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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband gets angry when I ask for help with baby at night time

64 replies

SheWouldNever · 12/03/2021 11:03

Apologies in advance, this is going to be really long as I don't want to drip feed.

This is our fourth baby, so the territory of crap sleep in the first year or two is very familiar. But so is my husband getting angry when I ask him to step in to help during the occasional bad night with our babies. It's been this way since baby number 1, I have a memory of being abit frightened at him punching a wall in anger after I asked him to step in because I was struggling tosettle the baby.

There's no violencetowards me, but door slamming is quite common, mostly it's harsh words and a bad temper about the situation. I never really know how a request for help is going to be received, so I rarely ask, and most of the time that works fine - I co-sleep with our babies and most nights I manage fine alone, it's just the occasional few where it's been a tiring / overly stressful week, or baby is just having a bad night and I'm overwhelmed. He is very involved in all other aspects of family life, he does all the cooking and cleaning, is very involved with the children, it's just the baby stage that is largely my area, as I breastfeed and find co-sleeping easier. Just trying to set the scene to explain that i don't need him to pull his weight more in general, but I do need him to not immediately go from 0 to cross words when I ask for his help at night with the baby.

Last night as an example: I gave him forewarning that this week might see a grouchier than usual me and / or baby, as school runs restarting means baby's entire day routine is going to change overnight, so this week might be a little unsettled, and I may need to ask for his help and we might need to adjust our family evening / bedtime routine accordingly. The two nights previous I had fallen asleep on the sofa in between resettling a baby who hates sleeping in their own cot without me there, before he'd finished cooking our dinner. The baby then had really unsettled sleep from the moment I got into bed. So he knew I was getting increasingly tired. We'd spoken about it, and on night 3 (last night) we had adjusted dinner to be earlier so I could go to bed earlier.

Baby had other plans as they always do, so the evening actually consisted of me spending numerous attempts settling him atbedtime, wolfing down dinner in between wake ups before deciding I might as well call it a night, bring baby into bed with me so we could both sleep. All of this is a pretty standard evening for me with a 7 month old, what was unexpected was the next bit. Baby wouldn't settle, Dh was still awake reading downstairs, so I text him to ask if he could come and try settling the baby by walking him round the room. (I wouldn't normally ask if he had already gone to sleep, as that makes him really cross, but when he's still awake it's usually OK). The light of my phone seemed to distract baby, and they stopped crying and nodded off next to me. By the time he read the text and came up, baby had fallen asleep, and I was stuck not wanting to move or put the phone away just yet in case it awoke baby again. 10 minutes later, baby was awake again, so I asked again for DH to step in so I could just try and sleep a bit (('d been attempting to go to bed for an hour at this point).

DH was immediatelyangry and accusatory, saying no wonder baby isn't sleeping when you have your phone out over theirface. (AKA I haven't tried hard enough to get baby to sleep and why am I bothering him with this?) I attempted to explain what had happened (why do I even have to try and justify my actions, I don't know), but in his eyes I was still clearly in the wrong somehow. More angry words were directed at me, and at this point I just want him to go away and not wake the other children (baby wideawake by this point) so I defeatedly say "Look, I'm sorry, I'm just really really tired". To which DH responds "Well then we shouldn't have had a baby". It ends with him saying "Fine, I'll take baby", he slams the door shut and I don't see them again until morning, but he did send a text to apologise for saying what he said about having our baby.

What could have been an amazing night's sleep ends up me unable to sleep for ages, lying there feeling crap about myself and the situation in general.

This morning I took the kids to school and really didn't want to come back to the house, but it's lockdown and it's raining and there's nowhere to go. We've rehashed the same old post-argument ground where I say I don't feel I can ask for help because I'm always bracing myself for your anger, he has said "Well, I apologisedAND I helped out all night", so now I feel I'm stuck in a position where I should supposedly feel grateful and be thanking him that he helped out all night, as if that OKs the angry behaviour and the fact I don't feel secure asking him for help at night with the baby when I need it. (For the record, he didn't apologise for his behaviour or for being angry, he apologised for saying we shouldn't have had a baby).

It's like we can't even have a rational conversation about this without him immediately getting defensive and angry. This morning, he walked away and doesn't want to discuss it further - so I'm left with no reassurances that the exact same thing won't happen again next time , or that he's willing to listen and learn from his behaviour and how it makes me feel. I am left having to forget it and move on, because he refuses to talk about it more, and even if he did, I doubt he could do it in a calm way.I'm left with more evidence and conviction that he will react the exact way I anticipate he will when these situations arise.

I am no stranger to the stresses of the early years with babies, the odd argument and saying harsh things to each other is going to happen in a moment of stress, but this is as predictable as clockwork and I don't know how to make it better. It doesn't feel like 'normal' arguing, and I'm pretty sure my friends with babies aren't experiencing this (or maybe it is more normal than I think?!) DH has this same personality trait as his mum, as they can both move from fine to very snappy and very snidey in an instant. Whereas it's not in my nature to direct anger at another person, I show my emotions, but it's never AT someone or by putting someone else down.When this happens with DH, at best it makes me feel really crap, and at worst it makes me feel a little afraid of him and afraid to ask for his help.

I don't really know why I'm writing this here other than just to vent. We have a nice time together the rest of the time, and mostly we come to some kind of resolution over it the next day, but a few occasions have left me feeling very sad and affected by it for quite a long time afterwards.

Because I know someone is going to say it, please don't say it's the baby'sroutine / co-sleeping or the number of kids we have that's the problem. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't an excuse for continual angry behaviour.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/03/2021 11:29

What you're describing here is domestic violence within the home and you're describing examples of this. It also sounds like over the years you've become almost completely desensitised and otherwise inured to his abuses of you and in turn your children. Which was his intention all along really; he likes seeing your emotional pain and discomfort. You cannot protect yourself from his verbal abuse and your children are in turn being subjected to all this abuse.

What do you think its like for them growing up in such a household?. Its absolutely horrible and its a dynamic they could grow up to repeat themselves. What do you get out of this relationship?.

Your H is very much like his mother (her behaviours have been copied by him) and she also has not changed has she?. Nor will your H; he does this also because he can and you are still there under the same roof.

He also has a problem with anger, your anger, when you call him out on his unreasonable behaviours. He can in all likelihood control himself around others as well, he does not shout at work colleagues like he does to you or punches walls in front of them does he?. No. So he does not have an anger management problem. Besides which AM courses are no answer to domestic violence.

Abusers are not horrible all the time but what you're seeing from him as well now is the nice/nasty cycle of abuse and that is a continuous one.

How can you be helped into leaving this man?. Would you be willing to contact the likes of Womens Aid?.

ravenmum · 12/03/2021 11:43

Is this really the only situation in which you feel bad about yourself or afraid of his reaction?

He acts like this because it means you won't "bother" him with any further requests for him to act like a father. How else - in what other situations - does he get to do what he fancies by bullying you?

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 11:49

He didnt 'help out all night' its HIS baby. What does he want am award for taking care of his own baby? I'd be expressing my milk into a bottle and telling him he can take the job looking after the baby from now on and I'll focus on the cooking and cleaning.

That being said, not sure that would be wise considering the guy punches holes in walls. The only ppl who do that are sociopaths and similar fyi.

It's a threat. His yelling and his rage and his violence against objects. It means 'this is what I could do to you'. And that anger he displays put of the blue, even when he hasn't been woke - is not because he is angry, it's to intimidate you and put you exactly where you are at now- frightened to ask him for anything. Walking on egg shells.

Pp is right, it is abuse. And I suspect if you look back you will see other signs of it over the years.

You you have family or friends that can help you with the kids if you were to leave him?

Viviennemary · 12/03/2021 12:46

I don't have four children. Because I couldn't have coped. You are in a difficult situation now and it is what it is. Of course both of you will be grouchy from lack of sleep. You just need to both do the best you can under the circumstances.

Devlesko · 12/03/2021 12:50

He shouldn't be helping out they're his kids, and his baby. He obviously doesn't want to be a parent.
Better off on your own than with this poor excuse for husband and father.
Your kids deserve better, whether you think you do or not, you do, too.

idontlikealdi · 12/03/2021 12:58

As far as I'm concerned, there isn't an excuse for continual angry behaviour.

You've answered your own question right there. Why put up with it?

ivfbeenbusy · 12/03/2021 12:59

There were points last night where I could have written your post OP. I don't get shouting though from DH - he does what I call "aggressive sniffing" and stomps around banging things louder than necessary

We have an older child and newborn twins. I gave up asking for support a while ago - the foul mood/person he becomes the next day because he can't deal with interrupted sleep isn't worth the hassle.

These were much fought for babies too - after 7 losses and 5 rounds of IVF - but I actually feel like a single parent at the moment

I don't really have any advice as I'm trying to figure my own way through this too - all I can offer is solidarity - I'll save this thread so that in the wee hours when neither of us are sleeping we can commiserate each other on how we've ended up at this point 🤣

At the moment I'm keeping my cool as he is the one working full time and I'm on maternity leave - but I go back to work full time when the twins are 20 weeks old and at that point something is going to have to change x

partyatthepalace · 12/03/2021 13:21

Really sorry you are having a tough time OP.

Is this definitely the only space in which he is aggressive to you? Do you feel you can express yourself freely to him the rest of the time without fear of his reaction - really??

If you do, then that’s something. In which case can you talk to him about finding a time when you can talk to each other about this issue when you are both feeling less tired? His anger and aggression are abusive, and he needs to hear how it makes you feel - and the he needs to own it and agree to do something about it. If he won’t, then you have a bigger problem, as it will just take different shapes and grow.

If he will, then that’s good, and there are online anger management courses he can do.

He is the person behaving badly here, but I also think that in order to move forward to a better place you do need to be willing to hear his feedback. If that feedback is that he’d like to try to get the baby into more of a sleeping routine, then I think it makes sense to be open to that. Different methods suit different people, but it does sound like an unstructured approach may not be helping here. To be clear, it is your DH’s responsibility to control his behaviour, but it makes sense to try and make the environment as supportive as possible, and obviously four children create a lot of demands.

SheWouldNever · 12/03/2021 14:18

@partyatthepalace the thing is, a more structured approach would probably lead to more instances where I have to unexpectedly call on him in the night. The co-sleeping means it’s very rare that I need him, and I think the more unexpected night time disturbances of a child that sleeps better but still occasionally wakes and has bad nights would lead to more of these moments of stress for my DH. Our eldest had a more structured night time routine in his own room, but he was an awful sleeper and what that really meant was me up and down countless times a night, getting incredibly poor sleep and not wanting to ask my DH for help unless I was absolutely desperate. We also both know that the bad baby sleep phase is temporary, as we’ve come out the other side of this three times before. So even if it is stressful for him, he knows it’s temporary - why can’t he just deal with it until that point?

Is this definitely the only space in which he is aggressive to you? Do you feel you can express yourself freely to him the rest of the time without fear of his reaction - really??

Yes, this is the only space where this happens. I frequently express my opinions to him the rest of the time and don’t feel he is going to rage out on me.

The only exception to this was one time when he was very drunk and got cross with me because I told him to do something and he wasn’t happy with it There was no getting through to him so I stopped talking to him and then that made him more cross. This was in front of the kids. That was the one incident that made me feel really sad for a long time. And was something I’d never seen in him before. We talked it over the next day and he was very remorseful, even though he couldn’t remember anything so he said he would “have” to believe me (I said to him that it doesn’t matter what you think happened or not and whether it was justified, all you have to listen to is that I was scared”. I said that I won’t put up with that if it happens again. That was 1.5 yrs ago.

Today he is going about his day chatting to me about other stuff, as if he has totally moved on. But I feel sad because I haven’t moved on. I will try and find a moment when the kids aren’t around and I’m not dealing with the baby to talk to him about it again and try and get him to understand that it doesn’t matter what happened, but that his behaviour makes me feel scared.

Anger management courses is a good shout. We had discussed doing couples therapy in the past but I hadn’t thought about anger management.

OP posts:
Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 14:19

He isnt angry though op. He is abusive.

SheWouldNever · 12/03/2021 14:21

@ivfbeenbusy it is a really stressful time, I’m sorry you are finding it difficult. The way you described your husband huffing about is quite similar to mine, it’s not really shouty but definitely huffy and definitely directed at me.

OP posts:
ineedaholidaynow · 12/03/2021 14:25

Why had you thought about couple therapy in the past? Because of a similar issue with a previous baby or something else

SheWouldNever · 12/03/2021 14:26

@Wanderlusto today he has offered to take the baby all night like he did last night when I need sleep. But that’s not what I want, I want us to talk about why he reacts in anger in these situations and I want him to apologise / own up to it and do better in future. We haven’t really resolved anything today and I’m still mulling over what I want to say to him.

OP posts:
Bananalanacake · 12/03/2021 14:28

Sorry if this is a personal question, but you have 4 children, did he pressure you into having more. I have read on here that abusive men sometimes do this to make it more difficult for you to leave.

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 14:33

[quote SheWouldNever]@Wanderlusto today he has offered to take the baby all night like he did last night when I need sleep. But that’s not what I want, I want us to talk about why he reacts in anger in these situations and I want him to apologise / own up to it and do better in future. We haven’t really resolved anything today and I’m still mulling over what I want to say to him.[/quote]
Do you really think he has the capacity to do that? Or the desire to?

I think you cant really expect a man who thinks punching holes in walls and making the mother of his child feel like shit when she is trying her best, to show any long term change or empathy.

More likely he won't want to 'resolve' things - and you'll just be made put to be a dog with a bone. Accused of being oversensistive or overdramatic or crazy.

You should never have to talk to someone about how their completely unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable. If you find yourself doing this, you are more like than not, in an abusive relationship.

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 14:34

*made out

SheWouldNever · 12/03/2021 14:35

@ravenmum Yes this is the only situation where I am wary about his reaction. Regarding your other question:

How else - in what other situations - does he get to do what he fancies by bullying you? There is nothing that springs to mind.

OP posts:
SheWouldNever · 12/03/2021 14:39

@Wanderlusto well, he didn’t manage to punch a hole in the wall, but I hear your other points Grin I don’t know how he will react when I talk to him, but I will bring it up again and we will see his reaction then.

OP posts:
ineedaholidaynow · 12/03/2021 14:50

@SheWouldNever you seem to be minimising his behaviour with your emoji in response to Wanderlusto.

In the last couple of days many women have been talking about men's behaviour, this is an example of behaviour that is not acceptable, and shouldn't be accepted.

How old are your other children? Did they witness this behaviour too?

Wanderlusto · 12/03/2021 14:55

Tbf probably a 'if you dont laugh you have to cry' attitude. I hope that op is taking things seriously. There has to be an element of denial that 2I'll take stages to work through because immediate realisation that this is not an ok relationship would mean so many other issues to deal with at a time where she is struggling to keep her head above the water.

Hopefully the seed of realisation will grow alongside her strength and resolve to get out though. Should his behaviour prove to be what we suspect.

But ppl have to realise things in their own time.

SheWouldNever · 12/03/2021 15:00

@ineedaholidaynow the emoji isn’t directed at my husband’s behaviour, it is directed as a friendly response to my correcting the previous poster who had said twice that he punched a hole in the wall - this did not happen and was not what I wrote. I do realise it’s not really the Mumsnet way to be friendly, though. I’d rather have less scrutiny on my words and more practical advice on my situation.

Which behaviour are we talking about when you ask what did my children witness? The wall punching was when my eldest was 6 months old and he was not in the room. The other behaviour I have mentioned, I have already stated if the kids were there or not.

OP posts:
ravenmum · 12/03/2021 15:06

So punching a wall is OK as long as it doesn't make a hole?
I can see this thread is not going to give you any answers you want, OP. Good luck.

ineedaholidaynow · 12/03/2021 15:12

Does your DH get up in the night if one of the older children is sick @SheWouldNever

ivfbeenbusy · 12/03/2021 15:30

I want us to talk about why he reacts in anger in these situations and I want him to apologise / own up to it and do better in future.

I've tried this over the years and in my experience DH reacts even worse if there is any hint of criticism about his behaviour. He doesn't apologise for anything unless I drag it out of him. We've been together 15 years of he hasn't changed already he isn't going to change now. I used to get upset and obsess about getting a sorry out of him

It does sound like he offers help when pushed and whilst he doesn't verbalise his apologies he is showing he is sorry in other ways? Perhaps when you speak to him you need to word it on such a way that it is less accusatory so that he feels like you are criticising his behaviour to more "going forward can you do x y z"

partyatthepalace · 12/03/2021 15:43

Structure - I hear you

Yep, first thing as you say is to find a time you can express how this makes you feel, and that you need him to own and change it - anger management courses can be done online. If you have a Google there are ones aimed at men.

I’m glad you don’t feel cowed by him generally, but I think it’s really important to push back now because teenagers ate often a bloody sight more stressful than babies, so challenging parenting could be with you for the next two decades.

As previous, if he won’t act now to improve things, then I do think you have a bigger issue on your hands.

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