Should I stay or leave?

[Momtot]

I’ve done a few threads these past few months about various issues and the general consensus is my partner isn’t supportive enough. It’s got me thinking. We recently got engaged and since then I’ve just been thinking can I really do this forever? Can I be in this for the rest of my life? Marriage is sacred and final to me so I have some big decisions to make.

I made a list of reasons to stay and reasons to leave. I appreciate you’re all strangers and don’t know the ins and outs of everything but I can’t talk to family or friends about this. We’ve been together nearly 5 years and have a 3yo, 2yo and 4month old baby. His dad was a dead beat and his mom left with 5 young children, I’m worried DP turning into him. I also suffer from anxiety and on/off depression in case that makes a difference

Pros/reasons to stay
I love him
He can be very good with the kids
He can be hands on (depends on the day)
He tidies a lot
He’s very playful with the kids
He’s very helpful and generous with other people
He comes across well
He’s got good family values
I find him very attractive
He’s the literal person I always wanted (had a crush on him throughout school)
We’re a family, 3 young children and I don’t want them growing up in a broken home
The though of really leaving him makes me feel sick
We have some lovely times, lovely days as a family
He’s very hardworking and provides well for us, any overtime he takes it
I love him

Cons/reasons to leave
His expectations of me are too high
He puts me down a lot (unintentionally mostly)
He moans a lot
He tidies a lot (con because I feel like I don’t keep the house to his standards)
He goes out with friends a lot and it can feel like he isn’t home much sometimes
I feel like his friends come first sometimes
I don’t feel good enough for him, feel like he’s ashamed of me almost
In arguments he can get nasty (calls me names, tells me to fuck off)
He’s got a short temper (but never violent)
He plays xbox every evening, we never spend time together alone
I don’t feel like I get enough emotional support from him. Struggling at the moment and it’s like he doesn’t care or ignores it
He’s not arrogant, but at home he thinks he rules the roost and what he says goes
He’s in charge of all the money (I’m at home with baby)
I feel a bit like a housewife, not a girlfriend he’s proud of being with
He doesn’t listen to me much, feel like I’m talking to a brick wall
I don’t feel appreciated in any way
He doesn’t help with the baby, it’s like the toddlers are ours but the baby is just my responsibility
He doesn’t do any night wakes from any of the children, so I’m up every hour sometimes dealing with all 3
He has little patience With the kids so I do almost everything to save him getting annoyed
He doesn’t ever make dinner, which is a part of the day I could use help with
I don’t want to be on my own

What would you do? Stay or leave?

Only you can make this decision op. But fwiw you don’t sound very much like equal partners and just by the fact that you are posting this says to me that you’re not very happy.
Good luck op.

That's a long list of reasons to leave, and a lot of them are pretty compelling and show how unhappy you are. You're not a partnership. You're at home with the kids while he still sees his friends, goes to work and controls money.

He doesn't sound very nice to you. He doesn't act as if he loves you, does he?

You weren't together long before you had dc. Sounds like you've changed over the time you've been together.

And btw he does not have good family values if he treats you like shit and has no patience with his own children.

@WineIsMyMainVice I know, I just need to know if this is normal, maybe people have been through tough patches that sound similar but ultimately they were happy in the end?

@tenlittlecygnets the family values was aimed more at his family, his siblings, mom and nieces/nephews. They’re a big, close family
And no, he sometimes acts like he loves me but not very often. I question if he does at all. He tells me he does and it’s just my own insecurities.

How old are you both?

Some of the reasons could be due to the stress of 3 young children, most couples would be overwhelmed and wouldn't get couple time and feel connection is lost

However...he seems nasty and holds you in contempt. This is unlikely to get better as you can't make someone respect you. As the children get older they will see this and either be treated like this by him or start to treat you in a similar way.

Interested in why you think marriage is final however having children is definitely a bigger commitment.
The only reason to marry him would be financial.

Do you love him or are you as likely confusing this with codependency.

This relationship should be over because of the abuse her metes out towards you and in turn your children. He is no decent example of a father to them either if he treats you, their mother, like this. The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

How can you be helped into getting rid of your abuser?. Would you be willing and able to talk to Women’s Aid? Their help can also be accessed via Boots the chemist if you ask the staff there for Ani.
P

Your pros list is actually quite poor and shows also how low your relationship bar is.

Would you want your children as adults to be in such a relationship, no you would not. Abusers too are not nasty all the time but what you are seeing from him is the nice/nasty cycle of abuse which is a continuous one.

Also such men can be quite plausible to those in the outside world but his true nature emerges behind closed doors.

You’re not married yet and you have three young children. You need to think about the practicalities here. Do you own or rent? Whose name is on the mortgage / lease? Can you afford a place of your own or would you be expecting him to move out? How’s your career? Are you going to be able to go back to work full time when your maternity leave ends? Do you have good childcare and family around you to help out? Will he pull his weight in terms of having the kids?

Consider too what you learnt about relationships when you were growing up. Unlearn the crap through counselling for your own self and rebuild your life without him in it day to day.

And better to be from a so called broken home than to remain in one. It’s busted because of him and his abuse of you and in turn your kids who will learn about relationships from him too.

@Momtot, don't listen to what he says. What he does tells you a lot more about how he feels.

And there's no point behaving well with your birth family if you're a shot partner and parent!

@Techway I’m 27 and he’s 30, so still young.
Marriage is final because you’re making that lifelong commitment to one person, why get married if you think it wouldn’t last? Having children is final yes, but doesn’t hold me in a relationship with their dad, it’s a lifelong commitment to the child.

@CallforHecate your comment scares me 🙈 I’m not in a great position, we rent, I’ve been out of work for 4 years while having the babies, but will be looking for a new job come July. I have a lot of family around me as does he, and I think he would definitely pull his weight with seeing the kids etc.

I sometimes wonder if a break up is what it will take to shake him up and make him realise what he stands to lose if he doesn’t change. He recognises his behaviour towards me most of the time, he puts it down to not being romantic or emotional by nature. He’s ex military so he blames his household standards on that, and that’s where his assertive and almost arrogant attitude comes from I think.
We’ve talked about this loads of times and he always promises to make more effort but it never lasts. I just need more from him, maybe we’re just too different in what we want and need from the relationship

Well, my advice to you would be to get yourself into as secure a financial position as possible. It’s never a good idea to be financially dependent on a man. And if you decide to end the relationship the fact that you're not married will limit what support you can claim from him. Do you have a ‘running away’ account? If not then that’s a good place to start - put money aside so you’ve got a cushion if and when you decide to end the relationship. Then focus on getting back into work. Once you’ve got those two things you’ll be in a better position. Look after yourself - he clearly isn’t.

Abuse isn't just physical. It's emotional, verbal, controlling behaviour as well. From your post it does tick quite a lot of abusive relationship boxes. You have had three small children in quick succession, you can't work and rely on him for money, which he controls. He doesn't need to hit you as he already controls you doesn't he. He won't change, they never do. I spent 8 years in an abusive relationship hoping for change, it just got worse. The fact you are confused as to whether things are normal worries me too. I was like this, it's a result of manipulation. Please seek advice from Women's aid, they are professionals and amazing.

Do what you need to do to get a good job, training whatever. Then get the job and this will even things up a bit.

He sounds like he feels it’s him working, his money, therefore everything in his house is his, including you. You’re just an appliance. Lovely.

Once you have your job you can start deciding what to do. If you are married then you will be entitled to things like a percentage if the house if you later divorce.

I think you’ve been so in love with the idea of this fantastic happy family life youve let him tie you down with three kids and the reality that he’s not the man you thought he was is sinking in.

Your choice on how to proceed.

Hopefully your contraception is rock solid? From your description you’re really not happy. Sounds like you work your socks off for no recognition or help. You say he CAN be great with the kids, but then also that you ‘do everything within so they don’t annoy him’, that seems more like Disney dad parenting than ‘proper’ parenting. From your list of negatives, there are a lot of standout phrases - you don’t spend time together, he’s on Xbox every night or out a lot with his friends, you have no money of your own....and many more. Perhaps you feel lonely in this arrangement? More like a childminder, cook and housekeeper (with no time off or a pay packet each month) than a proper partner? What advice would you give a friend in this situation? Are you looking forward to another 20 years like this? If the answer is no, it may be time to prepare to make plans for a better future.

Thank you for your replies. The reality of the situation is definitely sinking in today, the more I think about it the more I struggle for reasons to stay. I tried to talk to him about it this morning but he said he “can’t be bothered to have that conversation” shows how much he cares. I’ll try again when the kids are in bed.

@Elieza and @goody2shooz I think you’ve both hit the nail on the head, he isn’t the man I thought he was. I’ve changed in the last few years and I don’t think we want or prioritise the same things. I definitely feel like the housekeeper rather than a wife-to-be or equal partner. Definitely don’t feel appreciated at all, I feel just completely ignored.

I’m definitely lonely, just really disheartened and fed up.

Leave.
No question.

You would not be on your own going forward, you will have your three children. You're pretty much on your own within this relationship though because he does not give a monkeys about you emotionally or how you facilitate his life. He is clearly not the man you thought he was or just as important, you were led to believe he was.

Do not converse with him about your relationship any longer, he does not want to know because your opinions to him mean bugger all. He is happy as he is and he feels he has you both trapped and under control.

I suppose too it was his idea in the main to have three children; he has used them to keep you on a tight leash. Ensure as of now your contraception is water tight; you do not want any more children by him. I presume they all have his surname as well.

I would urge you to contact Womens Aid via Boots the chemist if you can go out tomorrow. Their stores have consultation rooms in which a person can seek help from domestic violence support services.

Getting a job takes time and I would think he would go all out to try and sabotage all your attempts to get back into the workplace if you are still together. What are your family like,

This man is a dead loss just like his own father was. I note that his parents are no longer together which is no surprise really.

I would also think that your anxiety and depression will improve markedly once you get this deadweight abusive partner of yours out of your day to day life.

Just imagine a home without him there, where you don't have to keep the kids quiet, or rush to to tidy up as he'll be a dick if you don't, no having to appease him.

Having read his reply to you trying to talk to him, I’d expect him to accuse you of nagging if you try to talk to him tonight. You’ve tried several times before - it gets you nowhere. Have you spoken to your parents about your situation? You say you don’t want your children to have a broken home - but honestly darling, they are LIVING in a broken home now. Where daddy calls mummy names and swears at her when he is displeased, where mummy is anxious ( not too far from scared?) of his moods. You are already near as dammit but a single parent cos you do everything anyway. His input is financial, and his dick, if you’ll pardon my saying so. Did you suffer from anxiety and mental health issues before you got involved with this man? If not....
Please ask take some of the excellent advice from the ladies here, your family, and yes- a domestic violence charity. He may not actually hit you, but he is abusing you. Would you treat someone you love like he treats you? You deserve so much better than he can give you. 💐

Oh dear. Except for his tidiness, which he might be doing passively aggressively to show you how you've failed, it looks like it's another one of those -

'Man meets woman. Man fails to tell woman that he has traditional, 1950s expectations of her and brow beats her when she fails to live up to his particular standards'.

I think a lot of women fall into this trap, often through no fault of their own. Their husband's often idolise their heroic mothers and do not appreciate when their wives demand more input (because if my mother did why can't you, sort of attitude). Their wives often feel unappreciated, left to struggle, and feel like they have become their husband's little wifey at home whilst struggling with their husband's increasingly dominant attitude.

The thing is, you're not going to get anywhere by framing this as him 'helping' you. NO. He's not doing you a fucking favor. You are not infringing on his precious time. This should be a TEAM effort.

Without knowing your husband it's difficult to accurately comment, but I think your husband isn't 'becoming' his Dad - he probably always has been like him in character but it's only now (when you just so happen to be married and are in a weaker negotiating position) that he's revealing that. He has most likely inherited some personality traits genetically from his father, and his upbringing and current circumstances are bringing them out.

He’s not arrogant, but at home he thinks he rules the roost and what he says goes

He certainly seems quite dominant and the army is extremely hierarchical. He seems to think that he is your boss and that's why you feel like you are a housewife instead of a valued, respected, cherished partner.

Lets have a look at your loves -

I love him (great, but so what? You've listed so many bad qualities that find it difficult to find enough substantially good things about him to justify you loving him)
He can be very good with the kids (Can be?)
He can be hands on (depends on the day) (again can be, and it's also unreliable as it depends on the day)
He tidies a lot (Great, beats a total slob)
He’s very playful with the kids (Wow - he enjoys the fun bits associated with parenting then, as do a lot of shitty husbands who aren't necessarily there when the going gets tough)
He’s very helpful and generous with other people (Great, shame that's he's not like that with you isn't it? It doesn't mean very much if he's not also like that with you)
He comes across well (well that doesn't really mean much if inside the relationship is crap. What good is a car if it has a shiny exterior you can show other people but the mechanics constantly let you down?)
He’s got good family values ( reaaallllyyyy . Is that what he says all the time vs what he actually does).
I find him very attractive
He’s the literal person I always wanted (had a crush on him throughout school) (why did you want him? Because he was handsome? Popular?)
We’re a family, 3 young children and I don’t want them growing up in a broken home (fair enough)
The though of really leaving him makes me feel sick (it will in a lot of cases. I heard somewhere it takes around 8 weeks for your brain to do most of processing that negative emotion and then it starts getting better)
We have some lovely times, lovely days as a family (How often are these, exactly? Are they dependent on a lot of factors? Are you sure these lovely days aren't massively powered on by you? Are you sure it's not your own positive energy that's lightening them up?)
He’s very hardworking and provides well for us, any overtime he takes it (It's great that he's hardworking, but some men work hard in order to avoid their wives and make sure they get out of the dull parts of parenting. Do do it to give themselves a bit of a break too - don't think it's necessarily all for you despite what he tells you).

Also, you suffer from anxiety and depression. Did you have this before meeting him? Have you considered that this situation is making them worse?

husbands*

50% of marriage end in divorce so it's no longer a ifelong commitment. Having children binds you closer for the rest of your life. You are vulnerable not being married as currently any pension or savings he has will be retained by him solely. Get super practical and find out if you could live on your own financially.

From your cons list
If he really wants to change then get him to focus on how he handles conflict,make it unacceptable for him to get nasty with you. If he was in the Services he knows that he couldn't lose his temper with a senior rank so he must be able to control it.
Also ask him to do joint finances. If he values the family he might be willing to make these changes. If he doesn't you have your answer.