Relative with 2 surnames

[UnquietDad]

Not a huge problem, but a niggling one I mentioned a while back and have been meaning to raise again, because it's still bothering me.

Brother and his wife are divorced - it happened when their daughter was about 4.

My niece, who has turned out to be an astonishingly normal teenager bearing in mind the mother she had, sports two surnames. There's the official one on her birth certificate - my brother's name, our family name - and the one she uses in life, her mother's. Use of the family name started to be edged out when she was about 7, obviously under her mother's influence as she'd have been too young to take the decision herself. These days she is very diplomatic - both names start with the same letter and she will often just use her first name and initial. (Which is very cool-sounding, especially as she seems to want to go into the music business in some form!)

As I understand it there is no way her name can be officially changed without it being sanctioned by both parents - is this true? Because I don't think my brother would ever consent to having it changed - it would be seen as a final concession to his cow of a wife who has already made things difficult for him in more ways than you can imagine. Maybe he would if his daughter really wanted it, but I'm not sure. And will it cause problems for her in later life, having one name which she "goes by" and another which is the one on her birth certificate (when she comes to apply for jobs, etc.)?

i would find it annoying, infact i do find it annoying when people send post to my kids with the wrong name on it. when we registered ds1's birth, we just put dp's surname, however when i tried to apply for a dependents grant when i was at uni, i had huge problems, as my son didnt have my surname they wouldnt accept he was my dependent it was a bloody nightmare to sort it out and after that we decided we would give him a double barreled surname, which is what all three boys now have, at the drs, school, etc anywhere they are registered they have a double barrelled surname. my mil hates this and makes a point of sending post to the boys with just tdp's surname, the boys then get confused as they know that they have my surname as well.

she does it because she doesnt like the fact that we arent married and she thinks double barrelled surnames are common and tasteless yet for us it makes sense and it is what we want for our kids. having spoken to the family as a whole most of them do now send post to the boys with the correct name on it, my mil refuses, grrrrrrrrrr

if your neice wishes to be known by or her mother wishes her to be known by that name then you should imo respect her wishes, they may well have very good reasons for doing so. or put both surnames on correspondence?

I disagree. Her 'proper' name is her official name imo. The one on her birth certificate.

Therefore you are entitled to use it on cards etc.

If the OP has a conversation with his DN and she says she would prefer to use the other one then fair enough. But no-one (not the DN or her mother) have had that conversation.

x-post with UQD.

3madboys - the use of the other surname was introduced when she was about 7, first as a double-barrelled thing and then by gradually phasing out the use of her family name altogether. This was done in a totally unilateral way without consulting her father. My brother pretends not to be bothered by it but I know him well enough to know he is seething about it inside.

Oh yes, the mother and grandparents had their reasons for doing it - reasons known as trying to ease out our side of the family altogether and pretend they don't exist.

I think you shouod accept the name she goes by. At 16 she would be known by her brothers surname if she wanted too. It's not quite the same but DP and I aren't married so we have different surnames and the children have his, when dp's parents send us cards they adress them to The dp's surname family and it feels midley offensive and disrespectful to me.

It's very hard to change back now, though, isn't it? She has been indoctrinated by her mother and grandparents and so to change back to her real name would be a deliberate snub to her mother, which of course she wouldn't do. they have beenm clever and manipulative.

well if it was introduced as a double barreled thing then i would use the double barreled surname, that way she still has her dads name and you are acknowledging her mother

3mad - I don't want to acknowledge her mother But to be honest, the double-barrelled thing was only done for a very brief transition period - it's obvious what the ultimate aim was.

'I don't want to acknowledge her mother'

You sound as childish as you think the mother is being

The reasons behind the break up or any of the history of the relationship is neither here nor there in the scenario you have asked about, why should you not use her 'proper' name? It's you that is making this an issue - she uses ONE name, so you should have some respect and use that name.

I had a pretty much identical situation growing up as your niece and the decision not to use my fathers name was not one of disrespect to him,(and certainly was NOT an indication that I was choosing between my parents) although some of his family no doubt took it that way. It was simply the most straightforward choice, I was living with my mother, not my father.

Anyone who continued to address me using my fathers name simply made me feel awkward and like I was being accused of disgarding him.

It's not fair to lay your issues (as valid as they may be)on your niece.

Um, but her mother is her mother.

I agree with you, UD, about the pro-woman bias of a lot of posters.

But you are clearly v v angry at her mother, and, no matter what she's done, being angry at her isn't going to help anything.

Sounded harsh, but her mother hasn't officially communicated anything to our side of the family for over 10 years and has not made any attempt even to acknowledge the existence of my children.

If there had been some attempt at reconciliation I might feel better about it. Maybe I am getting too emotionally involved - some days I feel more angry about it than others.

Look, your issue is with the mother.
Please dont use your niece as a way to get under the skin of your ex-sil its really unfair and cruel.

I think, when a marriage goes wrong, it's unlikely that only one person is to blame. And when things are acrimonious afterwards, ditto.

But if she's furious at your brother, it may not be possible for her to be conciliatory towards his family. And it doesn't sound, from what you're saying, that your extended family likes her much, so I somehow doubt you've been making peace offerings throughout, either.

My stepbrothers had a terrible Dad and havent seen him since they were 2/3 but they still use his surname. It is their official name and it never crossed my dad/stepmum's name to change it.

Personally I would still use the name on her birth certificate or at least the double barrelled one, until I was specifically advised not to. But, you have a good relationship with your niece by the sounds of it so you should focus on that and do what makes her happy.

Would you really be able to do as you advise though? Imagine your brother or sister had split up with someone in the same circumstances and you'd only ever been told second-hand about this change of name. I think what annoys me as well is that my niece had no choice in the matter - at the age of 7 you aren't going to stand up and say "actually, I want daddy's name bacsue it's the name I was born with."

It may occur to how now, of course, but it's much, much harder to change back once it's been done. She'd only do it if she had a major fall-out with her mother or wanted to spite her.

They (her family) have constantly used her as a weapon in the negotiations with my brother and, and far as i can tell, have always been excruciatingly grudging about issues of access.

And, I can see I'm going against the general opinion and dont want to get into a row so wont post again. Good luck with this UQD.

Her mother's family sounds very difficult. But being difficult back isn't going to help, is it? Does the name actually matter? Or is the real issue about access, and building a relationship, and having her still know about her father's family?

(And I wouldn't care about the name thing, I don't think. My kids have my husband's name, and I don't. Actually, I don't think any of my neices or nephews have my family surname, due to complicated situations with adoption and so on.)

My extended family made every effort to like and accept the SIL, as you do when someone brings someone into the family. But she continually made my brother unhappy because she didn't get her way in everything, and was manipulated by her parents into doing so. It's very hard to carry on accepting someone despite their faults when they have done that.

Obviously I don;t say any of this to my niece. It's one of the reasons we don't talk about it - I can't start slagging off her mother in front of her.

DDs 1 and 2 have my xh surname. They chose to keep it and I have never put them under any pressure to change it.

My brother hates my xh and insists on addressing birthday cards with my DHs name. DDs don't like it at all. I think it is wrong and petty.

My brother has a DD with his SO. They are unmarried and his SO wanted their DD to have her family name. Her family are very dominating and he allowed it to keep the peace. I was very tempted to address her birthday card with his name (my maiden name) to make a point, but in the end decided against pettiness.

I don't think the sarcasm or rudeness is of any help to UQD & his views on his family are personal & as we don't know the full story I don't think we can comment.

Basically it's the neices name UQD & maybe you should leave it up to her? She sounds a lovely well-balanced young lady & she knows she is loved by both sides of the family by the sounds of it so whatever she is called she will always be special to you!

My parents divorced when I was just starting secondary school, and my mother did legally change my name to a double barrelled version (with father's signature but against his wishes IYSWIM). I have 3 siblings. My sister and one of my brothers have never really adopted this change and have continued over the last 20 years to use our father's surname for everything except genuinely official documents (passports, tax returns etc) and this has not really caused them any problems. I use the double barrelled version as I found it easier to simply use one name for everything than to constantly explain the scenario. My youngest brother generally uses my mother's name for day-to-day things and the double-barrelled version on official documents. We each made our own choice and prefer people to respect this, although we also put up politely with all those who still refuse to do so. Interestingly this does not in any way reflect the strength of our relationship with our father as my sister, who steadfastly continues to use his name has not spoken to him for about 10 years, other than being polite to him at my wedding, whereas the youngest, who uses mum's name, sees more of him than the rest of us put together.

Has it occurred to you that actually this is all pretty irrelevant. If your SIL has deliberately done this to annoy you why allow her to be so effective. The initial solution sounds like a neat one so why not respect your niece's choice and follow her lead? She is old enough to choose for herself what sort of relationship she wants to have with her father, you and your family, and the easier you make life for her the more likely she is to carry on pursuing that relationship regardless of her mother's wishes.

In response to the question about having 2 names, do bear in mind that lots of married women use their husband's name for official documents but continue to use their maiden name for work and never have any problems with this. I am in the forces and know lots of women with a different name on their ID card to the one on their passport, all of whom manage this situation without any difficulty.

Finally - I didn't change my name when I got married but DH's family think I should have, so now I cheerily open mail addressed to me in 3 different surnames, depending on whether it comes from dad's family, DH's family or from people who are willing to use the double barrelled version, and frankly life is too short to get upset about it.

Sorry for the rant...

Thanks for the advice, everyone.