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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Handhold...is this abuse?

45 replies

Lostmyway86 · 12/03/2021 20:35

I've been married for just over a year and have two baby DDs with DH. He has two older children with his ex and they had a toxic break up. I came onto the scene 2 months after they split so was unfortunately around for everything re. selling of their house, custody arrangements for DSC etc. Right from the start I was led to believe ex was a narcissistic, toxic person. His friends (men and women) backed this up as did his family. Also ex's behaviour appeared extremely volatile and toxic. I was so in love I chose to believe his version of the story, we married and had two daughters in the space of 4 years.

Rewind 1 year and his ex wanted to change custody from 50/50 to 1 night a week and EOW. He refused and it ended up in court. That's when shit really hit the fan. She had him arrested for historical domestic abuse and a 20 page document detailing all the 'abuse' was posted through our letter box. I was pregnant at the time and it was horrendous. She accused him on emotional, physical, sexual violence and even physical violence against his child. The police dropped the case seeing no reason to prosecute but the courts agreed to her custody request.

Obviously reading that document planted a seed. There was bits about me where he'd supposedly tried to get her back when we'd been in a relationship which he obviously denied. However, it's the little digs that I used to brush off as banter that are now like red flags. He says I'm useless at everything, that I've still got a long way to go with regards to my weight loss since DD2. He ignores most of what I say and says it's because I'm boring. It's all done in jokey ways but it chips away. He's also raised his fist in arguments but never actually hit me. I'm now starting to wonder if the ex isn't the psycho she's been painted as and whether her statement has truth. He says it's all to do with getting what she wants which is why she waited 5 years to bring it up. I'm just so confused. I feel totally overwhelmed with life with 2 children and 2 babies as it is. I just feel I've been led a merry dance by both of them...

OP posts:

vomcomvomcom · 12/03/2021 20:38

Sending you good energy, this sounds hard! If his ex IS truly narcissistic then she might have made all this up to create drama. She obviously had no regards for your feelings/being pregnant when she delivered the dossier through your door. However, Your DH sounds like a rude twat - sack him off if he won’t accept you as you are. Life’s too short to waste on someone who makes you feel bad about yourself.

tobedtoMNandfart · 12/03/2021 20:40

Good partners do not raise their fists to their partners. Sorry.

Original poster

Lostmyway86 · 12/03/2021 20:49

He also calls me 'nuts' all the time. Because I struggle with sleep. Because I like the babies in a routine. Because I joined an NCT class. I could go on.....'nuts' is the term he used constantly for his ex. Honestly if we didn't have children I wouldn't stay. But I have 2 young babies....it's not easy to walk away.

OP posts:

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 20:51

Fuck me, raising his fist? Well that's a massive red flag. Would be all is need to be off.

Clearly a threat to hit you.

Bolt.

Goawayquickly · 12/03/2021 20:52

His fist raising is an act of violence, it's a clear threat and warning. He is violent.

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 20:53

The kids are more of a reason to leave. Imagine them seeing his behaviour and growing up thinking its normal for men to belittle and threaten women.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/03/2021 20:54

However, it's the little digs that I used to brush off as banter that are now like red flags. He says I'm useless at everything, that I've still got a long way to go with regards to my weight loss since DD2. He ignores most of what I say and says it's because I'm boring. It's all done in jokey ways but it chips away.

Where are the jokes in this list? How can he say those things in a jokey way when they aren't funny at all?

He isn't joking, he's telling you exactly what he thinks of you. He's a bully and you deserve better.

It doesn't matter if he was / wasn't abusive to his ex. He IS abusive to you.

The only acceptable level of abuse is none. It's not a joke if one person is mocking and the other one is upset - it's bullying.

Yellowfish2020 · 12/03/2021 20:55

It's not easy, but it's possible. And possibly better than what could be ahead of you if you stay. I had a similar situation where I thought his ex wife was the crazy one and now just wish I'd seen it as a red flag as she was totally right! I would also agree that the man you should be with would never raise a fist during an argument, but that's something I've only learned from my current relationship and understand it's very very hard to have perspective whilst you're 'in it'.
I was lucky enough to have family I could go to - even if just sleeping on floors. Do you have somewhere you can go?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/03/2021 20:55

And he's raised his fist to you.

Having two babies should now make it easier to walk away, not harder. I know that sounds trite and simplistic but you cannot raise your children in an abusive environment (which this is) and expect them to come out unscathed.

Please don't stay in this relationship. Leave for them if not for you.

He will snap. Either against you or against them. You have a choice, they don't.

Original poster

Lostmyway86 · 12/03/2021 20:58

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Where are the jokes in this list? How can he say those things in a jokey way when they aren't funny at all?

He isn't joking, he's telling you exactly what he thinks of you. He's a bully and you deserve better.

It doesn't matter if he was / wasn't abusive to his ex. He IS abusive to you.

The only acceptable level of abuse is none. It's not a joke if one person is mocking and the other one is upset - it's bullying.

It's really difficult to explain written down how it is said. So I might be saying something and I'll say 'are you even listening' and he'll say 'well I might if it wasn't so boring' but in a jokey way. Obviously sounds awful written but he manages to do it in a 'banter way'. Or I'll say 'I lost 2 pounds this week' and he'll be like 'you definite look slimmer....still a long way to go' in a jokey voice. If I get annoyed he'll say 'why do you always fall for it, I'm clearly winding you up. You should tell me to f* off'. Almost5 putting the blame back on me. It's a head fuck...

OP posts:

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/03/2021 20:59

Oh and he didn't like you joining an NCT class in case you spoke to other mums or professionals about your relationship and they made you realise how fucking awful he is.

BaggoMcoys · 12/03/2021 21:00

My biggest regret is that I waited for 4 years before leaving my abusive ex. His ex was a "psycho" too.

AnxietyForever · 12/03/2021 21:02

What kind of father is he?

Original poster

Lostmyway86 · 12/03/2021 21:02

If I leave he'll likely have the babies 50/50 so surely they'd be at bigger risk than without me here...plus my youngest DSD is so rough with them that I can't trust her alone with them whereas DH will happily leave them alone in a room with her.

OP posts:

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/03/2021 21:03

OP, let's think of it this way. If you spoke to him in a way that upset him and made him feel shit about yourself and he told you that's how it made him feel, would you continue to do it repeatedly?

No, because you aren't a bully.

People who say "I was winding you up" don't seem to realise what they are actually saying is "I enjoy watching you be uncomfortable / I find it funny when you're upset / I like feeling your pain"

My partner and I tease each other, lovingly, with in jokes and affection. He certainly doesn't comment I need to lose weight etc. Because he's not a prick.

Don't raise your children in an environment where they learn it's ok for women to bully women and it's women's responsibility to not react to it.

You are equals. He is not in charge of what is funny or acceptable to you.

Please consider leaving him before your children start to be more affected by this dynamic.

Original poster

Lostmyway86 · 12/03/2021 21:04

@AnxietyForever

What kind of father is he?

A good one. But as mentioned above I don't trust one of my DSC with the babies. I would never leave her alone with them whereas DH would. I'm not sure I could cope with that if we split

OP posts:

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/03/2021 21:13

He's not a good father.

He didn't want the mother of his children to attend NCT classes. Why?

He's happy to leave his smaller children unsupervised with an older child who is rough. Why?

He bullies the mother of those children making her feel anxious and shit. Why?

Because he's a bully who puts himself before his family unit.

Good dads do not abuse the mother of their children emotionally, verbally, physically, sexually whatsoever.

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 21:20

@Lostmyway86

Still better than them growing up seeing him abuse you. At least they have a happy home 50% of the time rather than none of the time. With a happy mother. Who isnt being abused and who shows them that women shouldnt stay and tolerate it.

partyatthepalace · 12/03/2021 21:22

‘However, it's the little digs that I used to brush off as banter that are now like red flags. He says I'm useless at everything, that I've still got a long way to go with regards to my weight loss since DD2. He ignores most of what I say and says it's because I'm boring. It's all done in jokey ways but it chips away. He's also raised his fist in arguments but never actually hit me..’

I’m not seeing any little digs here OP, everything you are listing is abuse - and it will only get worse as he grinds you down. He is not a good father - good fathers don’t abuse their children’s mother.

If you aren’t ready to prepare to leave, take a look at the Freedom Programme. Once you do feel ready call women’s aid as a good starting point. Don’t discuss leaving with him - he’ll frighten you and bully you by threatening to take the children and other things he won’t be able to do - just make your plans, take legal advice, and go when you’re ready.

When you are able write a list of all this abusive behaviour, and keep a record of it from now on. Which ever member of his ex’s family dropped that through your door did you a favour. Whether she is toxic or not is not relevant. He is abusive.

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 21:23

Also seriously do you think making yourself a martyr fby staying with an assholre for 20 years would make you a good mum?

Imagine if your mum stayed with an abuser for 20 years because of you and you had to watch it all that time and then realise you were the reason she stayed. You'd be mortified!

Original poster

Lostmyway86 · 12/03/2021 21:37

@partyatthepalace

Thank you. I don't feel ready right now. My babies are 20 months and 4 months, I'm barely coping as it is. I will need to bide my time. But I will follow your steps when ready. I think it was the court that sent the document then two days later he was arrested in the evening while bathing my baby. I was 12 weeks pregnant and the shock and stress of it led me to bleed heavily and I thought I had lost my baby. Whether what she wrote was true or lies, to wait until I married him and had a child and was pregnant wirh another to deliver the bombshell is cruel in my eyes. Especially after I'd loved and cared for her children for 3 years. Anyway guess none of that matters now I just need to focus on me and my children.

OP posts:

EarthSight · 12/03/2021 21:40

'He's also raised his fist in arguments but never actually hit me.'

That should be a fuckitybye from you. How dare he do that. Loser.

EarthSight · 12/03/2021 21:45

Oh bless you. The 'nuts' comment is a massive sign. I don't think you're nuts. He's just trying to erode your confidence and make you doubt your own decisions and actions by saying this. He wants you to feel helpless, incapable of navigating the world without him being there to save you from your stupidity. Get out of this toxic relationship. Even calling it a relationship is almost a joke at this point.

Poolbridge · 12/03/2021 21:57

@Wanderlusto

The kids are more of a reason to leave. Imagine them seeing his behaviour and growing up thinking its normal for men to belittle and threaten women.

This.

I made a plan to leave when I had a 2 year old daughter and was 5 months pregnant with my second child and the abuse was escalating. I realised it would never get better and was so conscious of the increasing impact the abuse was going to start to have on my eldest DD. You need to be an example for your DC. It is not ok. And frankly it is better for your DC and easier for them to adjust, the younger they are when you make the change.

Lundy Bancroft’s book gave me the total resolve to make the change I needed to make: ‘Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men’. All indecision I had evaporated after I read this, after 8-9 years of wavering. Please try and obtain a copy and read it .

You can do this. And deep down you know you need to do this, having initiated this conversation.

Please have courage. Your instinct is right.

Original poster

Lostmyway86 · 13/03/2021 08:12

@Poolbridge what age were they when you left? Or did you leave before the youngest was born? As awful as it sounds, and I love her to death, but I feel like having my second child has trapped me for years. I don't think I could cope alone with them so young.

OP posts:

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