I don’t understand timing. Is getting married just luck or could I help along the process?

[PuertoVallarta]

I find myself a few months into a new relationship, a-bloody-gain, and as usual the specialness of me seems to have worn off. I’m not a game-player, I’m always very honest and I think I am a nice person. I can honestly say all my exes still love me a lot, but they are not IN LOVE with me...and perhaps not a single one of them ever were.

I find all my relationships stall eventually. I’ve had a lot of relationships! They seem to peak at around six months in, and then we will just ride the plateau with lots of happy times for another year or two, when they tell me they just aren’t feeling it and move on to someone else they will marry rather quickly.

I just want to be married. It’s too late to have children, but I want a family even if it’s just two people. I come from a good working class family. I do have the skill set for a happy family life.

I just severely lack the skill set for getting to the point where I’m someone’s family; for getting to the point where they see me as the woman they want to be a family with.

I have been seeing someone absolutely lovely. But I can’t tell anymore if we’re moving forward. Is this once-a-week thing good enough for him? I never push for commitment. But I also do not hide my desire for one.

I don’t want to waste another two years with someone who isn’t moving the relationship toward marriage. But on the other hand, I wonder if somehow I’m supposed to be the one who’s moving it toward that, only I just don’t know how? I absolutely know how to be committed and loyal. I’ve spent so much money and time and emotional energy on men. I don’t regret it. But I’m at an age where suddenly I will resent it if I get years down the line with someone and then find out he didn’t consider me good enough to spend they rest of his life with.

So what should I do? Put my cards on the table? How soon is too soon? I’ve said I wanted stability and he agreed. Is that enough for now? Or am I supposed to do something to make him think about me as more than a really cool girlfriend? Does there need to be some element of fear of losing me?

I’m calm and I do live life happily day to day. I don’t stress about this in public.

I don’t want to mess it all up. Is it just luck and I have to keep being patient, loving, open, generous? Do I continue to wait for the stars to align and the man I live to look at me one day and see his whole future? Or is that not enough action on my part? And how do you take it slow to figure out if it’s right, without setting the tone that what’s good enough for now will be good enough forever?

(I suppose I should add that I was married in my early 20s. It didn’t last long and I wouldn’t call it a real marriage. I don’t know what I did differently to make him want to commit to me for life, other than perhaps the fact that he was also young and didn’t understand what commitment was so he didn’t mind making it.

I should also add that I was drawn to my current boyfriend because he had been married for over two decades and I though he might be able to move things forward since he clearly like being married. However, I cannot tell if he is just comfortable with me and taking his time, or if I am a placeholder. I do t want to be a psycho because it’s only been five months. But I also don’t want to waste a single second being a placeholder.)

Help?

I should also add that I was drawn to my current boyfriend because he had been married for over two decades and I though he might be able to move things forward since he clearly like being married.

This is a very strange logic because 1. he married his ex presumably because he wanted to marry her not just because he wanted to be married in general, 2. if divorced rather than widowed he might not have liked it that much surely hence the divorce and 3. if he's had a 20 year marriage he is IMO less likely to jump into another one anytime soon.

I don’t know. Doesn’t everyone have certain qualities and positions that they find more desirable than others? There are a lot of men I get along with and he’s not the only person who’s ever showed interest in me.

I feel like both people can grow a lot in a committed relationship and that that’s how humanity has evolved. For my whole life, I felt it was silly or selfish to expect to get married when I was in good enough relationships with men who loved me as best as they could.

But just recently, I realized that most of the people in the whole world throughout time have wanted a happy, committed, stable relationship. Marriage is a normal thing to want. I drank so much koolaid about being cool with not having a family I think I poisoned myself.

Sounds melodramatic, but i might as well start baring my soul.

@Alocasia

“I should also add that I was drawn to my current boyfriend because he had been married for over two decades and I though he might be able to move things forward since he clearly like being married.” That’s not a good reason to be drawn to someone. In my experience, the men I’ve dated who have been married before have not been looking to marry again.

In fairness, the friend I posted about up the thread (the one I hoped the OP wasn't dating) is just out of a 20 year marriage, is seeing someone and said in a recent phonecall that he's 'dying to settle down'. I said 'But you've spent the last 20 years 'settled down!' he was the one who instigated the divorce but he claims this is different. I'm not so sure. I'm very fond of him, but he's the kind of passive man who feels most at home bolted to the sofa for the weekend, secure in the knowledge that no one will require him to get off it for 48 hours, and he loathes novelty or using the phone, so I imagine dating takes him way out of his comfort zone, and when he says he's dying to settle down, he means 'Go back to sitting on the sofa and not having to go out all the time and wear clothes with buttons and belts, and make phone calls.' And the best way to do that is to cohabit, if not remarry.

As I think he's only actually met the woman he's 'seeing' twice because of lockdown, I hope she becomes aware that the attractive, clever, funny man she's seeing is likely to repeat his first marriage, which involved him sort of going into stasis for two decades after the honeymoon.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I don’t just want a label. I want to be in a real partnership with someone and grow together and become better people together and cultivate a relationship together that we are both proud of.

@Tureen I have dated a man like that too. Had been married before and was clearly just desperately looking for his next wife. It was very off-putting (for me, anyway!)

@CallistoSol

Yes. I am scared that I come off as someone who is not emotionally a good fit for marriage. And I’m very sad about it and I don’t know how to change it.

Of course I have had a lot of boyfriends! I’m mid-40s and a loving woman who was broken up with many times. What was I supposed to do? Give up hope and just sit around waiting for a sign? It doesn’t mean they were all interchangeable. I loved them. I believed each one was special. I know they loved me.

But yes, I am aware that somehow I don’t come across as The One. I thought we were all in agreement that The One was a myth and actions were what makes a solid relationship. So I focus on actions. It doesn’t mean I don’t have feelings.

@Lovelydiscusfish

I want to marry you already!

And I don’t know how to get there because obviously if I bring it up too soon, it sounds like I don’t care who I marry and that the man is just there to fill a role.

I'm afraid that's very much how it's come off in this thread.

Maybe you need to talk about wanting to get married before you get super-serious, certainly before you move in with anyone, and make sure they're on the same page. Call it a day if marriage isn't on their radar.

@PuertoVallarta, did you break up with any of them? If so, why? And if they did, what did they say in explanation, other than the usual 'It's not you, it's me' clichés. You seem quite secure that they loved you, but you don't think that was enough.

I have to agree with Changey whatsit based on my own experienced. In my late twenties and early thirties I behaved a bit like I was auditioning to be a wife. Couldn’t understand why I dated for a year / 18 months and then split and definitely two of them married their gfs after me quite quickly.
Then I got a job that totally absorbed me. Went on a date out of politeness (through a friend) and he proposed after a year exactly. I had put him way down the list of priorities. I wanted to succeed in my job, sell my flat and buy a house and he was great, funny and sweet but i guess my attitude was take-it-or-leave-it. I had great sex and awesome dates with him but I was fundamentally focused on myself.
We are really happily married now for 14 years and I really think that it’s because I didn’t dote or fawn or chase or even wonder if he would text me. He telephoned, he set dates, he planned everything, he wooed me.

(Now I dote on him but he earned it).

Focus on YOU. What can you do to improve your life?

@Tureen They told me they loved me. Sometimes we lived together. I could call them if I needed something and vice versa. We had a lot of experiences together and sought out new adventures.

Then they broke up with me, things had run their course. I’ve been cheated on a few times and my last boyfriend is now living in my old apartment with the woman he cheated with. I was devastated but now I just think, well, he’s a cheater. He isn’t a monster but I’m glad to be done with him.

I’m starting to think that what I want is impossible. But I can’t help thinking that we get what we settled for and I don’t want to settle for anything less. Maybe I think too much. But not thinking and just showing up hopeful and loving didn’t get me the kind of relationship that I am capable of.

At the end of it all, I still think true love is possible. I see couples building a life together. I can only imagine that the right man would be very grateful to have a wife like me. I’m not up myself. Lots of people want a spouse who will show up in good faith and be loyal and put the relationship as a main priority. Maybe I never meet those men at the right time, but the fact that all my exes are married (except the most recent one who’s cohabitating) tells me I am meeting the right men and I have their full attention for a few months. I’m just doing something wrong in the meantime.

I know all of these posts sound so self-indulgent. I am very grateful for the advice and input.

In a perfect world, I would be having this conversation with him. It’s just too hard to organize my own thoughts first.

I’m just doing something wrong in the meantime.

Well no, they wanted to marry, but they just didn't want to marry you. The relationship might have seemed right, but there was something not right enough about it.

You're not necessarily doing anything wrong OP, sometimes sheer bloody bad luck rears its head for folk.

I think there will be men out there similar to you, especially motivated by the idea of working towards marriage in relationships. So that is your first step...are there any dating sites which have scope for alluding to this or men that talk quite frankly about this in profiles, so that you can focus on the ones more likely to have similar goals in mind.

I actually wouldn't forcefully insist on paying for things all the time - you kind of devalue yourself by doing that. There's a tip in a book somewhere, I can't remember where, but it said along the lines of that somewhat counterintuitively, you build more liking for yourself when you ask and receive favours from others rather than volunteering favours again and again for them. Obviously don't take the piss, but I think to elevate your value you deserve to be treated, just as you treat others. If that's not happening then the other person isn't thinking of you as highly as they should, and move on to the next!

I've read all your posts again @PuertoVallarta, and it's striking to me that you sound like a friend of mine, who would love to build a life with someone. She too is the type of person to insist on paying for dinner, then complain to me that the man in question did not push back hard enough.

I wonder how vulnerable you let yourself be in relationships. You write a lot about loyalty and being loving, but do you let them see the real you and your needs? My friend in a similar situation - she's so strong and independent, but obviously has a vulnerable side as we all do. I think the men she dates only see her strong and caring side, not the side that shows she needs care too.

She says she would love to find someone who cares for her, but when I raise being vulnerable she looks at me like I have five heads. Does this resonate at all? Sorry if I'm off the mark

I still think true love is possible
Would you say that you need true love to marry, or that you need to marry to have true love?

I guess. I just...I don’t understand why they didn’t want to marry me. It sounds hopelessly naive or self-important. I wasn’t perfect. Nobody’s perfect.

I’m sure part of the problem was that I wasn’t ever upfront even with myself that I wanted to be married. Now I’m very clear on it and I don’t think it makes me a weirdo. It makes me normal. And I’m scared because I don’t want to fall back into old patterns.

@ravenmum I think love is the minimum. I have had that many times. Commitment to building the best possible relationship together, and being truly grateful for having found someone worth building it with is what I want from someone.

I am sorry if this is too simplistic but have you actually ever asked any of these guys to marry you? It's not illegal, you know!

And yes I did ask my husband to marry me.

@Cpl1586407 I try to be vulnerable. I struggle with expressing any needs without sounding like I’m being bossy. How would this vulnerability look? Can I just say directly, “I have this dream relationship in my head and I’m wondering if you have the same kind of ideas?” It sounds so demanding, doesn’t it?

Is that what they said as they broke up with you -- 'Things have run their course? Which is why I'm shagging Linda from Accounts'? Charmers.

@PuertoVallarta, I don't think you sound in the least self-indulgent, you're simply trying to figure out whether you are doing something to sabotage a thing you really want -- and honestly, it is impossible to tell from your posts, which sound self-aware and intelligent, just as it's largely impossible to tell what anyone, even someone you know well, is like inside a relationship.

The only thing that occurs to me as at all possible and a couple of other people have said similar is that perhaps in modelling the behaviour you would like to see in a partner (to 'show up in good faith, and be loyal and put the relationship as a main priority') you are in fact making it less likely that they will, because you are positioning yourself to be taken for granted, rather than to be guessed at or figured out. You are almost too available. You want to encounter someone straightforward and who treats the relationship as a priority, but there's possibly something slightly deadening from their pov about someone who is that focused on the relationship and putting all her cards on the table? Maybe?

I said up the thread that I see similar posts about friendships on here all the time -- 'Why does no one ever get spontaneously in touch with me, when I'm a loyal friend, a good listener, will drop everything to help other people etc etc'? It's because friendships don't arrive out of a code of good behaviour, but out of spontaneous likings, and because you find one another interesting on a longterm basis.

I am certainly not someone who would get a good mark on a friendship test I may not get in touch for months, I withdraw when something is wrong, even from my best friends, I'm self-centered and outspoken politically, I'm not especially polite, I don't do 'checking in' messages, I often don't reply to texts or emails for weeks, I'm easily bored but I have a lot of longterm friends who find whatever good qualities I do have make up for these. And I think it's just that they think I'm interesting. If I've vanished for six months, I will have done something odd or interesting that I'm prepared to talk about.

I don't in the least advocate 'Why Men Love Bitches' or insane game-playing in your case, but I do agree with others that a focus on you might really help. How can the other person meet your needs? (To go back to friendships, another thing I see on here a lot from people who struggle with friendships is 'Why don't they like me?' It has genuinely never occurred to me (as an adult) to ask myself that. When I meet a new person, I am entirely focused on whether I like them, and am not that aware of what they're making of me. There's not much I can do about it anyway.

I'm not advocating my way as in any way superior, but I've never struggled with friendships, so I offer that for what it's worth.

When you say, you're a few months in, and 'as usual, the specialness of me has already worn off' -- you're focusing on the guy's take on you. (Incidentally, how do you know? How does your perception that your specialness is wearing off manifest itself in his behaviour?)

I suppose I'm asking what is your take on him five months in? Are you still as attracted? What is it you like about him? What are his bad points? Does he still work for you, now you know him better? You're auditioning him, too, you know.

To me, vulnerability would mean things like admitting your fears, crying in front of them, apologising if you hurt them, letting them see you on a bad day.

@PuertoVallarta I don't think that sounds demanding. That sounds honest. I'd probably not even call it a dream relationship - I would say I liked him a lot, wanted more commitment, to be official to all friends and family, to look towards living together, maybe eventually marrying and see what they said. You should be able to say that to someone you are being intimate with.

Ultimately I think you need to do away with the idea that expressing your needs and your feelings is somehow demanding. Your feelings are real and important.

It’s good that you are now clear with yourself that you want to be married. It’s not selfish, self-centred, silly or needy to want something, especially when you clearly are prepared to put in the work needed to achieve what you want.

I agree with PP that you should show your vulnerable side, show what you need from him - which to begin with is more of his time. It’s not a lot to ask. Try asking - but be prepared to walk away if he starts on the ‘oh but I’m happy the way we are’ thing, because you’re NOT happy with it.

I think you have an incredibly romantic (no pun intended) view of marriage, I have been married over 30 years and no way are we 'growing together' and becoming 'better people' because of each other - we are two individuals, bound together yes, by years of sharing a home, finances, family etc but that's about it ... both us would be perfectly happy (happier maybe) on our own. I know there are some couples out there who fill your idea of married bliss but not many, in my opinion. My own DPs have been married over 60 years but my DM is counting down the days until she is on her own .... don't over romanticise marriage, I know it's easy for me to say this but it really isn't everything in life.