How can I stop these narcissistic controlling attempts from my mother once my baby is born?

[reservoircats]

So as not to drip-feed the relationship between my mother and I has not always been great, she has many narcissist traits and we have very different opinions on money etc. I live over an hour away from her with my husband, have seen her a few times over lockdown (she is on her own and in her late 60s).

I’m almost in my third trimester of my first pregnancy, and there have been multiple times when she has said things that are trying to control my behaviour. It started off in a sort of guiding innocent way, for example “keep eating to keep your strength up” and “don’t buy any maternity clothes as you’ll never wear them again” etc but more recently has transcended into “make sure you eat all the time even if you’re not hungry, don’t post any photos of yourself pregnant on social media, make sure you don’t share the scan online, you’re not buying anything for the baby yet are you.”

I’ve started reducing the level of information I’m giving her and this helps give me some distance from those comments- I’ll admit that I am finding this hard though as I don’t really have anyone else to speak to about how my pregnancy is going. I’m worried that I need to set some boundaries now otherwise this will continue into her controlling my parenting? Has anyone else experienced this and can help me? Is there a blanket phrase that I can use when she says these things that can give me space?

You can say ‘hmm, I’ll think about it thanks’ and leave it at that. Don’t disagree, agree, give feedback, your opinion, show emotion. Just make it extremely boring and dull for her to tell you what to do and she might stop doing it, or at the very least it’ll stop bothering you as you know you don’t have to engage with it. You can breezily brush it off and carry on doing what you planned to do anyway.

Good idea to think this stuff through now and come up with a strategy as it’ll really escalate when the baby is born. Just remember, you’re the parent of the baby, not her. You may not be able to stop her from trying to boss you around (I mean you can, but that’s a separate and more nuclear approach with other techniques) but you can let it wash over you and not give it a moment’s thought.

And find somewhere else to talk about your pregnancy! Are you on Reddit? They usually have bumper groups. For example if you’re due December 2020 the sub would be called december2021bumpers. You can have a look around and try find it and see if it’s still open for new members. I’m still using mine from my baby due in 2019 and it’s been a really valuable place to talk to others at the same stage of pregnancy and then child rearing!

I think you're taking the right approach by minimising what you share with her. Other than that, it's probably best not to rise to the bait and just say something neutral and move the conversation on. Don't get into a debate with her about anything. And try not to let it bother you, she sounds annoying but as long as you're secure and happy with what you're doing, there's no reason to dwell on any of her unhelpful comments.

If none of that works and it's really upsetting you, you're well within your rights to take a step back and not contact her as much. It's hard though as I'm sure you wish the relationship was a supportive one and keep hoping that by sharing your news etc you will get the reaction you're hoping for. The likelihood is that she won't change and isn't really able to be that kind of mum, which is sad. It's probably less painful if you can find a way to accept that. Do you have supportive friends you can talk to about things?

@LemonYellowSquares

I personally think you’re nuts

Does she live alone, it sounds like she’s become a bit obsessed and worried.

This happens when people spend too much time alone

You should be checking and chatting to her and making sure she’s ok

But instead, label her with derogatory terms, and seek reassurance that your horrific attitude to your mother is universally accepted, by your fellow bullies

I honestly think that a lot of people on mumsnet, are the meanest, nastiest, people that I‘ve ever come across

It’s really quite unkind to not take OP at her word that she, having known her mum her whole life, is able to accurately assess their relationship, her mum’s behaviour and it’s impact on her. She certainly has more insight into their relationship dynamic than you do.

Being a parent doesn’t automatically make you a wonderful and kind person.

The other poster here and I are trying to help OP, do you really think your comment is helpful?

OP - you sound OTT. There is nothing in those comments by your mother that are controlling or narcissistic.
Just regular advice mothers give to their pregnant daughters. You don’t need to follow it. It’s just conversation.

She is all on her own and I am sure she is struggling. It’s quite sad that her daughter, instead of being there and sharing the pregnancy experience with her - as a happy thing everybody can focus on - is instead feeling some strange sense of needing to be marking/guarding her territory.

Hope you sort it out somehow. Having a mom around when you have a baby is great. Not everybody has that. Too bad you don’t see it.

I agree with LemonYellowsquares. From what OP has posted, there is nothing narcissistic in her mother's comments, they sound like perfectly normal things a worried mother would make to her newly pregnant daughter. It shows she cares. There's nothing controlling in that and she can very easily ignore the advice she's being given.

Op there's likely a due month group on here you can join to talk to other moms at the same gestation.

Re your mom. Just tell her you'll give it some thought. Do that. Then make your own choice. There's nothing to suggest she's punishing you for non compliance etc just that she's overly opinionated. Trust me, everyone has an option once your pregnant) have a child so learn to filter them all now

To the previous two posters you have clearly never had difficult, bordering on abusive relationships with family members. As @ColdBrightClearMorning touched upon, If you knew what my mother has put me through through my life you wouldn't be saying those things and instead you choose to question my own ability to judge my relationships.
There is a reason every other family member is NC with her yet you forget to remember that when berating me, someone asking for advice.
Thank you for your replies @Aspiringmatriarch and @ColdBrightClearMorning it's good to know I'm not wrong in setting boundaries.

Thanks @SleepingStandingUp :)

Not seeing her much fact to face gives you scope to practice being assertive by text!!
I actually went nc when my dc were young due to too much advice and interfering from dm... Needed to breathe and bring up my dc not her way!! Get those boundaries up now op of you hope to salvage a relationship.. Beware though - crappy dm's make for just as crappy dgm's... Ime.

Absolutely not wrong. And I think it’s worth highlighting that mine and the other useful person’s advice wasn’t exactly mean to your mum, it was a way to help you tolerate her comments so you can maintain some kind of otherwise positive relationship.

Someone who has a positive relationship with a loving mother wouldn’t feel the need to come onto an advice board and ask for support in dealing with this, nor do you have to justify that your relationship with your mum is how it is or provide info about why you know your mum to be narcissistic, people should take you at your word or not comment at all, it’s incredibly rude and I’m sorry you’ve had such nasty replies, good opportunity however to practice the ‘hmm, cool, thanks’ and then breeze over it approach! Not everything aimed at or directed at you has to be listened to or considered, you can refuse to take it on board and leave it at being their stuff, not yours ❤️

@MMmomDD

OP - you sound OTT. There is nothing in those comments by your mother that are controlling or narcissistic. Just regular advice mothers give to their pregnant daughters. You don’t need to follow it. It’s just conversation.

She is all on her own and I am sure she is struggling. It’s quite sad that her daughter, instead of being there and sharing the pregnancy experience with her - as a happy thing everybody can focus on - is instead feeling some strange sense of needing to be marking/guarding her territory.

Hope you sort it out somehow. Having a mom around when you have a baby is great. Not everybody has that. Too bad you don’t see it.

My own mum died a decade before I became a parent.

In absolutely no way does that mean that someone else with a living mum should feel like they have to accept or tolerate painful or hurtful or inappropriate behaviour from their mum just because they should feel lucky to have one.

I was lucky enough to have a lovely mum who I very much wish had been around for my own baby being born. That’s an entirely separate issue to someone else’s problems with their mum, and really inappropriate to try and guilt the OP in that way.

When replies have said that those things she has said are an indication of her caring and normal behaviour. Maybe when combined with examples below, yes.
To me, questions like: how I am? how scans are going? Asking to see a scan photo, asking if I have a bump yet, If we have any name ideas yet, if we have found out the gender yet, are questions that show care and interest. But have I had any of these questions? No. Just her telling me what I can and can't do with photos of myself and what I should and should not buy for the baby.

I would find it very strange if my dad tried to tell me what to do like your mum is tbh, if he tried to tell me what to buy or what I should post online or whatnot I’d look at him like he had two heads: I’m an adult, old enough to be having a child. I don’t need that level of direction anymore. I’m no longer a ten year old.

Normal things my dad said to me during pregnancy: how did the appointment go? Are you planning on finding out the sex? How are you feeling about the birth?

Not telling me what to do.

Please don’t second guess or question yourself, the stuff you’ve mentioned might seem innocuous to some in isolation but there’s a reason it feels wrong to you in context with your overall relationship. I’d find it really bizarre.

@LemonYellowSquares

I personally think you’re nuts

Does she live alone, it sounds like she’s become a bit obsessed and worried.

This happens when people spend too much time alone

You should be checking and chatting to her and making sure she’s ok

But instead, label her with derogatory terms, and seek reassurance that your horrific attitude to your mother is universally accepted, by your fellow bullies

I honestly think that a lot of people on mumsnet, are the meanest, nastiest, people that I‘ve ever come across

I agree that taken at face value the comments are a bit annoying but nothing worse than that, but the OP has said there's a lot of backstory. Why would you choose to disregard that and accuse her of bullying on literally no evidence? The worst anyone has suggested is backing off a bit and finding ways to stop the unhelpful comments from bothering her. That's not bullying.

Because @LemonYellowSquares has opened the thread with a very set preconceived notion around what parent and child relationships are or should be like, and is applying that to OP. And unfortunately lacks the insight to understand that her own relationships might be very different from someone else’s.

@ColdBrightClearMorning

I would find it very strange if my dad tried to tell me what to do like your mum is tbh, if he tried to tell me what to buy or what I should post online or whatnot I’d look at him like he had two heads: I’m an adult, old enough to be having a child. I don’t need that level of direction anymore. I’m no longer a ten year old.

Normal things my dad said to me during pregnancy: how did the appointment go? Are you planning on finding out the sex? How are you feeling about the birth?

Not telling me what to do.

Please don’t second guess or question yourself, the stuff you’ve mentioned might seem innocuous to some in isolation but there’s a reason it feels wrong to you in context with your overall relationship. I’d find it really bizarre.

This is exactly what I feel like saying to her. I'm an adult. Old enough to own a house, be happily married in a well-paying job and make my own decisions on what I can share online and when and what to buy. I feel like every time I tell her anything I'm in apprehension waiting for her to say that I should have done the opposite and then it makes me question myself, which is making me feel uncomfortable and why I'm trying to put up boundaries to prevent this feeling. I really appreciate your opinion, and the fact that it comes from someone whose mother sadly couldn't be around for your pregnancy and birth is very valuable to me. It would be easy to say "well my mother wasn't even around and you're complaining about a few overbearing comments".

I also have a difficult relationship with my mum, who takes offence when I don't take her advice or do what she wants. She didn't speak to me for several weeks after I put my DD in nursery and went back to work. She still doesn't ask me about work 2 years on, as she thinks I should be a SAHM. She does not care what I think, or see how positive it's been for me and my family.

For some PPs, it's not just the giving of advice, which might be normal, it's the reaction when you don't follow that advice that can be challenging.

I'd say its really hard to maintain it, but you need to create some emotional distance and be careful what you tell her. Surround yourself with other people who are supportive and you can talk to. Make sure you're sure of your choices before you even casually mention something to her.

You've got some physical distance which is helpful. But I found pregnancy, birth and early years a difficult time, as you sort of grieve not having the mother other people have, or the approval of the one person that you want and need approval from.

Becoming a parent also gave me a different perspective on my own childhood, and family stories/narrative. Some things I can now see that my parents were trying their best and parenting isn't easy. Other things that I thought were normal at the time, I know I would never do to my own children.

@Motherissues2020 Thank you so much. That is so helpful. I agree in that I'm sure as I become a mother I will understand some of her reasoning more as I face the difficulties of parenting.
You are 100% right in that I am grieving the lack of normality and approval from my mother and that my MIL shows more care and consideration and excitement towards my pregnancy, and that has been hard for me to manage and accept. It is difficult for me not to make comparisons between the messages I receive from my MIL vs the ones I receive from my own mother. I feel quite down about this a lot, and try to not to dwell on it and accept it and move on, I will take on board what you've said about being clear about my own decisions before mentioning them to her, that makes a lot of sense to me.

It would be easy to say "well my mother wasn't even around and you're complaining about a few overbearing comments"

That would be extremely hurtful and unfair of me. I don’t think people can always fully grasp that their own relationships aren’t in any way related to someone else’s relationship. It’d be like a widow saying to someone in an abusive marriage ‘at least your husband is alive so shut up and make the most of it’.

Have you heard of an information diet? It sounds like that could be a helpful approach with your mum to avoid giving her too much ammunition to question and challenge and pass comment on. Coupled with the breezy ‘hmm thanks’ when she does try and tell you what to do. I’m assuming that you’ve already tried the direct conversation where you ask her to stop giving you directions or that you have cause to believe she wouldn’t listen.

You might find it useful to look up the grey rock technique, and the acronym JADE.

JADE can be something useful to keep in mind when interacting with your mum, it stands for justify, argue, defend and explain. Helps you remember not to do those things. Learning not to justify, argue, defend or explain yourself to people who are questioning your decisions or trying to take an inappropriate level of control over your life can really bring peace and self assurance to you! It can be so difficult with parents as we experienced such a lot of years at the start of our life having to and being expected to listen and do what they say, and the transition from that to owning your own decisions and sense of self as an adult isn’t always easy. Your mum is gonna do what your mum is gonna do, the best approach if you want to maintain a relationship is to simply allow her to do her thing but get to a stage where you fully believe and understand that you don’t have to respond to it. The less she gets back from you the less she’s likely to do it as it’s not giving her the attention or drama or validation she’s seeking. But whether he behaviour changes or not it’ll at least give you some power back and make it easier to handle her.

New babies are testing on the best of relationships, I get on great with my dad but did have some issues with my stepmum overstepping her role as a grandma quite a bit that I ended up addressing directly. The difference is that we always have had a great relationship whereas it sounds like this is coming after a long and testing series of challenges with you and your mum. So giving her less and doing less in response is probably the better way forward as you know by now that she’s not likely to listen if you ask her to stop.

@ColdBrightClearMorning I'll look up JADE, it's something I've not heard of before. I admit that I am an extremely defensive person and always feel that I have to justify myself, so I think this will help me set boundaries and eliminate arguments.

I need to work on the "hmm thanks" breezy thing too.

I genuinely don't think my mum sees me as an almost 30 year old adult who can make my own choices. I think she sees me as the one family member she has left that she can control and force her opinion on.

I get you! Google Grey Rock technique.

Have you told her to stop telling you what to do? I had to tell my mother who is very opinionated and was forever telling me what to do. It’s very liberating!