Is this a normal relationship?

[TheAnonymum]

Hey. Long time lurker, first time poster. So basically I’ve been with my DH for 10 years and married for 5. We’ve got two children. I’ve come to the conclusion he isn’t particularly nice to me. When we have good times they’re great and I’m happy but other times I feel so low and I’m daydreaming about leaving and wondering if I’d be able to do it financially on my own and looking at places to rent. Is it normal to be like this?

I have been keeping records of things he says and does. When I try to bring up that I think he’s a bit of a bully or emotionally abusive he turns it around so it’s me over reacting etc. Then I start to doubt myself and think are things really that bad. Should I be considering tearing the family apart over such small things. He’s great with the kids and they love him so much so I’d feel guilty ruining that.

Most recent event was last night. We had sex (kind of do this out of duty really) and then afterwards he made a stupid ‘joke’ comment about me being a cum dripping whore (I’m repulsed just writing this down). I said that’s not funny and he said ok you’re right it’s not. A while later I said I’ve told you not to call me a whore (he’s done it lots before) and he said alright it’s the first time I’ve done it in ages. I said I’m your wife and the mother of your kids and I don’t want you calling me names like that and he told me I was being dramatic and then started off on one (like he does any time I express unhappiness or criticise him). I just took out my hearing aid as I’m sick of hearing rants about how it’s not his fault in anyway anytime I’m upset. He always seems to turn it round and make it about him. I went up to bed and this morning he was ignoring me because I was rude taking my hearing aid out (lol). Honestly I know it was childish but I’m so fed up of it, I didn’t have the strength to listen to him going on at me again. Surely a normal response would be to apologise? I don’t understand how I’m in the wrong for not liking being called names.

Sometimes I feel so drained but there are some good times too so I just don’t know what to do. I guess I just wanted to know if other people’s relationships are similar. Am I being dramatic and over reacting? I don’t have anyone to talk to and with lockdown especially it’s hard.

That is unacceptable. He doesn't like, love or respect you. Carry on planning.

OP, this is emotional abuse, followed by gaslighting you to try and minimise it or blame you instead.
How could you possibly think it “normal” for a husband to call his wife a whore?
And why are you having unwanted sex as a “duty”? Unwanted sex is rape. No normal loving husband forces his wife into this.
I would recommend you look at the Freedom Program, and start planning your exit from this abusive marriage.

What ever good times you have cannot possibly outweigh the horribly disrespectful way he talks to you.

I'm sorry OP about your h's treatment towards you but this is not healthy at all. He would rather deflect and blame than discuss things that are bothering you. He is telling you that you are overreacting to avoid accountability for his abusive behaviour. This is gaslighting to get you not to trust your judgement.

I have been with my dh for over 20 years and he has never called me a single derogatory name, let alone "whore" multiple times. This is verbal and emotional abuse. This is absolutely disgusting and he clearly doesn't respect you.

OP your h needs to see how damaging his behaviour is towards you, or your marriage won't stand a chance. You are not wrong at all to feel the way you do because he is undermining you and making you feel less than.

I hope you find the strength to move forward.

There is no such thing as a normal relationship. All relationships are different, and all individuals have different levels of different needs that they require to be met, in order to feel happy within the relationship.

I will share something with you that I learned in counselling, which has been very valuable to me, and I hope will be to you, too: If you are looking to see whether the way somebody treats you is 'normal', you are approaching the situation as if there is an emotional rule-book, which tells us whether certain behaviours from other people, and our responses are ok. But there isn't one. The important point, the massively important point, is that your rule book IS your emotional response. And everybody has their own rule book.

So, it doesn't matter what the behaviour is from the other person (unless it's illegal - there is a rule book for laws), if it makes you feel 'not ok', then it's against your rules. Even if it's that he wants to shop in the Co Op, when you want to shop in Aldi. It might be something you can easily let go, but if it isn't, and there's something in you that makes it feel wrong, then he is crossing your boundary with regard to this issue. He doesn't have to be doing anything that anybody else would regard as 'wrong'.

The other thing is, it is your responsibility to make sure you are surrounded by people who respect your boundaries. So, if somebody crosses one, you tell them, calmly. You base the future of the relationship on their response. If they are sorry they have crossed your boundary, and they want to change things so that both of your needs get met when the situation arises again, then, good. Go forward with the relationship. If they respond in any way that makes you feel crappy or like the issue isn't resolved (defense/attack you for something else/deny/tell you you're being silly or sensitive/etc), then rethink the relationship, because this person does not respect your boundaries, and that will manifest in other areas too, hurting you more and more as the relationship progresses.

There is no normal. You are your normal. He is his. Respect your own normal, and be around people with a similar normal to you.

Have you heard the analogy about the boiling frog? You keep slightly raising the temp of the water so the frog doesn't actually realise its being boiled until its dead?
My ex dh did this, nothing absolutely major in my eyes but the little unacceptable things chipped away at me over the years and eventually I left him.
Looking back I can't believe I put up with half of the stuff, but they have a clever way of gas lighting you and making you feel like you are over reacting.
I too used to fantasise about being on my own, him having an affair, him coming out as gay (was my favourite!!) I was unhappy and it's only now I realise how much happier I am without him.
Please listen to your gut!!

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Did you see one parent abuse the other?.

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

You are in an abusive relationship with this man and sadly too, this does not just affect you but your children as well. They are learning from the two of you about relationships; what is being taught to them here?. Would you want them as adults to have a relationship like this, no you would not and its not good enough for you either.

Abusers can be "nice" sometimes because if they were not, no-one would want to be with them. What you're seeing from him is the nice/nasty cycle of abuse and that is a continuous one.

He is not going to make it at all easy for you to leave and he will continue to be abusive post separation as well. This does not mean to say you should not continue with planning to leave and divorce him; you absolutely should.

Abusive people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Its always someone else's fault; never theirs. He really does thinks you drove him to acting like he has.

How else can you be helped into leaving your abuser?. Are you thinking about contacting Womens Aid and seeking legal advice re separation and divorce from a solicitor?.

Sometimes I feel so drained but there are some good times too so I just don’t know what to do

You are on the abuse cycle. Good times are incorporated into the process, but it doesn't stop it being an abusive relationship, and 'good times' are part of the manipulation, precisely so that you won't know what to do, and therefore won't leave.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse

I had a relationship like this. It's tough because the bad guy isn't always bad- it's been much easier if he was like a villain in the Disney movie; consistently awful.

I stayed with this guy for three years, attempted to leave him 4 times. The final time I did leave- felt like this massive weight I never knew existed just dropped off me.

It was scary leaving because I'd lost my sense of what was "normal" . Was it normal to say "if your family really loved you they would tell you about your (insert daily flaw here)?" "If we had kids and you decided to leave I'd put social services on you"

It took 4 years to recover from him. Then I met the most amazing guy who treats me with respect and I couldn't be happier.

Listen to your gut instinct!! Life is too short to settle for anything less than great B x

Nothing about what you have described is normal. Disgusting behaviour from him.

My god he is absolutely awful.

No it's not normal in my house to be called names like that. On the other hand we do call each other names in jest to make each other laugh. which is a completely different thing as it is done in fun and in a different context.

What a vile oxygen thief he is, I could not be with someone like that he's disgusting and you deserve so much better! He doesn't respect you, make plans to leave op,sending hugs xx

That’s fine to enforce boundaries but a bit pointless when dealing with someone who is abusive and probably very narcissistic! She isn’t responsible for his behaviour, nor is she responsible for the very normal response like she’s had. She’s in a controlling relationship ffs.

OP, I’ve been where you are and for a while I thought that by trying to get him to understand me and empathise, it would help things - it didn’t, because he could not/would not empathise with me, it was all about him and how I hurt him by accusing him of such awful things, like emotional abuse.

You will be much happier on your own, I would carry on looking into it if you can.

@WhoAteAllTheWotsits

She’s in a controlling relationship ffs

Who was this directed at?

I love that you took your hearing aid out. Well done.

You're absolutely right that leaving him is the best thing to do. He is abusive.

On top of all that, you don't really want to shag him but feel you have to. That's no way to live. xx

^There is no such thing as a normal relationship. All relationships are different, and all individuals have different levels of different needs that they require to be met, in order to feel happy within the relationship.

I will share something with you that I learned in counselling, which has been very valuable to me, and I hope will be to you, too: If you are looking to see whether the way somebody treats you is 'normal', you are approaching the situation as if there is an emotional rule-book, which tells us whether certain behaviours from other people, and our responses are ok. But there isn't one.^

@Ekhart I think there mostly is. For instance, in the Freedom Programme, women are shown that there are ways of treating them that aren't ok. There might be some women who want different things. But as a general precept, there are ok and not ok ways for someone to treat us in relationships. Otherwise there'd be no point in programmes like the FP.

There are ways of working out whether a relationship you're in is abusive or not.

Sorry, obviously this was the bit it was supposed to put in italics as what I was replying to:-

I will share something with you that I learned in counselling, which has been very valuable to me, and I hope will be to you, too: If you are looking to see whether the way somebody treats you is 'normal', you are approaching the situation as if there is an emotional rule-book, which tells us whether certain behaviours from other people, and our responses are ok. But there isn't one.

There are ok and not ok ways for someone to treat us/behave in relationships.

Saying he isn't particularly nice to you is an understatement. He is abusive and clearly has little to no respect for you. I would seriously consider contacting women's aid and leaving if I was you.

I was in a relationship similar this OP, they don't change. I spent a long time trying to get my Ex DP to show even the slightest bit of empathy and see things from my point of view but he never did. He called me names, belittled me, never accepted any responsibility for his actions, and refused to apologise for anything. I stayed for alot longer than I should have because when things were good they were really good, but the good times became few and far between. I left and was instantly much happier, felt a huge sense of relief.

Christ, how good and how often are the good times, that you’d take this level of abuse? He’s not “just not particularly nice” to you. He’s horrific to you. My husband wouldn’t even utter those words in my presence never mind say them to me.

Can you leave? Because you need to. This is so far from a healthy relationship it’s unbelievable.

@SoulofanAggron

Self validation is a short cut to avoiding abuse. If it feels crap, you tackle it. If you tackle it to no avail, you leave, and choose better people.

The Freedom Program's list you posted is not conclusive. Self validation is, and will cover things that a person may not like as an individual, rather than just the general guidelines for what a good person looks like. Otherwise all good people would be compatible with each other, and people would be being encouraged to stay with each other despite feeling things like 'It pisses me off when he's always glued to his phone', and 'He goes out with his mates 3 nights a week and I want him to stay home more'.

Self validation covers abuse and personal preferences. A person with strong self validation and a miserable/abusive relationship are mutually exclusive, because those who self validate move away from things that make them feel bad.

Self validation is, and will cover things that a person may not like as an individual, rather than just the general guidelines for what a good person looks like.

@Eckhart Yes, but that doesn't mean an attempt at general guidelines for women as to what is acceptable in a decent relationship/partner aren't possible.

Things that an individual woman doesn't like could be extras for them on top of those general guidelines.

Of course the above cards/diagram from Freedom isn't the whole thing, it's designed so women have something they could have in their wallet/look at at a glance. There's a whole book and programme that goes into more exaamples.

Yes, but that doesn't mean an attempt at general guidelines for women as to what is acceptable in a decent relationship/partner aren't possible

I didn't say it wasn't possible.