decent BJ once a month though, as a trade off, so to speak.
In another 10 years the sex will be less important.

@gutful

monogamy
/məˈnɒɡəmi/
noun

the practice of marrying or state of being married to one person at a time

You sought out the definition you were looking for rather than the one at the top of the page. It's the literal definition of the word, from mono- (one) and gamos (marriage.) There are other definitions about animals in general, I guess, but we're humans and that's what meant by monogamy when someone is married to one person.

The reality is most people who have self esteem & know their self worth would not stay in a controlling relationship.

It's not controlling to not feel able to have sex and to not want your husband to shag other people (fidelity is in the wedding vows/what monogamy is.)

@CrazyCircles Your likening it to a legal contract to shag by the way, is the literal definition of entitlement.

Throwing good money after bad with all this therapy - what he really could benefit from is a "fleshlight" (outdated term but you know what I mean) so he can explore his sexually in a safe space. Instead of spending money on therapy it would be better spent on sex toys for himself IMO

I agree in that I had an ex who liked a sex act I didn't like. He said 'maybe you could get therapy to like X, as a lot of women like it and you could be missing out.' There are plenty of things I do like.

Another guy said I should come off antidepressants in case it made me more horny (I got really depressed when I came off them, so he didn't get any more sex than he would've done.) It wasn't a problem for me cos I didn't want sex (due to his going on about it, partly)so I wasn't missing anything.

The whole enterprise of trying to make someone want sex when they don't want it risks being somewhat unsavoury.

OP's wife would probably be happier if she were left to just be without all this pressure.

But he doesn't have a wife. He has a platonic housemate and co-parent. So the argument about "one wife" is rather moot.

They are married. He could try using that argument to his wife and see what she thinks of it. They went through a wedding ceremony and are legally married. 'You aren't shagging me so we somehow magickally are no longer married.' Erm, no. Try telling the DWP that. Are you gonna put 'single' on the census? No, because that would be factually inaccurate.

Urgh. A bj given under duress won't be what op or anyone wants!

Whenever I have lost attraction to whoever I have been with, I have lost my sex drive but found it again with my next partner . 7 years of all this focus on my sex drive would probably put me off sex forever!

Not that I am criticising- hats off to both of you for working on it so much.

I would leave a relationship that wasn't making me happy. I would rather be alone than be in a relationship where I wasn't having my emotional, mental and physical needs met.

Your kids will still have both parents and they will be fine.

I know of people who had to endure a sexless relationship for years and it really affected them badly. Not the same as being single and not having sex as being in a relationship where your partner doesnt even want to hug you!

You've both given it a good go. I can't imagine your wife magically getting her desire to have sex with you back.

I'd split. Be good parents and good friends but separately.

@SoulofanAggron

Quite the reach to assume monogamy has one meaning & a simple google will prove you're wrong to think monogamy is a term solely relating to marriage. It does have a sexual context, why are you so hell bent on proving monogamy has nothing to do with sex when in fact it does?

monogamy
/məˈnɒɡəmi/
Learn to pronounce
noun

the practice of marrying or state of being married to one person at a time.
"Judaism has journeyed from polygamy to strict monogamy"

the practice or state of having a sexual relationship with only one partner.
"younger men were more likely to stray, saying monogamy was outdated"

ZOOLOGY
the habit of having only one mate at a time.
"monogamy is rare in most animal groups, but is common among birds"

What would you know, words have multiple definitions & meanings!

I think there is a distinction in the obligation towards a marriage if one partner has chosen not to have sex, or simply can’t. Some people are regarding the wife as having made a choice. She thinks however that it’s the same as if she was in an industrial chemical accident that simply means it’s impossible for her to be touched or approached sexually (trying to think if something that leaves you otherwise physically well and capable but isn’t a mental condition). I’d be much more committed to the second in my marriage than the first. How committed I don’t know!

Bickering about the definition of monogamy may be enjoyable but it's not really getting anyone anywhere..

Basically these two people have a serious incompatibility problem.

Bollocks is it controlling for a person to no longer want sex. It's a fundamental of bodily autonomy that a person decides what they want to do with their own body.

It does leave the op with some hard choices about whether it's a dealbreaker for him. And it's all very sad and feels unfair, but that's life - relationships don't always work out the way you want or expect. And so you deal, you make those hard choices and move on.

@category12 it’s not controlling to decide you don’t want to have sex anymore. That’s just body autonomy

It’s controlling to unilaterally decide it’s off the table for your spouse to have sex ever again just because you decide you don’t want to anymore.

Especially when the relationship was previously sexual enough to bear children.

How does that work exactly? You can have bodily autonomy but you can't stop having sex because that's unilateral?!

He has a choice, to stay or to leave. They may not be great options but them's the breaks. Life can be rough.

@category12 OK will simply it for you

Deciding what you want for your own body - OK

Deciding what another person should do with their body - not OK

Simplify*

Hope that makes sense for you now !

Nobody is saying she should be forced to have sex she doesn't want

Saying it is controlling to force someone else to not have sex with anyone again because you don't want to.

It's really quite basic

But do agree that his choices are stay & accept this, or leave.

This whole years of therapy to find the apparent source of some unexplained deficiency is a waste of time.

She's not being controlling and isn't forcing him not to have sex with anyone else ever again.

He can choose to leave and seek a new relationship or choose to be unfaithful (and then probably end up getting a divorce and leaving).

She's not obliged to agree to an open relationship, if that's what you're suggesting.

It's really inappropriate to suggest this is comparable being in a genuinely controlling relationship.

It doesn't help to blame the wife or the OP in this situation.

OP - your wife is entitled to say she doesn't want/can't deal with any kind of sexual intimacy but can't deal with an open relationship and you are entitled to feel that you don’t want to spend what may be several more decades of life in a sexless relationship, particularly since the usual expectation of a marriage is that it will be a source of sexual intimacy (in a respectful and mutually fulfilling way, of course) and that this will not be provided by other relationships outside the marriage.

As Category 12 said - this is about a relationship foundering on a major incompatibility which neither partner has chosen. OP - I think it is acceptable to end a marriage in the circumstances you describe. I don't know how much time you have spent on Mumsnet but there are many threads and posts from people in equivalent situations to you who have, over time, been devastated by the long-term removal of sexual intimacy from the relationship. Some have ended it; some have stayed. But life is not a dress rehearsal - this is your one shot so you have to decide whether this is a dealbreaker for you or not. It would be a dealbreaker for me and my DH also, if he were in your shoes.

I'm sorry you are in this situation. I hope this isn't too intrusive to ask, but you say you had a "decent" sex life and she had a traumatic first birth. Have you had further children? If so, did the sex stop after the final child was conceived?

I'm asking this because could it be that she has never enjoyed sex but wanted children? She obviously loves you, but could it be that she is asexual?

Just to say as an aside, if I was in your wife's position, I would be open to the idea of an open marriage, but I would encourage separation.

@CrazyCircles

What a situation. I guess, deep down, you know this is not viable long term. She's not being selfish, she clearly can't help the way she feels and has tried everything and I get that. What I don't get is....no intimacy, at all? She can't kiss you, or just stroke you gently? Nothing? Lack of sexual desire is one thing but if she loves you, theres other ways to be close and she should naturally want to do sweet, loving things to you. I don't mean sex, or even anything remotely sexual. Just being gentle, loving, tactile with little kisses or long hugs with tickles etc.... I am waffling but you get the idea?

I am guessing that yes, you miss sex and you want it and you're panicking that you stuck in this seemingly unending situation...but what I dont get is why your DW cant show physical affection in other, softer ways....

If it were me.... honestly, I'd think I would have an affair but keep it very very discrete and make sure my affair partner knew the score...the full truth.

How much you love your wife and how desperately you want this to work pours out of your posts. You sound so sad, so defeated. I expect DW feels the same but you know, in your heart, you can't be celibate from now til the day you die. Something has to give. Eventually it will.

I realise I've offered no real advice. X

I don't know why you just don't go and see prostitute now and then and just keep quiet about it

WTF is this comment?

Maybe he doesn't want to use prostitutes because he doesn't want to buy the consent of some trafficked, abused woman?

'Just use a prostitute'. Fucks sake.

Not appearing to be rude but does your wife still fancy you?

Or has there been something within your past that she finds unable to let go of, to fancy you. ie: have you hurt her in some way and she cannot get over her hurt?
Does she love you but cannot forgive you ?

Apologies if this is not the case.

Only you can decide if you're happy to be celibate forever, there's no way I would be.

If it's sexual trauma it doesn't make sense that everything was fine to begin with and now it isn't.

I'm just going to blunt - you're there to provide a lifestyle. If she wanted to have sex with you she would.

@gutful has absolutely nailed it, great post.

If it's sexual trauma it doesn't make sense that everything was fine to begin with and now it isn't.

That's not the case. Sometimes historical issues are pushed down/asid/are managed by the victim, only come to the surface/unmanageable later in life, often triggered by life events like having children. A traumatic birth experience could certainly spark something, and you just kind of realise how bloody awful it was and how abnormal it was to be treated like that as a child when you look into the faces of your own children and see yourself as a child.

I can definitely see how that could happen category although in this instance I call bullshit due to the fact the wife can't seem to remember any traumatic events.

They've essentially spent 20k and the best part of a decade coming up with various angles for her to bluff her way out of sex because she doesn't want to do it.

After all it's always more palletable if there's an excuse.

What a difficult situation. I have to say I agree with other posters that you have the option of an amicable separation where you two find what works for you. If she does not want intimacy then that leaves friendship and mutual respect. Well you don't need to be married to have that. You can divide your assets and find a way to co-parent with mutual affection and respect whilst being free to seek out your other needs.

There is a resolution here where you can both find a place you're happy with. It is nobody else's business to know why you divorced. You can both preserve your privacy and dignity if you agree to it together.