I don’t understand timing. Is getting married just luck or could I help along the process?

[PuertoVallarta]

I find myself a few months into a new relationship, a-bloody-gain, and as usual the specialness of me seems to have worn off. I’m not a game-player, I’m always very honest and I think I am a nice person. I can honestly say all my exes still love me a lot, but they are not IN LOVE with me...and perhaps not a single one of them ever were.

I find all my relationships stall eventually. I’ve had a lot of relationships! They seem to peak at around six months in, and then we will just ride the plateau with lots of happy times for another year or two, when they tell me they just aren’t feeling it and move on to someone else they will marry rather quickly.

I just want to be married. It’s too late to have children, but I want a family even if it’s just two people. I come from a good working class family. I do have the skill set for a happy family life.

I just severely lack the skill set for getting to the point where I’m someone’s family; for getting to the point where they see me as the woman they want to be a family with.

I have been seeing someone absolutely lovely. But I can’t tell anymore if we’re moving forward. Is this once-a-week thing good enough for him? I never push for commitment. But I also do not hide my desire for one.

I don’t want to waste another two years with someone who isn’t moving the relationship toward marriage. But on the other hand, I wonder if somehow I’m supposed to be the one who’s moving it toward that, only I just don’t know how? I absolutely know how to be committed and loyal. I’ve spent so much money and time and emotional energy on men. I don’t regret it. But I’m at an age where suddenly I will resent it if I get years down the line with someone and then find out he didn’t consider me good enough to spend they rest of his life with.

So what should I do? Put my cards on the table? How soon is too soon? I’ve said I wanted stability and he agreed. Is that enough for now? Or am I supposed to do something to make him think about me as more than a really cool girlfriend? Does there need to be some element of fear of losing me?

I’m calm and I do live life happily day to day. I don’t stress about this in public.

I don’t want to mess it all up. Is it just luck and I have to keep being patient, loving, open, generous? Do I continue to wait for the stars to align and the man I live to look at me one day and see his whole future? Or is that not enough action on my part? And how do you take it slow to figure out if it’s right, without setting the tone that what’s good enough for now will be good enough forever?

(I suppose I should add that I was married in my early 20s. It didn’t last long and I wouldn’t call it a real marriage. I don’t know what I did differently to make him want to commit to me for life, other than perhaps the fact that he was also young and didn’t understand what commitment was so he didn’t mind making it.

I should also add that I was drawn to my current boyfriend because he had been married for over two decades and I though he might be able to move things forward since he clearly like being married. However, I cannot tell if he is just comfortable with me and taking his time, or if I am a placeholder. I do t want to be a psycho because it’s only been five months. But I also don’t want to waste a single second being a placeholder.)

Help?

*men not "mean"

@Changeychange1

I’ve named changed to give you this controversial advice OP

At baseline, men are programmed to hunt, and protect. They are also very visual. In my view you need to look really good (they like to be able to have admiration about their attractive partner), they need to feel feel that they have ‘hunted’ or chosen you and won. They need to feel needed, to protect you - read about the hero instinct. I think a little bit of jealousy goes a long way, they need to be worried about losing you.

I know that this will be a highly criticised post, which is why I’ve name changed. Good luck

100% agree with this post. I don't know why it's very recently become trendy to pretend that men and women are the same and are "interchangeable". They're really not, no matter how much some people want to pretend otherwise.

Men generally go after what they want. I suspect it's why stats show that the longer a couple cohabits, the higher the liklihood of divorce if they do eventually marry. A lot of the stalling before marriage is due to men not feeling sure enough of the woman to commit to her (or to commit to marriage more generally) despite the stories he tells her. If a man REALLY wants you he will pursue. Too many women shoot themselves in the foot by giving a guy everything on a plate and acting like a wife when they're not one. Why bloody give everything when he's not even bothered to legally committed to you yet?? It's totally unfair on you and shows you don't value yourself and what you offer enough. Let him be aware he can lose you!

You seem very focused on marriage rather than a suitable relationship? Is it the 'title' or 'privilege' of marriage that you are seeking?

I think it's different these days because there isn't the same social pressure to marry and people can live together without being judged as it were.

I don't know if there is a trick to it really, a lot of couples I know kind of discussed marriage then bought a ring and told people. Some women I know put their dp under constant pressure until they proposed. It's different for everyone I think.

I think you have to think about why you want to get married, rather than how?

Sorry to be blunt OP, but sounds to me like you are just going through the motions without any real emotional investment in all of you previous relationships. Your posts are pretty passionless, and the 'forcefully' paying for stuff would put more people off than it would endear. You seem to want the marriage but nothing else that comes with it. Also, being working class doesn't make you better at being a family.

I dont know why you are even thinking about marriage if men have been consistently flakey with you tbh.

What if you got a year into the marriage and they THEN decided it wasnt working for them?

If you dont want kids then why bother stressing about marriage? You are complete as an individual. You dont need to marry some bloke to complete your life. Maybe the idea that you do is half the battle. Perhaps you are living too much for others, losing yourself in them and not really sure, as a result, who you are.

Other people should compliment your life, not complete it. And sometimes relationships run their course. Whether you put a ring on it or not. At least if it happens out with marriage you dont need to fork out for a costly divorce.

he had been married for over two decades and I though he might be able to move things forward since he clearly like being married
So he's 40+ - if so, not the typical age to get married - and has already seen one marriage go down the drain, so is potentially cynical about the institution. After 2 decades with the same woman he may also been keen to go out and play the bachelor again, meeting multiple women. He may also assume that you are not that bothered about marriage, seeing as there are no plans for children. (He might even have got together with you based on that presumption.)

Have you ever met someone you really, really wanted to spend the rest of your life with?

@Changeychange1

I’ve named changed to give you this controversial advice OP

At baseline, men are programmed to hunt, and protect. They are also very visual. In my view you need to look really good (they like to be able to have admiration about their attractive partner), they need to feel feel that they have ‘hunted’ or chosen you and won. They need to feel needed, to protect you - read about the hero instinct. I think a little bit of jealousy goes a long way, they need to be worried about losing you.

I know that this will be a highly criticised post, which is why I’ve name changed. Good luck

I am not going to name change. I agree with your sentiments.

At baseline, men are programmed to hunt, and protect. They are also very visual. In my view you need to look really good (they like to be able to have admiration about their attractive partner), they need to feel feel that they have ‘hunted’ or chosen you and won. They need to feel needed, to protect you - read about the hero instinct. I think a little bit of jealousy goes a long way, they need to be worried about losing you.

Yes, that's fairly moronic, so I can see why you namechanged, @Changeychange1. Now, you may personally choose to be one of those women who has never let their husband see them without makeup in twenty years of marriage, or who regards chocolate as 'naughty' because she's permanently dieting in case Darren finds his eyes wandering at work, (and, assuming you followed your own recommendation to read up on his 'hero instinct', you wibble your lip and ask Darren about your work problems, even if you're a neurological consultant and Darren works in B and Q, because it makes him feel manly, like fixing your car and grunting), and who let Darren indulge his inner caveman in the chase for your perfectly-manicured hand in marriage, but, seriously, look around you.

Are you looking at a world where all men are 'go-getting', with their penis as a magic badge which enables them to win the ultimate prizes that are hard-to-get pretty women who have read 'The Rules' and never accept dates after Tuesday? Have you read the Relationships forum on here, which regularly describes men so lazy it's surprising they have a pulse, and would have quickly taken themselves out of the gene pool in hunter gatherer days? Have you noted the existence of happily-married women who aren't conventionally attractive, or choose not to self-present in terms of what men might find attractive? Or the existence of happily-married couples who have never realised they were supposed to run their early relationship in terms of the Dimwit Barbie take on evolutionary biology?

What @tureen said.

I don’t mean to sound as if I’m only focusing on marriage. I have had great relationships and learned a lot. But I have this ideal in my head, of two people who are committed to prioritizing their relationship and being mindful about it. That’s how my family is, that’s how my friendships are, and that’s how I want my relationship to be. I want someone who wants that with me.

I’ve done the passion thing and the independent thing and these are patterns that are easy for me. I guess I want that John Gottmann kind of marriage. And I don’t know how to get there because obviously if I bring it up too soon, it sounds like I don’t care who I marry and that the man is just there to fill a role. That’s not what it is. I just want something really special and I want to be with someone who wants that kind of relationship. I’m well aware things can go bust at any time. My own parents divorced at age 70. So it’s not about security. It’s literally just that I want to have a partner in life like a family.

I don’t know if I can’t find that because of luck, or because I don’t know how to lay the right foundation. I thought I could lead by example. I am at a loss, and just feeling disappointed seeing the same pattern crop up again when he was so into me at first. I want him to have other things going on in his life, so I understand we aren’t together all the time. But should I be worried that he’s okay with once a week? Can two grounded, independent people ever really cross that threshold into interdependence? And do you talk about this just a few months in or is that a passion killer?

Stop being so available. Stop paying for everything. Don't have sex right away. I think you're coming across as needy and desperate, and that's the kiss of death for a relationship.

How do I be less available without seeming like I don’t care?

Oh, is sounding so convoluted!

I think @Suagar put it well. I am tired of falling into the role of pseudo wife. I want to be valued as someone who could be a real wife, with a real husband.

Are you a writer? Your style reminds me of a book I read. Anyway... I don't know, it's perfectly possible you've just not met the guy for you, but you write as if the decisions are all his. I was going out with my boyfriend for six months, we went on holiday and it went great. So I asked him if he wanted to find a flat together. Didn't think about it, just crossed my mind, so I asked. He was super happy. We've now been married 8 years and he's still super happy. Take control.

Also sorry to reply twice but no, once a week is not enough. Before we lived together, we were together most nights, apart from when we were working late, because we both wanted to be.

Show you value yourself as a real person then by concentrating on what you want from the man you’re with, leaving aside marriage/commitment. Does he make you laugh? Scream? Do you feel wanted? Do you want to spend more time with him because it’s great being in his company, or just because more time = closer to the Holy Grail of ‘marriage’?

Other people value you when you value yourself, be selfish and needy if that’s how you feel, stop thinking about ‘scaring him off’. Don’t try to lead, just be you.

And once a week is not enough if YOU feel it’s not enough. It wouldn’t be enough for me.

You've gotten some odd advice on this thread..some good advice too! I agree with posters who say take control.

What would your bf say if you said you would like to see him more than once a week? At six months of dating I would feel confident to ask where he thought this relationship was going, and to say I wanted a committed relationship (if that's what you want with him), and what did he think?

I'd his answers didn't align with mine id end it at that point. So many people (men lol) give the "oooh I like how things are, let's just see how it goes" but tbh they prob want all the convenience of a relationship without the commitment.

If someone is happy to only see you once a week, they are maybe “not that into you”, I think?

Also, why are you forceful (or even “very forceful” in your own words) about paying? Always paying more? Why is that? It takes a kind of trust imo to allow someone to pay for you sometimes (you can always pay next time if you want, there’s no need to battle or be forceful as it takes away he fun.), a lot of people, myself included, actually like paying for someone or treating them. But it’s also nice sometimes to be treated , but people being forceful about paying ruins the atmosphere a bit.

This ties in with the fact that generally people like to see someone’s vulnerable side at times, not just their strong forceful side.

Also, this guy you are seeing, do you love him? Do you want to marry him as you love him so much? Or do you just feel your life is not complete unless you are married?

Either way, you will hopefully meet someone nice some day who deserves and loves you and who you can really love too.

I’ve definitely been the one before the one many many times. I had a long relationship starting in my teens and the week before we were due to get married it ended, 13 years with me and he married the girl he was cheating on me with in under 18 months (to be fair it didn’t last but still).

It started a pattern and from then on pretty much every guy I had a relationship longer than 3 dates with went on to marry the next girl. Whether they were ones I dated with my sensible head on who seemed sorted and like the ‘settling down’ type or whether they were serial shaggers with red flags strewn all over them, each and every one of them suddenly got the urge to settle permanently within no more than a year of things ending with me.

It definitely did shitty things to my self esteem.

I’m married now and out of all my relationships this is probably the one I’ve been least accommodating in. I was really clear from the start (like second date time) that I wanted children so if he didn’t see that in his near future we might as well forget it because I had plans to go it alone and didn’t have time to kill. He definitely got the warts and all version of me from very early on and I’ve always been a bit ‘take it or leave it’ about that - poor DH!

It wasn’t any kind of plan to catch a husband by being more assertive or anything, but that’s definitely how it’s played out.

In your shoes I’d be initiating a conversation along the lines of ‘this is what I see in my future, are you on a similar page’. If that ‘ruins’ things between you then they can’t have been very great/ real in the first place surely? How long are you supposed to pretend not to have any hopes or expectations of the future for before it’s acceptable to reveal that you’d actually quite like a boyfriend you see more than once a week? A man ‘scared off’ by that wouldn’t me worth having really would he?

At five months, or five days, or five weeks, you can always talk about what you want/wanted/dream about from life. You're not telling him what role he is going to play in it; just telling him about yourself. Then you can ask him what he dreams about in future, or what he wanted from life and how satisfied he was with what he got. Neither of you are making any promises; you'd both just be opening up about yourselves. But you'd be able to work out from that if he is totally against the idea of settling down, for example.

@PuertoVallarta this may be hard to hear but once a week sounds like a convenient booty call for him (I hope you're not sleeping with him). I have lovely friends like you and in a lot of cases are even better "catches" than those who married but they are unhappy because they don't see they make the same mistake over and over again with their choice of men. He will almost certainly be another waste of time so in your position I would end things, and to be honest, never got into this arrangement in the first place.

Do not compromise your needs and desires for a man who basically wants a convenient, fun companion and sex partner on his terms. Why should women be afraid to have what they want yet men have all these things without marriage?

You sound like a great woman and life partner, please don't believe there's anything "wrong" with you. Societal changes have meant things have become very advantageous for non-committal men due to a lot more women accepting less than they deserve. However all the power is in your hands because you don't have to accept this. It's harder to find men who will commit nowadays but those women who do, are enjoying the exact type of marriages you desire. These men are out there but they are getting taken while you continue to stay with unsuitable men who will ultimately break your heart.

Oh, OP, I think you are me. Marry me? (Though it probably won’t work, because I think that, insanely, we both still like fellas).

It’s a conversation me and my close girlfriends have endlessly. Because essentially, many men are a bit for shit.....

Do you really want to marry this bloke Sounds like you just want to be married to me.

I wish I had an arranged marriage. I could make it work What makes you think that? You were married once in your 20s, and that didn’t work.

I think that having a relationship for a couple of years and then moving on is pretty much the ideal. Means you’re never living with all the long term resentment and boredom that most marriages seem to entail.

“I should also add that I was drawn to my current boyfriend because he had been married for over two decades and I though he might be able to move things forward since he clearly like being married.”
That’s not a good reason to be drawn to someone. In my experience, the men I’ve dated who have been married before have not been looking to marry again.

I think it's important for you to understand that your view of a marriage is different to most people's in a way - you 'just' want to be married and have that label due to what it represents to you.

I only want to get married to someone I feel differently about to those ive been with before. I would hate for someone to want to marry me to be married, rather than because of me as a person, if that makes sense?

It all feels a bit clinical and that might be more clear than you think for the other person?

I've dated guys before where it became clear after a while that they really wanted a girlfriend so did sort of performance romantic gestures like paying for stuff when I was happy to go halves, sending me gifts I didn't ask for that weren't relevant to anything I had shared about myself but were what they thought 'women' like. Then acted very wounded if I expressed I was uncomfortable about it, as they seemed to think that them doing xyz meant I was horrible for not wanting to get more serious with them. I actually found it really stressful!