Husband's concerning lack of care towards myself and DC

[Offendingone]

On meeting DH, he seemed extremely caring, generous and attentive.
When I married him and we moved in together (lived apart until this point due to different locations), things gradually started to change.

It was so gradual that we had 2 children. Then, things really surfaced.

He very much lacks care when I or DCs are ill, or any of us are upset or in need of love, reassurance or general care. Practically speaking he can be helpful. But he behaves as if we're inconveniencing him.

DC1 got very upset at the weekend as she divulged to me that she feels like "Daddy doesn't care, he keeps telling me I'm ok when I'm not and tells me that I haven't hurt myself when I have."

I've tried to be the caring, attentive parent due to DHs lack of care, but it clearly hasn't been enough.

His lack of care towards me has eroded away my sense of worth over the years and I'm planning on leaving him. Just this morning, I was awoken at 5.30 am with horrendous stomach cramps due to a chronic stomach condition I have. I was curled into a ball crying on the floor of the bathroom, when he got up to go to the toilet. He literally, looked at me, went to the toilet and then went back to bed without a word. It's been 3 months since my last flare so hardly like I'm doing this every week.

Now he can see that I feel better, he has said "are your period pains ok now?"
I rolled my eyes at him and he has said "why are you in a bad mood?!"

His lack of care has led to him not checking the childrens temperature when in his care and they are clearly poorly and more worryingly, delaying calling an ambulance when DC collapsed and became unconscious. Luckily, I was there and called them myself despite me screaming at him to do so and him saying "let's just see if she comes around."
She'd actually had a hypo and was admitted after being taken to hospital in an ambulance.

If the DCs are ill, he'll proceed to meet friends in the pub (pre-lockdown) and drink enough that he doesn't wake to DCs during the night, leaving all of the care work to me.

He has recently divulged that he never cried when his grandmother died, but was concerned that her death would impact of the upcoming family holiday. I know kids can react like this when they don't understand the meaning of death, but I'm wondering if congitively, there might be something wrong?

He's a very hands on Dad most of the time and we will be looking at shared custody of DCs, but his lack of care towards them bothers me enormously. I'm having counselling due to the way I've been made to feel invisible and like I don't matter, but his behaviour still impacts us all.

He has since attended first aid training since the ambulance incident, which helps, but I know that overall, I can't make him care more about things he ought to.

How do I protect myself and DCs from this?

Have you told him how you feel and what you are seeing? Ask him if he can give a bit more compassion even if it doesn't come naturally, fake it till you make it... It did ring a bell with me for Autism, he might need some coaching in what to do in social situations like giving compassion, what sort of things to say in the situations you've mentioned. But equally you are expecting him to do things that don't come naturally to him so be cautious of criticism.
It's great that he has made an effort for a first aid course!

I don't know why people are trying to convince you his are normal reactions, they don't sound normal to me. I'm not after drama when myself or the children are ill, just a concerned parent, and he's not doing that if he's down the pub or just hesitating with an unconscious child in your arms. I'd want an involved person, who you feel loves and cares for you. If I was in pain, my husband would ask me if I'd like some painkillers, tell the children not to bother me for a bit and leave me for a sleep, perhaps a hug as well, calm concern, not ignoring and stepping over you.

Don't blame you for not wanting another 30 years of feeling invisible and uncared for.

People are different, maybe you need to look at yourself as well as looking at him.

The OP is already looking at herself as well as him, she is seeing a counsellor. And what she is seeing is that he doesn't meet her needs. From what her DD said he isn't meeting her children's needs either.

I was really surprised by all the answers. I thought everyone would read this and think "psychopath". I am not a crier either but if I felt that way about my grandmother's death and missing out on a holiday I would feel ashamed and certainly wouldn't be telling people about it.
Maybe there isn't enough info to know but I certainly don't think there is enough info to say the OP is overreacting.

Have you told him how you want him to act? Like, explicitly? Some men I think potentially may be on the ASD spectrum somewhere or genuinely can’t remember how they were cared for in childhood or whatever, I lived with three guys in Uni, one collapsed drunk and vomiting and hit his head, the other two were pissing themselves at him, literally stepped over him to light a cigarette whilst me and another (female) housemate cleaned him up, put a blanket on him, took it in turns to check on him. The lads said they’d literally have left him as it was his own fault. He could have died! And I’m not a dramatic person I’m quite cool in medical situations. I can imagine their partners having to literally say to them ‘when I feel ill, I want you to bring me a drink and check on me every hour’ or whatever. Your example of being on the bathroom floor is a difficult one as I’d literally want my dp to ignore me, I hate anyone speaking to me or trying to hug or comfort me when I’m in pain or being sick. I like total privacy. What did you want him to do - blanket, glass of water, stroke your hair, sit with you, call for help? Maybe the options of what to do over whelm him and so he ignores it.

You could even try writing explicit instructions for when a child is ill, timings of what to do/say?

Or, he could just be emotion less and literally not care about you all, I doubt it’s that though. When you talk about this what does he say?

I'd expect my adult husband to wake me and ask for help if he needs it, after having taken all the appropriate self help steps. Maybe I'm like OPs husband, but I see no need for hysteria and dramatics to accompany every bout of (usually mild) illness. Seek help when required, of course, but the drama is a hindrance, not a help.

^^
Absolutely this.

Hesitantly I would also consider whether he has ASD, obviously everyone is different and he might not, but some of his behaviours do sound like they could be. Not that it would help you anyway really, it sounds like you are just not compatible, and perhaps when you split you will be happier. DH is semi like this, if he saw me on the bathroom floor in the early hours he would assume I wasn't okay, and so wouldn't ask...but over time he has learnt I guess that it's something I value and would probably say something practical like do you want a drink. He was never like that with DS though, always very concerned when poorly, but overall a bit more laid back I guess, that would be more of a deal breaker than the rest.

He won't ever wake up one morning and be a completely different person, that's not how it works, so if they are things that you don't want to/can't be around then I think it's sensible to consider whether moving on is for the best.

Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that the child in question clearly has T1 diabetes and therefore does have significant health issues? So if her daughter collapses and her husband ignores it she could die?

My dad is a lovely man so generous and fun but growing up he couldn’t cope really with illness especially my mum had a few chronic illnesses, he would make and bring to her food/drinks on request but she used to have her mum round to ‘fuss’ her which used to annoy us as kids but she that’s how she got her emotional need filled when she was ill and she’s someone who needs to discuss all her symptoms in detail, how it’s making her feel, worries etc My dad would just sort of nod awkwardly. Even now in their 60s my mum will wake up feeling unwell and either ring me or her mum and monologue about it, it’s how her emotional needs are met . My dad will bring her a cuppa, paracetamols etc but apart from that he struggles and it works for them

I didn’t think it sound like their T1? I have a type 1 sibling and they diagnosed with very high blood sugars which is usual? It sounded like they had an illness which made them go hypoglycemic, therefore passing out? But I’m probably wrong

@Trisolaris

Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that the child in question clearly has T1 diabetes and therefore does have significant health issues? So if her daughter collapses and her husband ignores it she could die?

I don't have a child with T1 diabetes, so don't know the current advice on this, but having previously had a parent with diabetes, if it is a known condition, my instinct would be for one parent to (calmly): Take blood sugar If blood sugar low, give glucose tablet Re- take blood sugar

Meanwhile, other parent to (calmly) phone for medical advice.I would assume (given age of child) ambulance would be dispatched.

I wouldn't be screaming and panicking. I would be more practical, and focus on what needed to be done.

(Of course protocol may well be different now to what I'm used to, so please don't take the above as medical advice - do as advised by consultant.)

I would see calmly dealing with the situation as the best way to care for the child. I would see drama/hysterics as a hindrance to effectively doing what needs to be done for the child.

I can also assure those people that when your 2.5 year old is lying in your arms unconscious, not waking up and going grey, you are going to make a lot of noise about the other person in the house, who has their phone in their hand to call an ambulance.

I've been there. Only my DD was 18months old. And I made no noise at all. It was terrifying but I knew I had to keep calm and rational. It was a skill I needed several times as my kids grew up. And even now that they're adults. Parenting is tough.

I know the rising panic, and I know how scary it is when it's your child. But it just seemed from your account that your DH was trying to calm you, @Offendingone.

My parents were like that. Little empathy and only cared about their own needs. I now realised they were both narcissistic psychopaths...

I have no contact with them but their lack of care for my physical and mental health had a dire impact on my life.

At least your kid have one responsible and caring parent. I personally would not put up with such a cold and disinterested husband. People show emotions in different ways but if they constantly cold shoulder the people they are supposed to love then there is an issue.

Each individual incidence can be explained away, put together, he's just disinterested in being supportive when you are ill. That might be fine for some people on here, who prefer being ignored apparently and would be fine if their husband popped to the pub leaving them to do all the caring (sick children need monitoring even if they don't need fussing). I would prefer to have a responsive partner who I feel acknowledges my illness, not steps over me, leaves the house or stands there like an idiot when my child is sick.

Once again, the bar is set very very low for men, poor poppets, they do need to go to the pub and can't be expected to cope with illness! Probably why after a cancer diagnosis, many men just leave their wives. Wives almost never leave their husbands. Men are excused caring responsibilities all the time. Showing a small amount of concern, or staying home and giving a child a paracetemol is not high grade caring! I really wonder what some of these men who don't like sickness would do if they had to care for a very sick or terminally ill partner. The thing I liked best about my husband was I knew he would care for me in sickness and in health- he was fab when I had an operation before we married. Sadly for him, he was the one that got sick, and if I'd treated him like people on here think is fine for the OP to be treated, I'd have been pulled apart on here.

You can’t give glucose tablets to someone who is unconscious because they are. . . Unconscious!

By that point you need injectable glucagon and an ambulance ASAP! That bad a hypo can cause brain damage. It’s really serious.

I’m mot trying to over dramatise this, I have T1 and I’ve never experienced this, most people with diabetes won’t. I always can self treat. But for those people with these type of hypos it’s really bad.

@SignsofSpring don’t know why it’s so controversial to want to be left alone when ill it’s quite a common thing?

@Blueeyedgirl21

I didn’t think it sound like their T1? I have a type 1 sibling and they diagnosed with very high blood sugars which is usual? It sounded like they had an illness which made them go hypoglycemic, therefore passing out? But I’m probably wrong

T1 diabetes does cause high blood sugars if untreated as the pancreas can't produce the insulin to regulate them. Once diagnosed and treated with insulin, if someone becomes unconscious it is because the insulin they have had has caused a dangerously low blood sugar, as it's not been balanced by food intake ( infection can cause this amongst other things) and they need glucose rapidly. Either that, or its an Insulinoma.

@Trisolaris

You can’t give glucose tablets to someone who is unconscious because they are. . . Unconscious!

By that point you need injectable glucagon and an ambulance ASAP! That bad a hypo can cause brain damage. It’s really serious.

I’m mot trying to over dramatise this, I have T1 and I’ve never experienced this, most people with diabetes won’t. I always can self treat. But for those people with these type of hypos it’s really bad.

Fair, enough, as I said person I dealt with was an adult and this was some time ago- they knew they were going hypo - went woozy/dizzy, and so taking glucose tablets was first step. Glucose stopped them going unconscious.

OP, Do you love him?

It’s strange to me the variety of responses on mumsnet posts. On some posts the OP will say she was taking care of sick child when her husband went to the pub and he’ll be called horrible kinds of names. Here the majority opinion seems to be why should he have to cancel plans when the OP can clean up the vomit on her own.

I get that if someone is sick there’s often not much practically you can do, although it’s good, but I can’t imagine going to the toilet seeing someone bent over and not saying anything. It’s cold.

And sure not everyone is a big crier but there’s a difference between not crying and telling people you didn’t cry but were worried about how their death would affect your holiday plans. That lack of empathy makes you sound psychopathic.

I wish you well OP with going forward in whatever you decide to do. It sounds like the relationship is over and having never been through a divorce with children I don’t have advice.

He's a very hands on Dad most of the time and we will be looking at shared custody of DCs, but his lack of care towards them bothers me enormously.

When you say "we will be looking at shared custody" does that mean you are both considering separation or divorce? You have already discussed it and he has said that he wants shared custody? Or are you thinking ahead to what might be best before you raise the possibility with him?

I have a type 1 child in the family. Their calm pragmatic parents by default woke several times a night to check his levels months after he’d stabilised , because they couldn’t not because they cared so much. And I had a type 1 aunt. She went into a hypo and died. It’s not overreacting at all.

The way that you phrased this in your OP implies that your DH was not always like this, that at one point he was more caring. This would make me question why he has gradually checked out. Are you quite anxious about your own and DC's health? I'm not judging you for that, I know many people have health anxiety, especially regarding their children. But I wonder if your overreacting to illness has lead to him underreacting - to the point where he now actively ignores it.

Generally speaking I think that it is a positive thing to stay calm in front of your DC so that you do not panic them or give them anxiety too. It lets them know that they are safe, and you are in control. Is your DH trying (and missing the mark) to be the dependable, practical parent as he knows that they do not get this from you?

This being said, I would feel really upset if my DP saw me curled on the floor in pain and just stepped over me. Have you spoken to DH about how you feel to gain his perspective?

Clearly the OP’s child has T1DM, so becoming unconscious should be a huge red flag for any parent that immediate medical attention is required. The only possible explanation for the husband’s reaction other than lack of care is that he has a very low IQ and does not comprehend his child’s disease.

If my husband had a chronic condition that caused him pain maybe four times a year (OP says she hasn’t had an episode in three months) and he was in so much pain he was crying on the bathroom floor I would comfort him, offer whatever assistance I could and offer to transport him to medical services.

All this crap about ASD is rubbish. Do you know that statistically when a wife becomes seriously unwell the husband is MORE likely to leave her? In the reverse situation where the husband becomes sick the opposite is true - they are more likely to remain married. Men are generally not socialised to be caters and when others around them require care some particularly selfish and unaware men see it as an inconvenience.

My DH is a bit like this (so not quite so extreme) and I genuinely think he has mild Aspergers. He's a good man, but he really struggles to show his emotions. He's completely no nonsense when it comes to illness / injury, in the kids or me / him. I can see how hard he has to work to be empathetic. He is completely clueless about social niceties and expectations. For example, I had a really challenging day at work recently, and I called him with a brief explanation and to tell him I'd be home late. When I got home, he didn't ask me anything about it at all. I told him later in that I was upset that he hadn't ask me about my day. He apologised and said he didn't realise he needed to
It's the way he is, and I'm still trying to get used to it after 20yrs together.