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Original poster

Is this manipulative?

31 replies

TemporaryNameChanged · 22/02/2021 11:00

Have NC for this, as might be outing for those concerned.

A friend of mine wants to end his long term relationship (I've not quizzed him on why but he is patently unhappy, constant bickering and arguing, etc.) and has tried and tried to discuss with his partner that he would iike to leave.

She listens, agrees to the terms of their separation, and then acts as though the conversation never happened. So he raises it again, they agree (he thinks) that he will move out, how they will work things out (children involved), and then it's as though the conversation never happened. It's been going on for months. He wants to leave on some kind of good terms (i.e. not just walking out) but she won't recognise that he actually wants to end things.

I think it sounds a bit manipulative, and it's designed to keep him feeling confused and stop him from leaving. I've some experience of a long-term EA relationship myself, and this sort of gaslighting was one of the tactics employed against me.

However, I'm worried that this could be colouring my experience and I'd just like to be able to offer some constructive, impartial advice. I know from experience that dealing with somebody manipulative is completely different to dealing with a "rational" person, but i don't want to assume that everybody else's experiences are like my own.

Just want to be supportive - reading up on manipulative behaviours was very helpful for me, and I'm wondering if sharing some fot he resources I found would be useful for him. But obviously not if this is actually perfectly normal behaviour!

OP posts:
DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 22/02/2021 11:04

It doesn't sound manipulative in the dps part. A bit manipulative on your friends part though.

He talks to her, sorts out the details, discusses the terms of him leaving, then doesn't leave.

He needs to find a place, give her a date, then move out.

AdventureCode · 22/02/2021 11:04

I'm unsure how any of what you've said sounds manipulative. She's agreed to split and he thinks he wants to move out but still hasn't . What more is he expecting, does he want her to help him to do that?

Justmuddlingalong · 22/02/2021 11:06

She thinks he's bluffing because he never follows through. That's not manipulative.

Original poster
TemporaryNameChanged · 22/02/2021 11:11

Thanks, put like that it does sound a bit like he's bluffing. From what he's explained, they agree that he should move out (lockdown having made this a whole lot slower than in normal circumstances) but when he wants to discuss things like childcare and financial arrangements, she acts as though it's the first time he's ever mentioned moving out, and that she never agreed to separate.

Obviosuly it's hard to give all the details as I don't have them... and perhaps I should just butt out and just be a supportive friend when needed!

OP posts:
Yellowhighheels · 22/02/2021 11:27

I don't know what the arrangements are that they agree on but if he's having that conversation and taking no action, I'm not sure what he expects his DP to do, keep asking every day 'when are you leaving then, Keith?', or find him a flat, book a van, pack his bags?

It might be that since they're on good terms and have agreed he will go, she is keeping things friendly, getting on with sorting out the kids and waiting for the nod from him to say he's made the arrangements and is going, so they need to have the talk with the DC etc.

If he wants to go, he needs to do so. It's not for her to hold his hand through it and keep reminding him to sort his exit arrangements out.

Maybe she is in denial but it sounds more confusing for her if he keeps saying 'I'm leaving' then not doing anything. Sounds like he would quite like her to be the bad guy here in some way to make him feel better about leaving, be that making his life uncomfortable now by reacting les civilly to his announcements, or trying to manipulate him into staying. Doesn't sound to me like either is the case, more that she's accepted his plans to leave but is carrying on business as usual for herself and the DC until he does so

Yellowhighheels · 22/02/2021 11:29

Ok cross post,.then he just needs to discuss those things with her. If he keeps saying he will leave and doesn't then she probably thinks he's not serious. He needs to actually move the conversation on to these details.

Topseeturveel · 22/02/2021 11:29

Are you just a friend or do you have an interest in him ending his relationship? This may colour what information he is giving you.

Whatisthisfuckery · 22/02/2021 11:38

No, he sounds like the manipulative one. If he wants to leave then he should just go. He sounds cowardly, like he’s waiting for her to make him feel less guilty about leaving. He wants her to unburden him so he doesn’t have to deal with the emotional fallout of ending it.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 22/02/2021 11:40

He needs to leave, not just talk about it. Is he expecting her to help him pack or something?

Also, be very wary of getting too involved. It's their relationship, not yours.

Simma2 · 22/02/2021 11:44

@TemporaryNameChanged

Thanks, put like that it does sound a bit like he's bluffing. From what he's explained, they agree that he should move out (lockdown having made this a whole lot slower than in normal circumstances) but when he wants to discuss things like childcare and financial arrangements, she acts as though it's the first time he's ever mentioned moving out, and that she never agreed to separate.

Obviosuly it's hard to give all the details as I don't have them... and perhaps I should just butt out and just be a supportive friend when needed!

Maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe he's only giving you part of the details.
Original poster
TemporaryNameChanged · 22/02/2021 11:47

He's just an old friend.

As I was going through leaving my EA relationship I discovered a few female friends going through similar, and we helped each other and had a few shared revelations (about being manipulated, etc.)... So I sort of thought he might be going through something similar as he sounded so worn down and confused by it all - it reminded me so much of how I felt at the time. You think you've agreed to one thing, and then it's like it never happened and somebody's moved the goalposts.

But as I said, it's too easy to let one's advice be coloured by one's own experiences, hence posting here.

I'll just keep my nose out, and not get invested in the whys and wherefores of their separation.

OP posts:
TheLaughingGenome · 22/02/2021 11:52

Is he even looking for somewhere to live?

Palavah · 22/02/2021 11:59

Your OP said that they discuss and agree terms of separation and how things will work with the children but your 2nd post suggests they haven't agreed those things. Which is it?

Original poster
TemporaryNameChanged · 22/02/2021 12:46

@TheLaughingGenome

Yes, he is looking, though estate agents only just reopened recently so not been easy to find a place lately.

OP posts:
Original poster
TemporaryNameChanged · 22/02/2021 12:54

@Palavah

Your OP said that they discuss and agree terms of separation and how things will work with the children but your 2nd post suggests they haven't agreed those things. Which is it?
It sounds confusing because it is: he thinks they have agreed things (i.e. childcare & finances) and then when he mentions going ahead with those plans, or tries to clarify details, she says they never agreed on anything. So they discuss the whole thing again, and he assumes things are settled. And then next time he mentions the separation and she'll say she never agreed to anything (including the separation itself). Maybe he is assuming by discussing, they are agreeing, but she is pretending the conversations never happened at all.

And maybe I am too invested as it's so similar to what happened to me, I just want to be able to help another friend in a similar situation, as my female friends and I supported each other. Or maybe I'm projecting...

OP posts:
Dery · 22/02/2021 13:01

She may be heartbroken by his decision and not wanting to facilitate his departure. If he wants to leave, he should leave and sort the finances/access out once he’s gone.

HomicidalPsychoJungleCat · 22/02/2021 13:13

You sound too invested op. I’d back off and let them sort it out.

HomicidalPsychoJungleCat · 22/02/2021 13:16

Having been through similar, one thing that drives me crazy is people giving unsolicited advice. Has he asked your opinion on this or are you just giving it because you’ve been there and want him to have the benefit of your experience? Its a natural human thing to do, but it gets too much when everyone chips in...Unless its the former then leave him to figure it our I think.

Original poster
TemporaryNameChanged · 22/02/2021 14:28

@HomicidalPsychoJungleCat he does talk about it to me, as we are good friends, but when it comes down to it it is indeed his relationship and it's probably best I leave him to figure it out. I can't say it's unsolicited but I'm so wary of projecting, I think it's probably best to just keep myself a bit further distanced from it all.

Thanks all for your thoughts.

OP posts:
Palavah · 22/02/2021 15:25

Sounds like he needs to put stuff on paper and get on with moving out.

Sideorderofchips · 22/02/2021 15:44

You sound very invested for a 'friend'

Cabinfever10 · 22/02/2021 16:01

The question is is his partner actually agreeing to anything or is your friend telling his partner what he wants re children and finances?
Because he is coming across as a not very nice person. If he is constantly telling her that he's leaving and what the arrangements will be and then doing nothing but bringing it back up and telling her what she allegedly agreed to when from her point of view she never agreed to anything. He is being an abusive bully and very manipulative.

FatCatThinCat · 22/02/2021 16:02

How long has your friend been stringing this out for? It must be torturous for his partner being told repeatedly that it's over and he's leaving, except then he doesn't leave. What does he actually want from her? Because it sounds like he wants her to continue to be his emotional support human.

FatCatThinCat · 22/02/2021 16:04

Also is she continuing to do the wife work while he's leaving but not leaving?

Honeyroar · 22/02/2021 16:08

He needs to just find somewhere to live. Tell her he’s going on X date, then ask her to sit down and discuss childcare etc, and insist a bit if need be. However nice he wants to play it things may well get difficult if she’s upset so he might be best going through a solicitor to arrange things.