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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

For those with "difficult" mothers, why do you think they are that way?

71 replies

merrynelly · 11/03/2021 20:37

Inspired by a thread relating to Mothers Day cards, and also that I've been reflecting on my relationship with my Mother a hell of a lot since having my own child recently, I have been wondering why my Mother is the way she is.

She is a very cold woman, who exhibits traits of narcissism and emotionally abused me heavily throughout my childhood. I'm confident she is not even remotely aware of how unkind and damaging her behaviour is, and in fact thinks she's a wonderful mother.

The only reasoning which makes sense to me is that her parents were very similar and treated her poorly to say the least and so it is generational trauma I believe. I just wondered if this was the same for others or if there are other factors at play?

OP posts:
scentedgeranium · 12/03/2021 07:09

I think peoples' pasts define them. My mother is 80 and is in fact capable of great empathy and kindness. But she is also capable of mind blowing lying and manipulation. My sister's mantra is 'she's always right and never wrong'. And she will twist and manipulate in order to make events fit her actions or worldview. As a result neither of us are able to be honest and open with her.
But she was born in 1940, into working class respectability. her father was killed in 1943. Her mother remarried out of financial and respectable necessity a few years later. She and dad built up a successful business but she always felt like a middle class outsider and didn't gel with anyone. no friends. No social confidence. I feel sorry for her really. But she has caused much pain with her behaviour. It's as if she hasn't realised that you just have to be nice and honest and people will like you and do what you want anyway; lying really isn't necessary!
So these days I treat her with kindness. But also caution!

JohnMcCainsDeathStare · 12/03/2021 07:14

Woebegonad How is that supposed to be helpful to anyone?

ContessaDiPulpo · 12/03/2021 07:15

Oh, I'm sure my mother was fucked up by my grandmother and grandfather's somewhat odd views on life. I never knew my grandmother that well (there was always something of a facade) but my dad hinted darkly at my grandfather being scared of her and how she was the dominant force in the family. My mother had her own demons (she could be nasty, bitchy, petty, jealous) but I think at least some of the passive aggressive horror was a mental response to her own childhood.

I'm also pretty damn confident she had undiagnosed autism and that she often just Did Not Twig that other people had human feelings, even her own children. That last one I sympathise with a little, as I think I probably missed a diagnosis too. However, the experience I've had being her daughter has given me a valuable perspective into what not to do with my own kids. I actively think things like 'I haven't hugged them in a while; I will do that now so they associate hugs with random happiness, rather than just being something you're forced to do whilst filled with burning resentment after an argument'.

So.... Yeah. I think in my case there was a fuck load of generational trauma. I'm trying to not let it all play out the same with my own DC though.

EveningsInTheSummerhouse · 12/03/2021 07:20

My mother experienced a trauma in her teens which left her with disabilities. It undoubtedly had a huge impact on her life.

The impact of these was exacerbated during her pregnancy with me when she was barely recovered from the incident and not healed from the trauma, along with suffering HG and losing a parent. As a result, I became the focus of all the things that had gone wrong for her and she blamed and punished me for everything from having to endure HG and pregnancy related health conditions/disability a second time in order to give me a sibling; to my dad's affair.

She would phone my (now ex) husband when she knew I was out of the house to try and bring him round to her way of thinking. Over the years she had convinced herself that I was responsible for all the bad things that had happened to her since I was born and the reason she hadn't been able to escape the bad things that happened before I was born. She would tell him about these when she called - most he already knew of. He was great and defended me but that only made her angry towards him.

She felt that I was able to pull the wool over people's eyes into thinking i was a normal, decent person in everyday life. She truly believed that he would have seen the side of me that she saw and felt she would have an ally in him. We'd known him since I was 16 so he had seen all the dynamics in my family at home and beyond and knew the truth.

I spent 37 years having every single aspect of me from the colour of my hair right down to the size of my feet (and everything in between) criticised. Every aspect of my personality and character pulled apart. She has spent lifetime trying to convince people that I am the root of all her ills and gain sympathy to the point of trying to get me diagnosed with serious psychiatric conditions and involving SS when my eldest was a baby. She deliberately sabotaged me throughout my life and then tried to use the 'fall put' as evidence I was mentally unstable when I was really just constantly recovering from an series of her having pulled the rug out from underneath me.

Its had a massive impact on my life. I had married my best friend not a man I loved or fancied and my marriage was loveless and sexless (despite his defence of me and a generally good friendship). Even now, I have never worked anywhere for more than 18 months because I fear people getting to know me and seeing the person she saw. I have few, transient friendships because I struggle to believe I'm liked or that I can sustain friendships for any length of time. I'm single because i internalised all the things she said about me and i can't imagine myself in a real relationship. I have one foot out of the door of every situation - job, friendship, relationship, so I can escape if it gets too much or when I realise they view me as she did.

I tried for years to repair/build the relationship between myself and her but her hatred and resentment of me had distorted her thinking and priorities to the point where she couldn't and eventually became a risk to my children (genuine and recognised by the LA and police - not that she gave them biscuits against my wishes). We havent had contact for 9 years.

I pity her.

OutComeTheWolves · 12/03/2021 07:28

I'm probably totally over generalising here but I've noticed a lot of mh problems in the generation brought up by those who fought in the war (many of whom themselves would've been suffering from ptsd etc).

A lot of my friends parents, mothers in particular, seem to suffer terribly with depression, anxiety etc. And I genuinely believe it shows how trauma can be passed down through the generations.

Swipeleftagain · 12/03/2021 07:51

I agree and I think my generation suffer too but we’re much better at acknowledging and addressing it. Maybe we will be the ones to break the cycle.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 12/03/2021 07:53

@Woebegonad

I never want her to feel about me like I do about my mother.

The only way to ensure this is to not have kids. My DM isn't a patch on many of yours, but I never wanted a DD to judge and analyse me in the way I did her. Many of your daughters will go LC, VLC with you. You'll never understand why.

She might and you're right I won't.

However...

I don't beat her up.
I don't give her the silent treatment for days.
I don't call her the "enemy".
I don't tell her she's fat and get her dad to chime in with her opinions on fat women.
I don't turn her against her father and her father against her.
I don't emotionally and mentally abuse her.
I don't ignore when she's harmed or assaulted ,or worse tell her it's her fault.
I tell her she's loved and that I'm proud of her.
I don't make it painfully obvious that no matter how hard she tries she's not good enough.
I won't send her to a man that I KNOW is a sexual predator and just assume she'll be safe because in my eyes she's fat or unattractive or whatever or simply hope for the best.

I'm sure I still fuck up in many other ways ,but I'm trying my best not to harm my child. Will she judge and analyse anyways? Probably. I can live with that.

garden4569 · 12/03/2021 07:55

My mother is a tough northern woman who fundamentally has always felt she is unlovable. I think she took pleasure in making me feel ashamed as a child and when I was a young adult for having normal desires or sexual cutlriisity.
Very focused on women's rights but unable to open up on a personal level or to speak to me on much more than a superficial level.
Shes complicated and at times I have struggled to understand her.

garden4569 · 12/03/2021 08:05

@Miffyliffy

My mother was extremely physically abusive (think prisoner of war type of treatment but not reaching death obviously), emotionally abusive, allowed the ongoing sexual abusive of me for 9 years and when I would tell her she would physically assault me, psychologically abusive etc.

We didn't know any different, I loved her despite all these things and couldn't have dreamed of ever telling anyone what was going on.

My mother would tell us she was going to hang herself as we were leaving for school and she would say 'if the door is closed when you get home don't come in, just call the police'. I look back and wonder how I was able to go to school and no one ever questioned if I was all ok at home, I had one set of clothes and one set of undies for 3 years, I wore them every day and night.

My mother acknowledges the physical abuse but says 'what else was I supposed to do?'

My grandmother was a very hard working, refined woman. My mother had a very privileged childhood, by both their accounts.

My mother had kids young, all 5 to different men, she didn't finish school, never worked, there was nothing. My grandmother has purchased 5 houses for my mother over her life, countless cars, given her tens of thousands of dollars when she's needed it. My mother has trashed every car, house and blown the money on things like holidays for herself and men that she was sleeping with.

As kids she would starve us, we were rarely allowed to eat, we would steal our neighbours macadamia nuts of their trees, eat flowers, yabbies.

I don't understand why my mother's turned out the way she has.

To this day she will try to ruin things for her kids, if we get a new job, new relationships etc anything we do she will try to ruin so that we have nothing.

She cannot allow us happiness.

Everyone thinks she's golden, she's so perfect at being a fake church going citizen its mind blowing

I am so sorry for your experience growing up. That's truly heartbreaking 😔xx
frumpety · 12/03/2021 08:48

Everything is fine with mine as long as you agree with what she thinks or are doing what she thinks you should be doing. She can only see things from her point of view and cannot understand that people can have an experience and may want to do something different to how she herself would react. If she isn't in complete control of a situation she can become nasty very quickly. She is never wrong and I don't think I have ever heard her genuinely apologise for any of her bad behaviour, there is always a reason that it was in some way acceptable or provoked.
She struggles in social situations, she can manage an hour or so and then will take some percieved slight and attack randomly, verbally and with real malice. Will not apologise and will believe she was well within her rights, as the person deserved it, the person can be an adult or a child. She has form for doing it to random strangers, so going for a coffee pre lockdown was always a slightly tense affair. She also expects people to totally forgive and forget any of this behaviour if she subsequently needs or wants anything from them.
I don't know why she is like this, a lot of it is being allowed to get away with it for so long, everyone ( bar one person ) falls in line for a quiet life and if they don't she can make things very uncomfortable and there is always the background menance of her really losing her temper, which was legendary amongst my friends when I was a child.

Qwertyyui · 12/03/2021 08:57

@woebegonad I hope not. My child loves me because of respect not fear. She knows I will support her decisions and asks for guidance when she needs it. She knows I am there for her 100% and is not spoilt materialistically as I was a single parent for a lot of years so she understands when I cannot buy for her. Her emotional needs are met and I embrace her qwirks. I have never and will never lay a finger on her. I am honest about mistakes I have made to show her I am not perfect. We don't punish for accidents but she knows I won't tollerate lies. She is a dream to parent. If she goes NC in the future I will be amazed. As a child my mum used to threaten to send us to the naughty kids home. We would pack with glee and cry when she said they were not coming. We were terrified of her and desperate to get out the house. My daughter wants to live at home forever.

She has a life I dreamed of where her choices are paramount and she is loved, trusted to make the right desicions for her whilst also knowing the value of money. She tells me she knows she is lucky to have her life and family and long may that continue.

Perhaps when the difficult teens are here it might change but we are already at the monthly hormonal stage and she just gets sad rather than raging at me. I have yet to have an 'I HATE YOU' thrown at me. Even through teens she knows the STUPID mistakes I did so if she fucks up we will work together to fix it.

mindutopia · 12/03/2021 11:57

I've thought a lot about this lately as recently had to go NC with mine. I think it is possibly do to an attachment issue. Even though my grandparents were lovely, they were quite traditional and I'm not sure how much affection there was at home when she was growing up. My grandmother was loving and caring with me, though still quite strict. I have no idea really what they might have been like as parents. Her brother (my uncle) was a very classic narcissist, and a lot of family life revolved around dealing with him kicking off and being manipulative, running away from school and the army, and just all sorts of drama he caused. I think my mum became someone who was quite co-dependent and whose whole identity is built upon people needing her (for practical support, emotional support, money, etc.). She is always rescuing people (her manipulative, abusive husband included). But she quite typically turns on people very fast as soon as they will no longer be rescued. She has a history of sending friends money to pay their rent, caring for people when they are ill, etc. and then being pissed off when people no longer need that care, and doing the whole 'but I did so much for them, why won't they take my money anymore, horrible selfish people!'. But people tire of the self-indulgence and the meddling and her making them feel bad because they always need 'help'. Really it's just because she's codependent and it's how she fills up what's empty inside her because she doesn't generally have a lot of self worth. She done it to such an extent now with her partner that she's lost her entire family - because her desire to rescue him (even though he's awful) means no one else wants anything to do with her. I think that came from her tricky family dynamics and that she never grew out of the role she felt she had to play in her family.

alwayslucky · 12/03/2021 14:24

This is a stunning thread. Many must be thinking the same :- "It's amazing how much in these posts could have been written by me".

ragged · 12/03/2021 14:35

I'm told my mother was a 3rd unwanted child & got a lot of cold shoulder from her mother. Is why she could be irrationally demanding of others.

My mother's bad luck is that I took after my grandmother in being cool emotionally, not effusive or warm. My biggest regret is not being kinder to DC, actually. By not showing enough compassion, I probably raised them to be selfish.

DC talk to me. They bring me their problems. We can have a laugh. I never felt that positive with my mother. She only had a good relationship with her own parents after she moved out & was no longer a burden on them. She felt great reward in looking after them as they aged. I have always dreaded looking after my own parents in old age.

I'm not seeing any repeat patterns in the generations there at all. We all just tried our best. I predict DD will be a modern control freak mama -- because DD is a control freak. Not because she learnt to be like that from her relatives.

ragged · 12/03/2021 14:37

If anyone reads the Glass Castle & sequel book, they are about 3-4 generations of women that could hardly be more different from each other.

ILOVEALLCAKES · 12/03/2021 21:47

@frumpety

Everything is fine with mine as long as you agree with what she thinks or are doing what she thinks you should be doing. She can only see things from her point of view and cannot understand that people can have an experience and may want to do something different to how she herself would react. If she isn't in complete control of a situation she can become nasty very quickly. She is never wrong and I don't think I have ever heard her genuinely apologise for any of her bad behaviour, there is always a reason that it was in some way acceptable or provoked. She struggles in social situations, she can manage an hour or so and then will take some percieved slight and attack randomly, verbally and with real malice. Will not apologise and will believe she was well within her rights, as the person deserved it, the person can be an adult or a child. She has form for doing it to random strangers, so going for a coffee pre lockdown was always a slightly tense affair. She also expects people to totally forgive and forget any of this behaviour if she subsequently needs or wants anything from them. I don't know why she is like this, a lot of it is being allowed to get away with it for so long, everyone ( bar one person ) falls in line for a quiet life and if they don't she can make things very uncomfortable and there is always the background menance of her really losing her temper, which was legendary amongst my friends when I was a child.
You could honestly be my sibling! This is an account of my mother.
AnneElliott · 12/03/2021 21:52

My mother is the same op - and it was her mother who was very similar and therefore I don't think she knows any other way.

She's a good GM though - she wouldn't be seeing DS if she treated him the way I'd been treated.

Spinachsarah · 13/03/2021 08:05

Had me too young and also admitted to us she never wanted children. So resents us but also expects us to act as doting daughter whilst using us as emotional punch bags when needed, screaming in my face and coming up with awful comments. She also experienced trauma in her life so I can see where it all stems from but that doesn’t mean it’s okay for me to accept being abused by her,

Dacquoise · 13/03/2021 10:46

My DM and her brother and sister had awful childhoods, narcissistic cheating abusive father and passive emotionally absent mother. It was much talked about in my family and generally agreed how unlucky and abused they all were.

However, it has led to three stunningly self absorbed and self pitying individuals who have systematically abused and destroyed their own families. Somehow their selfishness is completely justified because of their upbringing. All three highly narcissistic and lacking in self awareness. All three have colluded in each others multiple adulteries and honestly can't understand why their children might be upset at their behaviour. It's completely bizarre.

My DM is a complete self pity fest. Has alienated all three of her children from her and each other with her manipulation. Yet, as others have said, she sees herself as a doting mother and others get sucked into that too. If you can't see what an awful person you are how can you ever break the mould and do better for your own children? You kinda have to pity that.

I always say scapegoats are the lucky ones. We get to escape and heal.

Sssloou · 13/03/2021 16:31

@Dacquoise

My DM and her brother and sister had awful childhoods, narcissistic cheating abusive father and passive emotionally absent mother. It was much talked about in my family and generally agreed how unlucky and abused they all were.

However, it has led to three stunningly self absorbed and self pitying individuals who have systematically abused and destroyed their own families. Somehow their selfishness is completely justified because of their upbringing. All three highly narcissistic and lacking in self awareness. All three have colluded in each others multiple adulteries and honestly can't understand why their children might be upset at their behaviour. It's completely bizarre.

My DM is a complete self pity fest. Has alienated all three of her children from her and each other with her manipulation. Yet, as others have said, she sees herself as a doting mother and others get sucked into that too. If you can't see what an awful person you are how can you ever break the mould and do better for your own children? You kinda have to pity that.

I always say scapegoats are the lucky ones. We get to escape and heal.

I think when there is v severe early trauma, emotional development may be stunted to such a degree that they are unable to see their own behaviour and how to get do things differently.

I think narcissism is emotionally reactive behaviour like a how a toddler might behave - volatile and explosive - emotionally unregulated. Alongside the inability to reflect, take ownership and change - they also behave like a toddler when they lie and deny.

Dacquoise · 13/03/2021 16:41

I totally agree. My DM reminds me of a 6 year old. It is quite pitiful really but, having said that, she has reeked havoc on her children with her behaviour. As my therapist says you can feel sorry for a dog with rabies, best not to pet one though.

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