Different levels of cleanliness

[Misty9]

This might sound a bit ridiculous, but I've been with my partner nearly 9 months, we're both separated with dc etc so have our own homes and no plans to merge, but our standards of cleanliness are so different and it's starting to really have an impact. We have eow together and increasingly I don't want to spend time in his house as it's so unclean. Now, I'm not a clean freak and probably only clean my bathroom etc about once every 2-3 weeks (it doesn't get that dirty with just me 50% of the time) but if something looks dirty then I'll clean it. I don't know if he just doesn't notice it but he also happily wears obviously dirty clothes quite often. If I make jokey comments about it he gets a bit funny so I don't feel I can come out and say anything. And I do not want to get into a dynamic where I clean his house...

He's a lovely kind man and the relationship is otherwise good. Has anyone else had this issue and managed to resolve it?!

Can you talk to him about it and just say that you’re struggling with it

Changing even one aspect of your own behaviour is hard enough to do and having a conversation about asking another person to change theirs is a futile exercise. What this man does in his house works for him and he is not going to change for his own self let alone the OP. I would think he outright lied to the OP when he stated he did most of the cleaning when he was married.

Are you frightened somewhat of his reaction if you were to start having a difficult conversation or otherwise saying no?.

It’s really hard when you have hugely different standards.
I clean the bathroom and toilets daily and we don’t wear shoes in the house. It drove DH mad, but he’s accepted it now. It’s just the way I am, he doesn’t clean to my standard but he keeps it clean when I’ve done it. He does the things I tell him to do, so I’ll then do the nitty gritty stuff myself.

There are certain things in life you need to be compatible with your partner or it won't work. You need to be at least fairly similar on:

Cleanliness/tidiness/organisation
Whether you are outgoing or extroverted
Values/morals
How you deal with money
Opinions on marriage and having children
Religious views
Politics

You don't have to perfectly align and agree on absolutely everything. But the point is, the further you are from each other in one of these categories, the more it becomes a conflict in your relationship.

@Porridgeoat

Can you talk to him about it and just say that you’re struggling with it

She's not struggling. She doesn't like it, and she knows it. She needs him to change. It's not a struggle, it's a missing boundary.

[quote Eckhart]@Misty9

Maybe I need to think about how to have this difficult conversation

Why is it difficult, though? He's your partner. If you tell him how you feel about how clean you like things (rather than pointing the finger at him), then he should want to respect your feelings. The fact that 'he gets a bit funny so I don't feel I can come out and say anything' is red flaggy, and not just about the cleaning. The communication style in the relationship is that he acts in a way that shuts you up, so that he gets what he wants, and you don't get what you want.

Does this style transfer into other parts of your relationship, other than the cleaning/his cleanliness? From what you've said about your past, I'd imagine it does, but that you'll feel a bit nauseated if you actually have to look that fact straight in the eye.

I've got a question for you: Was 'listening to each other's emotions' demonstrated to you as a child? Were you encouraged to talk about how you feel? Did your parents talk to each other and respect each other's feelings? I think I know the answer...[/quote]
You definitely already know the answer to those questions...!

I'm not worried about his response, I guess it's just because he hasn't reacted well to my subtle comments in the past. But yes, I should be able to have this conversation.

But yes, I should be able to have this conversation

Just to make sure it was clear what I was saying, I don't think that it's a fault in you that you can't. It doesn't really matter whose 'fault' it is. But the dynamic is unhealthy, and if you can't talk to someone you're meant to be close to about your feelings, then it's your responsibility not to make yourself do it, but to be around them less, and find people you are comfortable opening up to.

For a long time I thought that 'having better boundaries' was about me learning to communicate my needs better, but it's actually as simple as finding out whether the other person respects your feelings, and if not, being somewhere where they're not! I spent ages in counselling, trying to work out what was wrong with me and what I needed to change about myself, and it turned out that there was nothing wrong with me, and all I needed to change was who I kept company with. All that counselling to find out that I didn't need counselling

Think about how you feel with your closest friend, or that auntie you can talk to about anything, or... whoever you have in your life who does listen to you and respect you. Doesn't it make you feel like a different you? A better you? A grown up, self possessed, self respecting you?

If he's unresponsive when you've talked to him about how you feel, you need to find someone else or be on your own. It's not the behaviour of a loving partner.

@Eckhart what an insightful post.

I think there is lots of scope for having a real conversation about it. He may get all offended but if so, think of this as part of the process, not the end point.

@Misty9

I've just asked him who did most of the cleaning when he was married. He said he did!

I think that tells you that his wife was even less interested in cleaning than he currently is.... I would never live with him if I was in your shoes

@Eckhart I'm not sure there's anyone in my life with whom I'd feel completely comfortable to bring up an issue. Yes I know that's not healthy... I've sadly been conditioned most of my life to feel like my needs are too big and unreasonable. My current partner has been really good for me in validating me just as I am, along with lots of therapy before I met him!

We've had a bit of a conversation this morning about his kitchen floor at least!

OP, I understand your predicament. The first time my partner came to my place he looked around wide-eyed and said "wow your place is so clean". I am a bit of a clean freak to be fair.

He is not like me. He works a manual job and does long hours so having a clean and tidy house was never the top of his priority list. When he gets time to relax, he wants to do that.

We had the talk about his place. Yes, it was awkward but had to be done. He has made a lot of effort and while it is not to my standards, I know he tries. If he is coming to pick me up to go to his, I remind him sometimes to come later and clean if he has to.

It's about compromise and knowing that he respects me enough to make the effort and make me happy. If he didnt bother we would not still be together. Just my two cent's worth.

I stupidly moved in with someone who was messy. It was horrible, but I should have known. I'm in no way overly keen on cleaning, for me, hygenic and not full of clutter is enough, but eurgh. Honestly, he had no concept of oh that needs cleaning, his standards were through the floor, he didn't wash his hands so the thought of him touching everything made me feel sick, and even if I'd do everything, he still made more mess.

He won't change OP, if his house is messy, he isn't going to change when you move in. With DH it was actually one of the key things sadly I was aware of when dating, as it was such a big deal.

I'm not sure there's anyone in my life with whom I'd feel completely comfortable to bring up an issue. Yes I know that's not healthy

You sound really self aware though, and that's really good. It's about two thirds of the battle.

Let the hunt begin. I'm sorry you've been through such rubbish conditioning. You've got that negative ego thing going on, I think. You know, where you feel like you are somehow especially unimportant compared to other people, and you kind of deserve your needs not to be met. Can you think of any actual reason why, though? Are you actually especially rubbish in any particular way? You don't sound rubbish, you sound really nice. And as if you have standards, which is very respectable.

I hope you've had a clear bit of communication about the floor. Good to get started.

@Misty9

I've just asked him who did most of the cleaning when he was married. He said he did!

So, even if you do clean the place up, because he reluctantly rinses a week old coffee cup once, he'll claim that he does everything round here, he's just treated as a skivvy and your phone on the side proves you're the one making all the mess.

Urgh.

Tell him it makes you feel uncomfortable visiting. Talk to him about how you find it difficult to be in and state it’s obviously his house and he should keep it how he sees fit. He can then decide if he wants to do anything about it.

I dread to think what the floor is like. Do your feet stick to it? You sound like his caseworker OP.

@poppyzbrite4

I dread to think what the floor is like. Do your feet stick to it? You sound like his caseworker OP.

that made me laugh. I've trodden in some unknown stickiness before...

@Porridgeoat

Tell him it makes you feel uncomfortable visiting. Talk to him about how you find it difficult to be in and state it’s obviously his house and he should keep it how he sees fit. He can then decide if he wants to do anything about it.

This is a good framework I think. He has said he'll clean the floor so we'll see...!

@Wanderlusto

As long as you dont want marriage or kids or joint living with him then I suppose its workable. Could you talk him into hiring himself a cleaner when covid lifts?

Cleaners can work in people's homes now - mine does.

I couldn't cope with this either OP. Would suggest you don't live with him unless he improves his standards!

I drove my other half utterly mad and we have actually silt up over it once and are about to again . I wear stained b it clean clothes . I clean but apparently I don't clean properly . I stick clean here down the loo Amd I mop mad Hoover bit it's not enough .

@Windmillwhirl that's really helpful, thank you. I especially like the 'come later if you need to clean first' statement

@Eckhart oh I'm most definitely self aware and thank you for saying I sound nice. I can be! I'm getting there with putting my needs on a par with other people's - it's how I was finally able to leave my dead marriage which was also slowly killing me.

I have NO plans to move in with him!

Oops, a few too many grins there... I'll blame sitting in the sun

Are the sheets clean?

@user1493494961

Are the sheets clean?

Um, not always... As in, I know they've been on there for weeks at a time.