How to handle a smear campaign?

[Mintypylonsfryingsurplus]

I am looking to wise MNetters as I am too involved emotionally and trying to work out what to do for best is giving me anxiety.

My DH has quite a large family. The self styled head of the family is BIL and SIL.
They try to rule the rest of the family to their own personal agenda. The BIL has some very unpleasant traits (rascist, sexist, self obsessed, arrogant and is a bully)
His immediate echo chamber take his lead.
BIL will target a member of the family who has 'wronged him' for example not invited him to a certain event and the create a hate campaign of bullying and spite.
Well since lockdown 1 its been me and DH turn.
Our crime? For not joining in with zoom chats where we were targeted for bullying by him and echo chamber.
We withdrew. I suffered very poor health so have spent a year trying to recover.
In this time not one enquiry as to how we are/doing.
We withdrew further to get on with difficult circumstances. Deaths and poor health in my side of family too much to go into here, but suffice it to say like a lot of people year from hell.
Final straw was I had a big birthday in lockdown never so much got a card, but to rub face in they all made huge fuss of three extended family members.
I kept my cool and stepped further back. But I noticed that several others are tresting me very cool to the point I am a total outsider.
Now out of blue BIL has messaged DH saying my behaviour will make meeting up for family stuff will be awkward due to me?
I know for a fact I am now being smeared to the other family members who I have no problem with and always were ok to me?
What would you do?
I am not keen to meet the toxic ones at all. But my DH caught in middle...

Just ignore.

Those with half a brain will work it out for themselves, based on their knowledge of you and of BIL according to the behaviours they have personally witnessed.

If idiots  believe BIL,more fool them, you're not missing any valuable relationships there.

My BIL is a racist, sexist twat who tries to triangulate other people. I snooze rather than block him and talk about cooking. And I'm rather glad he communicates through others as I don't have too talk to him.

The few times he's really tried to mess with me he's got the horns. I'm nice but don't test me.

@MrsTerryPratchett ha ha he sounds vile! Good for you indifference sounds good!
@2bazookas yep ignore! Still got loads going on. Any energy is needed for other things not engaging in his BS

"Lastly why not ask me instead of going to brother with a nasty message. Surely if you are worried you ask the person involved directly instead of school yard games?"

Eh? Nasty message? Asking my brother why his wife deleted me isn't nasty. And no, I probably wouldn't go to her first in your case as she's been ill and had some problems.

What exactly has been said to you? How are they smearing you? So far you've said that they were engaged in "banter", that you don't like them as people, that you slowly drifted away from them (fair enough) and that you then deleted them all which prompted a message asking why.

As for people telling me to "look it up". Look what up? The descriptions of flying monkeys and echo chambers all sound a bit odd and make it hard to follow. Just a lot of words without anything actually being said.

Your BIL is a bully.

He has bullied you and others by putting you down and silencing you - but he still had the emotional energy of your anxious presence to feed off. Now you have removed yourself from his orbit this will send him into Narc rage. He will be out for revenge - looking to punish you.

The BIL is rattling your cage - he is desperate to provoke you into a reaction so that he can twist and use it against you.

That’s his toxic fuel, his oxygen essential for his survival.

Don’t give it to him.

That’s the most powerful thing you can do.

It will liberate you and frustrate him.

Don’t react, engage or comment to him or anyone else. Give zero info about your lives to any of his flying monkeys. Go NC / LC with the lot of them, cut back your SM.

Know that your detachment, indifference and distance will sting him.

Don’t worry about smearing. This has happened to me - the advice I was given was that you can never get ahead of the bully in trying to clear your name - it’s a futile, exhausting, wild goose chase and your involvement in it is inadvertently fanning the flames. It’s a trap.

Be confident that you have your own reputation built up over decades and he has his.

Trust and believe that those that matter don’t care and those that care what he has to say don’t matter.

Your DH can go to stuff if he wants - but you should model to him what “emotionally taking care of yourself” looks like - ie calmly taking yourself out of punching distance, dropping the rope on toxic games and swerving the provocation and conflict of difficult people.

He seems to think you have to tolerate bullying and abuse - because that’s what his family system was all about. If you calmly have more kindness and respect for yourself by removing yourself from this he will see the benefits and learn to do the same.

The echo chambers are enablers of his behaviour.

Are their children / cousins involved in this?

My feeling is that the only way out of a toxic family relationship is to "do distance" and disengage.

After a troubled childhood I kept a distance from my family (parents and sister) after I left home and saw them only occasionally. At my fathers funeral I was subjected to such a tirade of lies and abuse from various members that I walked out of the house at 11pm and went to a hotel. After that I changed my phone number and remained estranged for some years. My relationship with my sister is still very cool although I do get on with my nephews and nieces.

There is an old saying that your friends are people you choose but your relations are people you are lumbered with.

@Sssloou that is a very good overview of them! Yes I know it is ramping up as I totally have ignored it so far. Yes his children are involved as are their partners and their in laws. I did gently speak to him a long while back that he was demonstrating poor behaviour to his adult children who then joined in the bullying towards us and we would not tolerate this. At the time it settled down but obviously he still holds a grudge over this and it started up again. So no he will not change or indeed thinks anything is wrong. You are spot on about my DH though he still hangs around for more gets fed up they fall out DH then told he is 'sensitive' rinse repeat. But yes he is hugely fed up now especially as my family treat him with such love and
respect. But I guess if you have always put up with shitty behaviour thats all you know? I was never thought that highly of with DH family as he is seen as 'low status' and I merely an extension of him, however hard we tried to fit in. In truth none of them apart from one know hardly anything about me as they never ask. You can literally have a one sided conversation where it is always about them. When you talk they pick up phones or interrupt. Its very very hard to be around them.

@Sssloou

Your BIL is a bully.

He has bullied you and others by putting you down and silencing you - but he still had the emotional energy of your anxious presence to feed off. Now you have removed yourself from his orbit this will send him into Narc rage. He will be out for revenge - looking to punish you.

The BIL is rattling your cage - he is desperate to provoke you into a reaction so that he can twist and use it against you.

That’s his toxic fuel, his oxygen essential for his survival.

Don’t give it to him.

That’s the most powerful thing you can do.

It will liberate you and frustrate him.

Don’t react, engage or comment to him or anyone else. Give zero info about your lives to any of his flying monkeys. Go NC / LC with the lot of them, cut back your SM.

Know that your detachment, indifference and distance will sting him.

Don’t worry about smearing. This has happened to me - the advice I was given was that you can never get ahead of the bully in trying to clear your name - it’s a futile, exhausting, wild goose chase and your involvement in it is inadvertently fanning the flames. It’s a trap.

Be confident that you have your own reputation built up over decades and he has his.

Trust and believe that those that matter don’t care and those that care what he has to say don’t matter.

Your DH can go to stuff if he wants - but you should model to him what “emotionally taking care of yourself” looks like - ie calmly taking yourself out of punching distance, dropping the rope on toxic games and swerving the provocation and conflict of difficult people.

He seems to think you have to tolerate bullying and abuse - because that’s what his family system was all about. If you calmly have more kindness and respect for yourself by removing yourself from this he will see the benefits and learn to do the same.

The echo chambers are enablers of his behaviour.

Are their children / cousins involved in this?

This is such good advice

@DavidsSchitt believe me the message was nasty my DH replied sort it out with Minty funny enough he did not reply back to him or sort it out with me as deep down a coward.
The smearing has been hard and undeserved to the point when in tier 2 we saw some family who blanked us for no reason. These are people very close to BIL.
As for the words used (echo chamber etc) that is irrelavent I could expand but not wanting to out myself with more highly specific examples suffice it to say I have had over a year of spiteful underhand, bitchy and toxic comments. These individuals are highly two faced, have few friends and very controlling. I have tried to sort it out many times but with no success. Cutting them out is not an easy choice due to my DH but you seem to be nit picking about the details. Just know its been a really horrible toxic situation and continues to be so.

I would sack off the lot of them. Make plans to have gatherings over the summer with friends instead. Your in-laws are toxic and will never change. Act as if you don't give a fuck and eventually you won't. Never apologise, never explain, just ignore, ignore, ignore.

Sssloou is bang on here.

Re your comment:-
"I was never thought that highly of with DH family as he is seen as 'low status' and I merely an extension of him, however hard we tried to fit in."

Correct. People from dysfunctional families like your DHs end up playing roles; your H's assigned role in his familial narcissistic structure is one of scapegoat. As a result you as his wife together with any children you have, are also scapegoated. What you've written is sadly very much typical of what happens to scapegoats when they have a family unit of their own.

You all need to stay well away from his family of origin here; no good will come of contacting them in any shape or form.

Your H may want to read "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown or "Toxic parents" by Susan Forward.

@sneakysnoopysniper thats awful! Yes its really sad that families treat the very people they should love and support so shabbily. I hope you know its not a reflection of you. Yep ignoring is best. Will have a chat with DH as to not going to family stuff. Will continue to see neutral family without them. When lockdown finishes I am desperate to see my own dear family and friends, they just cease to be high priority now. I honestly couldnt have tried harder short of giving them total control over me. I too old to be fake even for a quiet life. DH does know what they are like but its a huge rejection to be cast out of your family and dont think he ready mentally to walk away.

@Loopyloututu2 - your situation with MIL is classic. This also happened to me. Once you have removed yourself from the situation and YOU are not engaging - you are then not in the spot light and the bully is on stage alone - with everyone watching THEM - don’t be the distraction.

@Mintypylonsfryingsurplus - seriously go NC - don’t feed the monster and wait patiently to see that the bully then descends
on someone else.

It seems you have a wide functional respectful family and friendship group to immerse yourself in. Hang out with these emotionally healthy people and your life will be good, safe, rewarding. Don’t be polluted by the BIL. Also don’t try to form camps with other ILs. It’s not worth the bother and will back fire.

Post COVID is a new chapter in your life. Everyone has reflected on their priorities. Decide to quietly and confidently leave this lot in the dust, fading into the distance in the rear view mirror.

Don’t look back - keep looking and moving forward. Feel no fear, obligation or guilt - just relief.

Sounds like you have endured decades of nonsense that has only got worse. Step away.

@Sssloou great advice Covid has been a great leveller. I was getting so anxious thinking it was my duty to show up and tolerate this! No more lockdown has been a relief to be able to avoid them so yes now I do it through choice. Already the anxiety over this is fading. You start to think its you? That you should shut up and put up but life is way too short to suffer out of fear and duty of being slagged off, especially as this it what is happening anyway.

@DavidsSchitt

"Lastly why not ask me instead of going to brother with a nasty message. Surely if you are worried you ask the person involved directly instead of school yard games?"

Eh? Nasty message? Asking my brother why his wife deleted me isn't nasty. And no, I probably wouldn't go to her first in your case as she's been ill and had some problems.

What exactly has been said to you? How are they smearing you? So far you've said that they were engaged in "banter", that you don't like them as people, that you slowly drifted away from them (fair enough) and that you then deleted them all which prompted a message asking why.

As for people telling me to "look it up". Look what up? The descriptions of flying monkeys and echo chambers all sound a bit odd and make it hard to follow. Just a lot of words without anything actually being said.

Look up the term. Look up narcissistic families. Look up toxic behaviour. Then re read your comment.

[quote Mintypylonsfryingsurplus]@Sssloou great advice Covid has been a great leveller. I was getting so anxious thinking it was my duty to show up and tolerate this! No more lockdown has been a relief to be able to avoid them so yes now I do it through choice. Already the anxiety over this is fading. You start to think its you? That you should shut up and put up but life is way too short to suffer out of fear and duty of being slagged off, especially as this it what is happening anyway.[/quote]
They can't do anything to you if you are not an audience. Take the power away
No explanation needed. Remove yourself from their harm. They will go mad that you're not conforming and then what will they do? Nothing because you wont be hearing it

"Look up the term.
Look up narcissistic families. Look up toxic behaviour.
Then re read your comment."

I have. And a text message saying "hi brother, have I upset wife because she's deleted us all. Need to sort it out, don't want it to be awkward" is not a nasty text.

The BIL sounds a prick but there's still no detail here if what's actually been said or done

@DavidsSchitt I wanted some helpful advice on how to deal with a smear campaign not to pick through the nasty details. I am wondering if you are one of my nasty family members so not justifying this to you again as made it clear in a previous post. But thank you anyway 🤔

Don't worry, I'm definitely not involved in your family

I don't know how you think people can help when the only actual detail you've given is that a text was sent saying things might be awkward after you deleted them all after a year of withdrawing.

Many posters have jumped in with the usual "narc" diagnoses and advising you to "grey rock" without stopping for even a second to notice that you believe you're being "smeared" but there's literally nothing in any of your posts to back it up. Could do more harm than good

Sounds like a key issue is that your DH hasn’t yet decided what his personal views are on what’s happened, or what relationships he wants with his various family members.

Language like ‘smear campaigns’, having previously been ‘brainwashed’ etc seems unhelpful.

You’ve decided that you personally want to have low or no contact with BIL/SIL, eg due to things they’ve said to you and DH, and that others have told you they’ve said about you.

Sounds like you’d like to continue contact with some of DH’s other family members, but to avoid them being ‘off’ with you and discussion of you/BiL/SIL, which may or may not be possible.

DH doesn’t sound to have decided what he thinks about that, or what he would like to do for himself.

Er no your DH is very much not 'caught in the middle'.

Your nasty BIL has seen that he can't goad you in the way he's been trying so he's now trying to get between the two of you by just targeting you in stead of both of you.

Time to tell your DH that he can shut up with the mimsy 'just hold your head high' - which translates as 'I'm not going to stick up for you because I'm scared of BIL' - you tell him no, there's no fence here, if you're stupid enough to throw me under the bus so you can show your belly to BIL then more fool you - you won't 'not lose your family' by doing that because they are already 'lost' in the sense that they think it's fine to bully you and they don't have your back. All you'll do is lose your wife - the one person you DO have!

Yes it's very hard for him but there's no way out of this one. Except by placating BIL, letting him goad and torment you both until he gets bored or you suck up to him, and then you can be a happy family again? Err - that's happy?

Tell your DH you won't be at any family gatherings, they're a bunch of shits to you but ESPECIALLY him and he needs to see the wood for the trees here.

Your BIL is poison!

I would stand up for myself. By backing off, you’re basically letting everyone believe BIL is telling the truth.
I would draft an email with a timeline of events from your point of view, saying why you did what you did at each stage, and send it to all of them. That way, the people who aren’t directly involved, can make their own decisions, rather than following BIL.
I know that MN generally supports a “delete, block, go NC” policy with unpleasant relatives, But I think that is much harder in real life than it sounds in a chat forum.
But that’s just me - I like to fight my corner and stick up for myself, rather than crawling away and letting everyone think they were right all along.

Don't engage at all. The fact that you've stepped back has starved your BIL of the drama he craves, which is why he's reached out to your husband. He's just trying to elicit a reaction. Don't give him what he wants.

However you communciate with this individual or his entourage, it will never end well for you. People like this (narcissists) are completely unable to relate to people normally. They have no moral compass and don't feel shame or discomfort if they have upset people. The only thing to do is disengage and keep your dignity. I personally found telling mine to fuck off carthartic and worthwhile but I see the logic for not doing so and not adding fuel to the fire.

Your DH is mired in his own fear, obligation and guilt re them re his family and wanting their approval is all very much still a part of that. He needs to realise that his own inertia re these people hurts him just as much as you and he does not need their approval, not that they would give this to him anyway. His loyalty should be to you primarily, not his family who will also continue to scapegoat him.

And what YoniandGuy wrote earlier in its entirety. He will continue to try and use you as a buffer here if permitted.