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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP wants "Time and Space"

68 replies

ColdLonelyWinter · 09/03/2021 22:23

I'm not sure how to take this request - is it ever good news? He says he loves me, but his life is such a mess right now (it is) that he needs to "fix it" and then "come back for me".

Start off with saying we don't live together, we live about 40 minutes apart (kids in different schools) but we were planning to buy a place together in the summer and get married.

DP is prone to anxiety and withdrawal when he's stressed, but he's never wanted to not communicate with me before, even in very hard times. In fact, when I have not wanted to communicate if I was angry or upset, he's always explained he thinks doing that is the beginning of the end. So this has me quite worried.

We were in relationship difficulties over the last five months. I don't want to go off on a tangent but we had a huge fight over his ex wife controlling our lives and trying to undermine me and I told him it was over because I couldn't take anymore. He ended up talking to her about it over wine when he dropped off the kids that night, and the rest is history.

I broke it off for a while (he confessed), but he begged me to come back, said I was the love of his life and it was his worst mistake ever, and since then we've been having counselling together and he's pulled out all the stops to reconcile.

As upsetting and hard as it was (I was devastated!), we were doing really well for a few months with it. He was Mr "I am here for you, no matter how much anger and pain you have, I am here to make you feel better" and he was making sure my feelings and needs came first.

Our relationship actually became better than ever as he started to work out some of the baggage he was carrying from his divorce in counselling and understand the reasons he did what he did. We were both saying we were closer and happier than ever before, and that's when he proposed.

Then he found out he was being made redundant and he got really stressed about that. He's been looking for ages and made lots of applications and had interviews but keeps getting knocked back and he has been really down and worried about it. His self-esteem is shot to bits and he started being anxious almost all the time and saying that our plans to buy a house were scuppered and so on.

Then, maybe understandably, he lost interest completely in working on the infidelity situation and wanted all our conversations to be about how anxious he was about his job and the future and he was full of negativity and hopelessness (really out of character for him so maybe he is depressed).

Maybe also understandably I eventually got a bit resentful and irritated that he seemed to have shifted completely off my needs onto his own. I was empathetic over his worries, but I felt he was blowing it out of proportion because we are okay financially and he has six months left yet to find a new job. His anxiety was just huge though, and it really did turn into every conversation being about his job and I felt like my needs to process the infidelity were being disregarded.

So we started to argue a bit and he just kept apologising for being self-absorbed and reassuring me how much he loved me. I really have no idea if I was expecting too much but it was obvious he was struggling to meet my needs due to his own anxiety. I was very kind to him and patient, but at times I lost my patience when he was dodging counselling appointments and so on.

With this in the background, his ex wife was putting a lot of pressure on him. FYI he didn't leave her for me, but she wants him back. Before having too much sympathy for the ex wife, I should say that through counselling he has been working through that she severely emotionally abused him. The counsellor called it "extreme", so he was right to leave the relationship.

Anyway, she has been trying since he left to get him back and sleeping with her when drunk hardly helped the situation and she has been constantly trying to orchestrate getting him alone or disrupting out relationship. He seems to be simultaneously terrified of her (she uses the children and finances as ways to control him) but she also manages to make him feel sorry for her and like everything is his fault (see emotional abuse, she is very good at it).

So this added to the pressure on us as a couple, I wanted him to get tough on the ex wife and stand up to her as well as focusing a bit of time each week on our infidelity recovery work, and he kept promising to do it but then being too anxious to actually follow through.

So over the last two weeks, we both started to get ill. He came home in the middle of the day a few times last week with panic attacks after calls from his ex wife threatening all sorts as well as yet more job application rejections and he was crying a lot too (doesn't usually cry) because he said he was worried I would leave him.

Then he said a few times that he was worried he couldn't "meet my needs" or "keep me safe" and said a few times maybe I would be better off without him and maybe the most loving thing he could do is let me go. He said he didn't have the emotional capacity to give me what I needed because he was drowning. I tried to help him, I was very kind as I could see he was in difficulty. I asked him if he wanted to break up or give up and he kept saying that he absolutely didn't and fear of losing me was his worst outcome.

Then when I think we were both at maximum stress level already, the ex wife started issuing more demands and he ended up giving in to something he and I had explicitly agreed would absolutely not happen. I was fuming, he said he was just trying to keep the situation under control, the counsellor said she was bullying him and it all reached an ultimatum where I told him unless he did what was right by me and not his ex wife that I was leaving.

He cried loads but said he felt maybe time and space would be best for both of us because he said hurting me was a huge part of his anxiety. He says he loves me and keeping me safe is his number one priority and right now being away from him keeps me safe (???) and he says he needs to deal with sorting his problems one by one alone and then he will be back for me.

I said okay, and it's been three days of "time and space", but I am wondering what this means? We've always leaned on each other in hard times so this feels like it's the end. I've spoken to him briefly and he said he is ill with anxiety, having trouble sleeping and so on and he is going to use this time to fix all his problems.

I feel abandoned. I also feel sorry for him. I am confused. Is it over do you think?

I was baffled by all this and asked him if it was a nice way of telling me he wants to leave, but he said that is absolutely not the case

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 10/03/2021 06:17

You’ve dodged a bullet here
Much better to have broken up now than when you’ve bought a house

grapewine · 10/03/2021 06:27

So he cheated on you with the ex wife? That should have been it for you. Give him space forever.

It shouldn't be this much drama all the time.

Wanderlusto · 10/03/2021 06:59

Why are you hunting onto something that causes you pain, stress, uncertainty and discomfort?

A partner is supposed to bring out the best in you and add joy and good company to your life. That's literally the only point in them. Otherwise you stay single and enjoy your ken company unless someone who does benefit your life comes along.

If you get the chance, watch 'Daniel sloss-Jigsaw' on netflix.

Wanderlusto · 10/03/2021 07:01

*your own company (although a Ken or two for the night here and there wouldn't harm either xD)

2020Diary · 10/03/2021 07:30

My DH's ex (I was not the cause of the breakup) is controlling, but nowhere near as controlling as your partners ex is. My DH had been divorced 35 years, their children are in their 40s and she is still trying to control him, via the grandchildren.

Imagine 35 years of your DPs ex then give him all the space he needs - permanently. Flowers

beela · 10/03/2021 07:36

I stopped reading when you said he shagged his ex. Bin him off, you are worth so much more than that.

Sunshineandflipflops · 10/03/2021 07:45

You are not married, you don't live together, you don't need to "work through his infidelity". You may love him but this love isn't heathy and it's not enough.

My husband of 13 year (together 20) and father of my kids cheated on me and it was enough to leave him. Why would you stay when you will never trust him again, especially around his ex wife?

picklemewalnuts · 10/03/2021 07:51

I can see why it isn't as cut and dried for you as it is for the pps commenting. I understand he's barely able to meet his own needs and escape from his ex at the moment. There's nothing left for him to worry about you and how you are feeling- and he doesn't want to hurt you but knows he will.

Unfortunately you don't give him strength to resist her pressure, you just add to his pressure.

He isn't in the right place to sustain a relationship. He needs to do a lot of work on himself first. It isn't ever going to work with you now, you met at the wrong time.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 10/03/2021 09:06

Then he said a few times that he was worried he couldn't "meet my needs" or "keep me safe" and said a few times maybe I would be better off without him and maybe the most loving thing he could do is let me go.

I think this is the most sensible and truthful thing he's said.

He is clearly very enmeshed emotionally with his ex and he's not ready to walk away from that. Realistically, he may not feel able to do that until his children are old enough to maintain contact independently, if the ex is using contact as a means of control.

Taking at face value what he's said about the ex to you and the counsellor, he sounds trapped in the cycle of abuse with her. While it's frustrating to watch someone going back to their abuser time and again, if you try to support him while having romantic feelings for him, you will be hurt the worst. Because he will keep going back to her and hurting you.

Sadly I think you need to cut your losses here. Don't let him keep you dangling on the "time and space" string - you make the decision to end it. The relationship isn't right if you've already had to have relationship counselling before even living together! And if he's been making excuses not to attend, then that tells you everything about where you lie in his priorities.

You making the decision it's over will most likely come as a big relief to him. Even though he says he doesn't want it to end. He sounds like a massive people pleaser (a very common trait for those in abusive relationships.) He won't want to "let you down" and doesn't feel strong enough to finish it, even though his words have shown that he knows he needs to.

SarahBellam · 10/03/2021 09:18

Christ, that sounds like a fucking nightmare. Way way way to much drama. It’s all about him and his needs, isn’t it? I suspect he’ll end up back with his ex eventually anyway.

AmelieTaylor · 10/03/2021 09:22

If you have any sense at all, you'll finish with him. You owe yourself and your kids a life that does not include him & all of this shit

I get that it's hard when you love someone & thought you had a future with them, but seriously. Read your posts as though someone else had written them.

Love isn't just a feeling, it's actions and all of his actions are showing you that you're nowhere near the top of his list of priorities.

Staying with him is easy, leaving him is the right thing to do. Your choice, not his. He'll be fine, but his life is his to sort out, not yours.

Focus on your life & your kids!

tropicalwaterdiver · 10/03/2021 09:26

His ex is controlling youf life. You were working on infidelity and you are not even married yet. It's a very bad start and there is very little hope it would get any better. Step back and look at the big picture. Do you really want it for yourself?

MarshmallowAra · 10/03/2021 09:31

I understand he's barely able to meet his own needs and escape from his ex at the moment

Confused

Doesn't sound like he was exactly trying to escape from his ex when he was shagging her.

He's still involved, they're both still involved - one of those messes where they're neither together nor properly split up/over.

And he's dragged op into it, cheated on her, wasted her time, messed with her head and essentially mistreated her. When she's got herself and her family to take card of

Selfish, flaky, fuck-up of a man.vall while moaning on about his own mental health.

He'll wreck your mental health op; get the fk rid of him.

Beautiful3 · 10/03/2021 09:33

He sounds like too much hard work to me. What do you get out of this? I would just separate and channel my energies on positive things instead.

tiredmum2468 · 10/03/2021 09:36

Oh op this sounds dreadful

I agree with others

Leave him and the ex to crack on with it and walk away from this nightmare and don't let him bring you down with him

MarshmallowAra · 10/03/2021 09:38

I didn't even realise he's cheated on you at first, because you phrased it so vaguely and euphemistically.

"He went around to talk about it over wine and the rest is history .."

It was only from another post that it became clear that meant they'd had sex!

It seems like you massively minimised what happened there, tried to dismiss it. You really really shouldn't have, it is massive .. and the fact that it is massive is showing again now; in spite of you continuing the relationship and acting like it isn't.

Space and time is code for "I want out". Just think; you could move on, meet someone else and not be available to get back together with .. he has accepted that, he's ok with that. Whether he's up front about it or not.

He was never properly in, he was enmeshed with his ex. He probably doesn't even want a relationship. He perhaps rushed into one and knows he shouldn't be in one/doesn't really want to be in one.

RootyT00t · 10/03/2021 09:38

@ColdLonelyWinter

I'm not sure how to take this request - is it ever good news? He says he loves me, but his life is such a mess right now (it is) that he needs to "fix it" and then "come back for me".

Start off with saying we don't live together, we live about 40 minutes apart (kids in different schools) but we were planning to buy a place together in the summer and get married.

DP is prone to anxiety and withdrawal when he's stressed, but he's never wanted to not communicate with me before, even in very hard times. In fact, when I have not wanted to communicate if I was angry or upset, he's always explained he thinks doing that is the beginning of the end. So this has me quite worried.

We were in relationship difficulties over the last five months. I don't want to go off on a tangent but we had a huge fight over his ex wife controlling our lives and trying to undermine me and I told him it was over because I couldn't take anymore. He ended up talking to her about it over wine when he dropped off the kids that night, and the rest is history.

I broke it off for a while (he confessed), but he begged me to come back, said I was the love of his life and it was his worst mistake ever, and since then we've been having counselling together and he's pulled out all the stops to reconcile.

As upsetting and hard as it was (I was devastated!), we were doing really well for a few months with it. He was Mr "I am here for you, no matter how much anger and pain you have, I am here to make you feel better" and he was making sure my feelings and needs came first.

Our relationship actually became better than ever as he started to work out some of the baggage he was carrying from his divorce in counselling and understand the reasons he did what he did. We were both saying we were closer and happier than ever before, and that's when he proposed.

Then he found out he was being made redundant and he got really stressed about that. He's been looking for ages and made lots of applications and had interviews but keeps getting knocked back and he has been really down and worried about it. His self-esteem is shot to bits and he started being anxious almost all the time and saying that our plans to buy a house were scuppered and so on.

Then, maybe understandably, he lost interest completely in working on the infidelity situation and wanted all our conversations to be about how anxious he was about his job and the future and he was full of negativity and hopelessness (really out of character for him so maybe he is depressed).

Maybe also understandably I eventually got a bit resentful and irritated that he seemed to have shifted completely off my needs onto his own. I was empathetic over his worries, but I felt he was blowing it out of proportion because we are okay financially and he has six months left yet to find a new job. His anxiety was just huge though, and it really did turn into every conversation being about his job and I felt like my needs to process the infidelity were being disregarded.

So we started to argue a bit and he just kept apologising for being self-absorbed and reassuring me how much he loved me. I really have no idea if I was expecting too much but it was obvious he was struggling to meet my needs due to his own anxiety. I was very kind to him and patient, but at times I lost my patience when he was dodging counselling appointments and so on.

With this in the background, his ex wife was putting a lot of pressure on him. FYI he didn't leave her for me, but she wants him back. Before having too much sympathy for the ex wife, I should say that through counselling he has been working through that she severely emotionally abused him. The counsellor called it "extreme", so he was right to leave the relationship.

Anyway, she has been trying since he left to get him back and sleeping with her when drunk hardly helped the situation and she has been constantly trying to orchestrate getting him alone or disrupting out relationship. He seems to be simultaneously terrified of her (she uses the children and finances as ways to control him) but she also manages to make him feel sorry for her and like everything is his fault (see emotional abuse, she is very good at it).

So this added to the pressure on us as a couple, I wanted him to get tough on the ex wife and stand up to her as well as focusing a bit of time each week on our infidelity recovery work, and he kept promising to do it but then being too anxious to actually follow through.

So over the last two weeks, we both started to get ill. He came home in the middle of the day a few times last week with panic attacks after calls from his ex wife threatening all sorts as well as yet more job application rejections and he was crying a lot too (doesn't usually cry) because he said he was worried I would leave him.

Then he said a few times that he was worried he couldn't "meet my needs" or "keep me safe" and said a few times maybe I would be better off without him and maybe the most loving thing he could do is let me go. He said he didn't have the emotional capacity to give me what I needed because he was drowning. I tried to help him, I was very kind as I could see he was in difficulty. I asked him if he wanted to break up or give up and he kept saying that he absolutely didn't and fear of losing me was his worst outcome.

Then when I think we were both at maximum stress level already, the ex wife started issuing more demands and he ended up giving in to something he and I had explicitly agreed would absolutely not happen. I was fuming, he said he was just trying to keep the situation under control, the counsellor said she was bullying him and it all reached an ultimatum where I told him unless he did what was right by me and not his ex wife that I was leaving.

He cried loads but said he felt maybe time and space would be best for both of us because he said hurting me was a huge part of his anxiety. He says he loves me and keeping me safe is his number one priority and right now being away from him keeps me safe (???) and he says he needs to deal with sorting his problems one by one alone and then he will be back for me.

I said okay, and it's been three days of "time and space", but I am wondering what this means? We've always leaned on each other in hard times so this feels like it's the end. I've spoken to him briefly and he said he is ill with anxiety, having trouble sleeping and so on and he is going to use this time to fix all his problems.

I feel abandoned. I also feel sorry for him. I am confused. Is it over do you think?

I was baffled by all this and asked him if it was a nice way of telling me he wants to leave, but he said that is absolutely not the case

It sounds a nightmare, but this stood out.

When he was stressed, you resented him going off your needs to his own.

If you chose to forgive him, you cannot then forever have the monotony on your needs because he made a mistake, unfortunately.

RootyT00t · 10/03/2021 09:38

Monopoly sorry OP

CagneyNYPD · 10/03/2021 09:44

It really is a mess of a situation that you are all in. He's right - time and space is exactly what you both need. It will allow you to step back and see how co-dependant you have both become.

He can not meet your needs. You can not meet his. The ex wife can not be removed from this situation. The only thing that you can do here is to remove yourself from this.

PerveenMistry · 10/03/2021 09:53

@pog100

Me, I think no relationship is worth this much trouble and drama and I'd give so much time and space that you find someone to have a normal, peaceful, simple calm relationship with.
Exactly.

Let him go. It's really not worth it. Don't be desperate.

Livandme · 10/03/2021 09:59

Throw him back in the pond. Too much drama

youvegottenminuteslynn · 10/03/2021 10:00

Time and space = I'm out but too much of a coward to end it.

He sounds like a total wuss, who says what he thinks the person in front of him wants to hear. Hence shagging her and doing her bidding when with her / speaking to her and then making you promises when he is with you / speaking to you.

At worst he's manipulative and doing all this to have you both anxious and engaged, at worst he's a complete coward without the backbone to be clear about his feelings to either of you.

Ugh. Can you really be arsed to keep engaging in such an exhausting headfuck of a dynamic?!

He won't end it, but he also won't stop the dynamic with her, constantly triangulating you both... this could drag on for years. Be the one to do it. Don't waste any more years on him!!

youvegottenminuteslynn · 10/03/2021 10:01

Typo:

At worst he's manipulative and doing all this to have you both anxious and engaged, at best he's a complete coward without the backbone to be clear about his feelings to either of you.

As in that's the best case scenario and it still sounds shit and isn't worth continuing.

Easterbunnygettingready · 10/03/2021 10:02

He is still shagging his ex...
End of discussion..
You are worth more than second best.

38greenbottles · 10/03/2021 10:02

Just because someone starts dating a person, doesn't mean they have to keep on dating them. If things don't work out, it's ok to walk away, they don't have to be a dreadful person, it's ok to just go if things are not working out.

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