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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SIL is sending my elderly mother upsetting messages. Do I do something?

52 replies

largeprintagathachristie · 16/02/2021 18:26

My SIL has been married to my brother for approx. 20 years. The rest of us immediately saw less and less of him, as she controlled his access to friends and family. (My brother pretty much let this happen and devolved all 'family administration' to her. )

There are incidents after incidents of him not turning up at long planned gatherings - think family flying in for a wedding from all over the world, the one time in, say, five years that my mother would have all her adult children in the same place. SIL would always have an emergency that would scupper plans at the last minute. There is always drama. I can't keep up with who she's not speaking to - she's gone years without speaking to her mother. Then her mother will be back "in" and it's her father that's out. Or a sister.

SIL has been explicit that her nuclear family is all that matters. (Ahem, particularly after the children were older and she didn't need babysitting services.) There's been crazy incidents that I won't use the space here to detail.

At no point, and this actually seems strange to me, has anyone from my brother's side of the family actually say to him, WTF?! On our side I'd say we're quiet, a bit (quite a bit) dysfunctional in our own way; we're not a close family, which is sad, but I think the roots of that go back a long way and we can't change now. We do care about each other. We're also very geographically dispersed.

I've watched cautiously, held my tongue during very occasional visits with my brother and SIL, etc. Visits usually painful with SIL exploding very dramatically, particularly obvious if the attention is not on her. Really difficult to get my brother alone for an actual conversation. He is naturally quiet anyway, and they've also done that thing where they have joint email addresses/messenger accounts.

Two years ago my brother developed a serious health problem. Potentially life limiting, though luckily it has turned out that this is not the case.

Last time I saw SIL alone, a year ago, she was was particularly angry and vitriolic about my mother, who is in her late 80's. That my mother had been a bad parent. Now, my mother is NOT perfect, I'm the first to admit. She wasn't very interested in being a mother and yes, I've visited the Stately Homes thread. Nothing terrible but disinterested in being a mother and stayed in an abusive marriage which affected us as kids and into our adult lives. SIL went on and on with a level of anger that was unnerving, ending with saying that my mother would die, "but nothing will kill her off, she'll last forever."

To not cause a row - hmmm, I see a pattern here - I kind of just took it all, said my mother had little self awareness and in her late 80s, she's realistically unlikely to change. That I had made my peace with it, that it was nothing personal towards SIL. Was pleased to make my escape, also from the very right-wing, anti-vaccer and racist comments.

Since then my mother's had a very hurtful email message from SIL and just recently a weird text. My mum has asked me not to tell anyone else because she fears a blow up where she'll see and hear her son even less.

The main charge against my DM seems to be that she is not sufficiently interested in SIL and is insensitive. The later is true, my DM is TOTALLY INSENSITIVE but she has been since time immemorial - there are standing family jokes about it - and is that a reason to harass a woman who's heading towards 90!?

Reasons to do something:

  • this is OUR mother, not hers, FFS, back off
  • DM is late 80s and has had cancer this year. The messages are upsetting her. She can't sleep. I suspect there have been more messages than she's letting on.

Reasons to do nothing

  • DM doesn't want me to
  • brother is ill. Whatever the marriage is like on the inside, my brother has been with SIL a long time and will be in the future. I assume he doesn't know about the messaging. My mum doesn't want to get him involved.
  • SIL will explode. Go nuclear. I imagine I would never be allowed in her home again and she will restrict access to my brother and access to her children to my mother. My mother will be upset. My other siblings (who have their own SIL stories) will be drawn in. I know this sounds dramatic, but it's got really dark. I suspect there a personality disorder at play here.

Sorry, I imagine this is long!

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 16/02/2021 18:28

Leave it
Sil sounds like a bloody nightmare but no good will come of you getting involved, especially if you mum doesn’t want you to

WeeDangerousSpike · 16/02/2021 18:33

Suggest to your DM that she blocks SIL on everything? OK, that means she probably won't have contact with her son, but it sounds like she doesn't anyway, that all contact is through SIL?
Any 'family wide' communications can be passed on to DM by other family.

willloman · 16/02/2021 18:45

Show your mum how to block sister's number.

swaziscot · 16/02/2021 19:44

It’s such a tricky situation and very hard to see how to handle it. It seems like your SIL is the kind of person where no matter what you try to do it’s not going to work out well. I almost don’t see the point in you talking to her as she probably won’t listen. All I can think of is that you try and protect your mum a bit if you can - maybe by blocking SIL as others have suggested.

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2021 19:47

Yup, block her on your mum’s phone and create a rule for her emails going into junk.

Devlesko · 16/02/2021 19:53

Could you block her on your mums phone?
She'll get no nasty messages then.

Moondust001 · 16/02/2021 20:02

I agree and block the number, but nothing more.

Your brother had been married to her for 20 years. Is he really an idiot? Why do people assume that their relatives are controlled or stupid, and don't know what's happening. He knows. He either doesn't care or agrees.

enjoyingscience · 16/02/2021 20:07

Would it be awful to suggest your mum quietly disinherits them then ignores/blocks? A dish served cold etc etc. Your brother is complicit in this - yes he is quiet and whatever, but he’s presumably perfectly capable of standing up to his DW but chooses not to.

AnotherKrampus · 16/02/2021 20:12

Totally agree with enjoyingscience

AnotherKrampus · 16/02/2021 20:14

Also, it sounds as your brother landed with a very controlling and abusive partner and this length of time, things are unlikely to change. He needs to break free from her controlling behaviour himself.

Countdowntonothing · 16/02/2021 20:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

umpteennamechanges · 16/02/2021 20:28

I would stay out of it.

Everyone else involved is an adult and can choose to deal with it however they like.

Unless your DM has dementia or similar, this is between her and SIL. I don't think just a case of her being a certain age should mean that you step in.

If you really feel like you need to do something then the most appropriate thing would be to have a word with your brother and ask him to nicely calm down his DW. It seems unlikely that he'd actually manage this but this isn't a reason for you to step in either.

StephenBelafonte · 16/02/2021 20:31

I'd go fucking ballistic if someone was upsetting my mum with nasty emails and messages.

Tell her to stop, then block her on your mums phone. Why are they messaging each other anyway?

WaltzingBetty · 16/02/2021 20:58

I'd be phoning my brother and asking if he's unleashed his pit bull deliberately or is this a ploy from SIL to further alienate him from his family? Tell him to grow the bollocks just to go no-contact if that's what he wants, but not to manufacture family rows via his wife.

I'd also be sending him copies of the emails/texts so there's no misunderstanding

Cpl1586407 · 16/02/2021 21:01

I wouldn't msg SIL for all the reasons you list. I would try to block SIL on mums phone, and then if I were really going to do something I'd have a word with my brother. You've mentioned he's unwell, but it's his wife. Sounds like he could be afraid of her but he seems happy to let other people be treated badly by her too

Sssloou · 16/02/2021 21:14

Google “High Conflict Personality” - this is what she is. It’s a trait seen in many PDs.

Basically how you deal with a HCP is to withdraw, grey rock, L/NC.

You will achieve nothing except escalate the situation if you call her out - and inevitably the only people who will be really hurt will be the innocents - your DM, DB any DGC and you ....... your SIL somehow will become the victim.

She gets off on conflict and communication - it’s fuel that she craves - don’t give it to her - that’s your power here.

As others have said protect your DM - teach her to block.

Accept you have lost your DB to her crazy ways.

Don’t let her trigger you - deep breaths when you think of all the shit she has caused. You don’t need her occupying your head and filling you with negative emotions.

Don’t get drawn in because you will end up “wrestling with a pig” somehow you will both get covered in mud - but they love it.

Don’t indulge her. Keep your dignity.

The silence will sting and last longer.

bigbird1969 · 16/02/2021 21:23

Sorry but I wouldnt be sitting back and allowing a woman to be upsetting my mum. My mum wasnt a saint either but she is my mother. So no I wouldnt sit back and keep the peace

Bythemillpond · 16/02/2021 21:32

Dare I suggest that your home life doesn’t sound all that great and you don’t know the ins and outs of your brothers experience growing up. I think people can live in the same family and look back with completely different history. It doesn’t sound like a happy close knit family even before SIL came on the scene and whilst he might not realise it has he picked SIL because she is similar to your mother or are there deep down some aspects of her personality that are similar to his mothers.
You are willing to forgive your mother but is he? Sometimes it is easier to deflect the blame for not going to family events onto his wife rather than admit he doesn’t want to come.
Occasionally he might not have turned up to events because of SIL having a drama but if he really did want to see you all or have some sort of relationship with his mother and siblings I think he would.

You say your mother is insensitive and it is a family joke.
Maybe your SIL and your brother aren’t laughing

Lochmorlich · 16/02/2021 22:13

@Bythemillpond. My db was controlled by his dw. They often didn’t turn up to family events. Saying if he wanted to come he would isn’t always true. My dsil would have got hysterical if my db had gone against her wishes. All sorts of emotional blackmail.

My db is a widower now and he has a really good relationship with his family after 30 years of almost nothing because there’s no one to stop him.

LouHotel · 16/02/2021 22:16

Block her, I would also be concerned that maybe she is bullying your mothers in hope she'll make amends via inheritance.

Also does your mother have a next of kin set up of who is to make decision on her estate, care ect... this is something you can sort to ensure this cant turn into elder abuse.

ColdBrightClearMorning · 16/02/2021 22:16

Your mother said she doesn’t want you getting involved so honour that. You may cause more harm than good and it’s not your place. She may be older but unless there’s some kind of dementia you’re not disclosing she’s still a person capable of managing her own interpersonal relationships and affairs and you need to respect that and not butt in.

largeprintagathachristie · 16/02/2021 22:28

@Sssloou
Thank you. I have googled High Conflict Personality and that is SIL to a tee. That really helps to understand her.

"Histrionic HCPs are preoccupied with being the centre of attention and will often criticize other people’s behavior (their Targets of Blame) in an effort to get sympathy and more attention. "

Histrionic is absolutely how I would describe her.
I did tell my mother about the grey rock technique!

@Bythemillpond
My mother is SIL's main target but it's also been members of SIL's own family (her mother, her father, her sister), neighbours, old friends, you name it. Teachers at her kids' schools were also harassed when the kids were of school age. Even tradespeople have left her house mid job, given the money back and refused to return. My brother's coping solution? He goes out for a long walk. Their marriage, their business but it's becoming my business if she's going to make my mother's last years hell.

OP posts:
largeprintagathachristie · 16/02/2021 22:49

Blocking SIL on my mother's phone isn't an option. Well, it's the nuclear option. I totally understand those of you who are suggesting it, though.

I've talked my mother through ways to contact my DB directly, as, funny that, messages often aren't passed on. He's rubbish at answering his phone but they've worked out a system that if he sees a missed call he'll ring her.

It's suddenly striking me how ridiculous this all is, that we all dance around SIL. But the alternatives do seem worse, sadly.

OP posts:
Pippa234 · 16/02/2021 23:10

I think it depends what the texts say.
You have only said that SIL said your Mum is insensitive which you agree she is and that your Mum isn't sufficiently interested in her, which then makes no sense on your story of her trying to keep your brother away from you all??

I also disagree that people should get away with nasty behaviour just because they have always been like it and are now old.

Just because you are over how your Mum has treated you doesn't mean your brother is.

Thelnebriati · 16/02/2021 23:23

Its possible he hasnt made his peace with his mother because their relationship was worse. It just isn't as simple as SIL is nasty and DB is her victim.
Sometimes quiet people pick more outgoing partners to say the things they cant. Or so they can carry on being the nice one.