Is being against porn more about the secrecy?

[debbs77]

I discovered last year that my partner was watching porn. Not regularly as such, but would go through stages of it. All sorted, or so I thought.

Discovered in December he was doing it again, every single day for a week, while I was in the next room/downstairs.

I told him then that it is a boundary for me.

He looked up photos of an actress topless this week. I'm gutted.

I totally understand that everyone has the right to privacy, it's their body, they can do what they like etc etc. And I don't think I'd have a problem with it if he was doing this when I was out of the house, or if we had a struggling sex life. But neither are true sex most days, despite a baby.

But I think it is more the secrecy about it. The sneaking off to do it. No different really from someone who promises not to drink, smoke or gamble again, yet does it anyway, knowing how their partner feels about it. It ruins trust

If that’s what your boundary is, keeping it a secret, then tell him. If you want him to stop watching it while you’re in the house, tell him. He needs to respect your feelings on it.
There are many women who hate porn for various reasons.
If you don’t mind him watching it as long as he’s being respectful and honest then that’s fine

What sort of porn is he accessing?

Most pornography now is dominated by hostile misogyny, violence, and general dehumanization and objectification. It is a massive industry that depends on the degradation and exploitation of vulnerable women and children, whose consent is questionable to non-existent.

What would your partner say if you told him you enjoyed watching videos of people having fun inflicting pain and violence on puppies and kittens? He would be pretty fucking horrified I expect. Yet men expect us to be cool with them watching videos of other men doing this to human beings.

Well I guess he can’t be honest because you don’t want him to watch it which is why he is hiding it? If he was honest and saying he is watching it then you wouldn’t be ok with that either

Most porn?? U sure about that? Source please?
Or are you not including Only fans accounts where people self manage? Or the 50 shades films and books? Or lesbian content.

Giving your opinion is one thing but let's not just use lots of long words or u referenced statements to try and back it up

For me it's about the use of women's bodies. The fact that many (I'm not saying all) are vulnerable or worse, deeply and irreparably abused and damaged in the industry. And the fact that no punter can EVER know if he's using one of the rare willing and healthy women or taking advantage of a trafficked or abused or vulnerable person. So by viewing porn at all you are most likely contributing to the abuse of some women.

It's just wrong from that perspective.

Yes I agree OP. My ex and I had a very active sex life, I have no particular qualms about porn (often used to watch it myself and with other partners before him and I got together), but every single time I was out of the room/in the kitchen, he’d put porn on but hide it. Every time I walked in he’d frantically minimise his private windows and lie to my face if I asked what he’d been looking at (in a normal way)

It did destroy the trust as aside from this it was apparently an open, honest partnership and whilst theoretically I had/have no problem - or more accurately accept that it happens- with him watching it, it was the constant sneaky underhand behaviour, like a keyboard Gollum waiting for me to be out the room for a microsecond so he could indulge his “precious”. It made me look at him differently and wonder what else he would lie to my face about.

If he’d been honest (as previous partners were) and/or not just constantly poised for porn any minute I’m not there, that would be different.

I think that the secrecy/lying and the actual porn are separate things for me. I don’t like porn because so much of it is abusive to women, but even if I wasn’t bothered by it I still wouldn’t like that my partner wasn’t being honest with me.

DP and I only use it if the other isn’t interested in any intimacy at that time. I don’t understand why it would be a secret?

Surely as adult humans if we’d like to have an orgasm we should just have one.

Your boundaries are your boundaries, and why or whether other people are against it, okay with it or have no strong feelings about it don't change the fact that you are entitled to set the boundaries that you feel comfortable with around porn use. Your partner can then decide whether he's comfortable with that in turn and either decides that the relationship is more important than his preferred porn use, or vice versa. What's wrong in any context is someone agreeing to act in a way their partner has requested, and then blatantly ignoring that agreement and continuing the behaviour in secret because they still want their own way. Doesn't matter whether that's about viewing porn, getting drunk every weekend, eating the last of the brie or whatever. Either don't agree to something upfront, or agree and stick to it, but don't lie for the sake of a quiet life and then trample over your partner's boundaries regardless.

For me, the problem with porn is with the human trafficking and sexual exploitation. Secrecy doesn't bother me one iota- if DH wants a private wank that's up to him.

Everyone has their own lines in the sand though, as PP said.

For me personally the issue isn’t secrecy. I certainly wouldn’t prefer my husband informing me when he was off to wank to some porn (sorry to be crude).

For me the issue is the porn itself. Over the last few years I’ve moved to feel more and more anti porn especially with issues like website not removing illegal content quickly enough etc. I also think the accessibility and type of porn available is so different now to what it was a few years ago there is a genuine issue with porn addiction with a lot of people.

That my personal feelings anyway.
Obviously if the ‘secrecy’ part is the things that bothers you then that’s fair enough in terms of boundaries in your own relationship.

Thank you for the replies.

I totally agree with a lot of the comments about porn itself.

He isn't doing this all the time or anything like that from what I can gather. But it's the knowing how I feel about it, and doing it anyway.

We have had a huge chat about this earlier today and I've made my feelings 100% clear.

Like I and someone above said, the topic isn't the issue as such. But the total disregard for my feelings.

And the fact he is searching specifically for other women naked etc when I'm in the next room.

I also realise he has likely been doing this during our entire relationship.....just never got caught before. But he didn't know it was an issue for me then (until I found out)

@WineInTheWillows

For me, the problem with porn is with the human trafficking and sexual exploitation. Secrecy doesn't bother me one iota- if DH wants a private wank that's up to him.

Everyone has their own lines in the sand though, as PP said.

This 100%

Have a wank? Absolutely normal.

Watch porn? Not someone that shares the same values as me.

Personally, I would not want to be with a man who was a regular porn user, and I would set that as a boundary and leave if it was not respected.

This is for many reasons:

• misogyny, violence (e.g. choking, or putting hands on neck) and underage sex now seem to be mainstream in porn and I will not endorse that
• the sexual exploitation aspects
• it becomes addictive for some men and can then impact their 'real life' sex life
• it makes sex just about sex and not about a relationship and that goes against my values

Believe me, this is the last time. And only because we, and my children, have so much to lose.

I've seen what he has looked at and from what I could see before nothing raises any flags with me in terms of the video content. Doesn't mean that isn't the case though.

We will be talking about this a lot more tonight

I've seen what he has looked at and from what I could see before nothing raises any flags with me in terms of the video content. Doesn't mean that isn't the case though.

Spend some time researching, you need to understand the effect of the porn industry on women.

Thank you. I will do. Will help to explain my feelings too

Any suggestions on where to start?

@WishingHopingThinkingPraying

For me it's about the use of women's bodies. The fact that many (I'm not saying all) are vulnerable or worse, deeply and irreparably abused and damaged in the industry. And the fact that no punter can EVER know if he's using one of the rare willing and healthy women or taking advantage of a trafficked or abused or vulnerable person. So by viewing porn at all you are most likely contributing to the abuse of some women.

It's just wrong from that perspective.

@WishingHopingThinkingPraying has said exactly what I was thinking.

OP - I think if you are trying to ask questions and analyse reactions - I’d also ask yourself this...
If you are having regular sex and are being made to feel desired and attractive - why does it matter to you how he wanks?
Porn can and does create issues for some couples where regular sex life is replaced by it. This isn’t your case. So why does it bother you?

In addition - what you are describing - topless pictures aren’t really porn. At least not by most people’s definition.
In most European countries people can be topless on the beaches. Women campaign to allow to breastfeed in public - so being able to see breasts isn’t pornographic.

I really do not understand the about of angst generated by this topic among the couples with normal sex life.

Some people have an issue if porn is violent or if people are trafficked.
But this doesn’t seem the case foe you.
I presume the celebrity in question was aware of her topless pictures being taken.

To me - most of the time objections to porn from regular non excessive use situations comes down to insecurities and worrying that their partner might see another woman as sexually attractive.

But that would happen anyway - if not with the topless celebrity - then with other women on the screen/in real life - and they don’t need to be undressed for that.
Just like women see men and find them attractive. Movies like Magic Mike - for eg weren’t made for their storylines.....
People are sexual and see others as sexual and sexually attractive.
Doesn’t mean that it leads to acting on it once we are coupled up.

OP - you have a family and a good relationship. You have a good sex life - and that with a baby - which is not what many couples have. Lots to be said for just baking happy.

If ignoring the "Schroedinger's economy of abuse" argument, having a boundary is fine. Yours seems simple enough to comply with, so discuss how he can have a wank without trampling over your feelings.

Whilst I don't know how representative Mumsnet is I'm struck by number of relationships mentioned on here which are blighted by porn overuse/addiction. The ubiquity of it combined with convenient access can be toxic combination and it looks like many blokes are sadly addicted to detriment of their relationships.

I'm old enough to have spent my formative years in pre internet age but wonder on impact of heavy porn consumption on how some guys relate to women. Really find it difficult to understand how a guy would rather w**k furtively to porn in bathroom than have sex with his partner - seriously screwed up.

I'm an occasional user (mainly femdom or more sensual clips with female directors) viewing both solo and with partner, but can't stand the unpleasant stuff which is prevalent in pop ups on main sites where women are obviously damaged.

Not sure what solution is other than improved education and awareness. Guys who get hooked on it need to take responsibility for their own actions and grow up and would like tighter restrictions against the abusive/illegal stuff.

@MMmomDD

OP - I think if you are trying to ask questions and analyse reactions - I’d also ask yourself this... If you are having regular sex and are being made to feel desired and attractive - why does it matter to you how he wanks? Porn can and does create issues for some couples where regular sex life is replaced by it. This isn’t your case. So why does it bother you?

In addition - what you are describing - topless pictures aren’t really porn. At least not by most people’s definition.
In most European countries people can be topless on the beaches. Women campaign to allow to breastfeed in public - so being able to see breasts isn’t pornographic.

I really do not understand the about of angst generated by this topic among the couples with normal sex life.

Some people have an issue if porn is violent or if people are trafficked.
But this doesn’t seem the case foe you.
I presume the celebrity in question was aware of her topless pictures being taken.

To me - most of the time objections to porn from regular non excessive use situations comes down to insecurities and worrying that their partner might see another woman as sexually attractive.

But that would happen anyway - if not with the topless celebrity - then with other women on the screen/in real life - and they don’t need to be undressed for that.
Just like women see men and find them attractive. Movies like Magic Mike - for eg weren’t made for their storylines.....
People are sexual and see others as sexual and sexually attractive.
Doesn’t mean that it leads to acting on it once we are coupled up.

OP - you have a family and a good relationship. You have a good sex life - and that with a baby - which is not what many couples have. Lots to be said for just baking happy.

Good advice here.

You have every right to set your boundaries where you want, and the ethics of porn have been debated endlessly, we all know the arguments. A lot - though not all - of it is exploitative and worse. But if your relationship is otherwise happy and successful then making this into a make or break issue is an overreaction.

Many, perhaps most, regular guys use porn and most of them have perfectly normal relationships with their DP. Do not jump to the conclusion that he prefers what he sees in porn to you or give him the impression that even looking at another woman is tantamount to cheating. Everyone has masturbation fantasises, as long as they remain fantasies the there's nothing to worry about.

The fact that you are happy with your sex life indicated that his porn use is not affecting the physical side of your relationship, in fact as a man myself I find that porn stimulates my desire for my DW rather than reducing it so it is possible that trying to stop him looking at it will have an adverse effect on his libido.

I agree that daily use and leaving the room when you are there to look at it is worthy of comment but putting your relationship on the line for this is taking things way too far.

You have every right to set your boundaries where you want, and the ethics of porn have been debated endlessly, we all know the arguments. A lot - though not all - of it is exploitative and worse. But if your relationship is otherwise happy and successful then making this into a make or break issue is an overreaction

I couldn't disagree more. If my partner were watching 'exploitative or worse' porn that would be a deal killer for me. I don't want to be with someone who got their kicks from watching women being ' exploited or worse' anymore than I would want to be with someone who enjoyed watching the subjugation and humiliation of people because they are people of colour or Jewish. Totally not an over-reaction for this to be a deal killer. Regarding other humans as of equal worth to oneself is pretty much a basic that I expect of a partner.

For me it’s about misogyny and having a partner whose dick actually works. A recent study showed that 45% of 18-21 year old men experienced erectile dysfunction. Porn is ruining men.

It's the accessibility that I find so scary. 30 years ago when I met DH, he had a few dodgy videos that had come from behind some shop counter, and it was such harmless "soft" porn in terms of graphic filming etc and content.

Nowadays, you can access free porn on your tv, phone, laptop and the majority of it is really aggressive and hardcore. Young lads are watching it and thinking it's what girls expect and like ............. terrifying.