CW/maybe TW? Tinder date brief fling bothering me

[Blueeyedgirl21]

Ok this will be really long and it might be what you call ‘triggering’ but I just really want some anonymous perspectives on this please if you could let me know what you think?? This happened about 3 years ago now. It’s such a long time I don’t know why I’m even thinking about it now.

Met a guy on tinder - there was a language barrier so chat was nice but sometimes a bit stilted, he was attractive and complimentary and had an interesting job. I met with him one evening we had a nice meal, went back to his, OK we had sex it was average and the next morning I made my excuses and he dropped me home, nothing bad he was just very keen for a morning blowjob and I really didn’t want to do it, he did the hand in the hair, pushing head down etc, he even got some flavored stuff out and said use this it won’t be so bad etc. Ended up doing this weird handjob type thing which was super awkward, he didn’t reciprocate and I felt a bit weird about it - I was almost annoyed at myself as I really wanted a relationship with someone - anyone - to work out and I thought I needed to get over my own sex hang ups and just be more open minded and cool about things, I’d hear about friends doing crazy stuff and having amazing sex in restaurant bathrooms and cars and at work and I’d think I can’t even bring myself to give a guy a blowjob?

Anyway I went on to a second date a week later, we had drinks at his and I was pretty much smashed before we even went out. More wine with a meal, and a taxi back to his, I vaguely remember him stopping at a late night shop for even more wine - he poured me the biggest glass ever back at his and I sipped it and could feel the vomit rising like, no way can I drink this - then he took my jeans off on the sofa and got into the bedroom, don’t remember how, he might have carried me, I was intoxicated at this point , I admit I remember feeling a bit excited as I was drunk, not had a relationship for years and not a casual sex type of person so I kind of saw myself from above you know this fun girl who sleeps with hot foreign men in their apartment and drinks red wine. Anyway we lie down and the room is spinning and I feel really sick, he is pants off, putting on a condom and I just think it will probably be over really soon anyway so no point saying anything now. Anyway I think I was in and out of consciousness at this point as it was like waves of nausea, it was pitch black in there and I felt the condom coming off, he swore and put it back on and it just all felt like such a chore or something I just had to endure, no pleasure at all, he eventually just loses the condom as I can feel it just laying there and then he , or I don’t know if it was, penetrated me anally, it was really painful and he did apologize but every three or four thrusts he did it again and it wasn’t like a prod - it was like almost all the way in - and then he carried on until he finished. I fell asleep before he finished, I think, and woke up about an hour later absolutely spinning and with the driest mouth in the world thought no fuck this and got up and dressed (absolutely zero underwear no idea where it was), he doesn’t even wake up or pretends not to I don’t know. I got an Uber which came in like five minutes and got downstairs of the building in the lifts somehow, must have looked an absolute state - I know I was fucked up because I religiously remove my makeup with expensive makeup remover which I spend a fortune on, even after wild nights out with friends and when camping or staying over at random places my face gets washed at least, and I had a full face of makeup smeared everywhere. Anyway I got in the taxi and threw up violently out of the window, it was about 4 miles home and when I got there I again vommed violently but managed to wash my face and get some sleep. Woke up several hours later and was sick again about four times, I do get really bad hangovers so it’s not that unusual for me in those days to react like that, but I was also sort of aching and there was some bleeding when I went for a wee for a few hours - I also realized my ‘back passage’ was hurting, sort of a bruised feeling which was mortifying but again I didn’t really think that it was that bad, I was annoyed he had done that but thought maybe it’s really hard for guys to ‘get the right hole’ when they are in the midst of quite forceful sex? I know now that actually it’s not that easy to accidentally penetrate there, I must’ve been very malleable because I was so drunk and out of it, as now if I was having good sex with my partner he’d realize straight away he was heading that way and say sorry and we would probably laugh about it.

I didn’t hear from the guy until about 1pm, he didn’t ring repeatedly wondering if I’d been abducted by aliens or anything, like you might if someone literally disappeared from your bed whilst you slept at 3am, it was a ‘oh did you leave’ type message and I said something like ‘haha yeah I was so drunk’ and that was that. A bit more messaging superficially for a day or so. I was in two minds whether to say something about how bad the sex was, when tumble weed, nothing from him for weeks, before he sent a ‘sorry I haven’t been in touch I don’t think we will work as a couple’ message which I ignored. I wasn’t arsed at that point, but some part of me did think if I’d been cooler, less drunk, less of a mess, willing to do the kinky shit I’m sure he was into, then things would have been better ? I was annoyed with myself almost that I’d let this stupid situation happen?

The other thing that really bothered me was the fact that as someone who has been paranoid about accidentally getting pregnant since I learnt about how babies are made in a terrifying sexual Ed class in primary, I was freaking out about the fact that the condom left the situation half way through, I never thought about STDs it never really occurred to me, but I was paranoid to the point of doing a test three weeks later, and I wasn’t fully relieved until I got my actual period.

Anyway I just think about this a lot at the moment , it was horrible and I hated it and the days that followed but it wasn’t like assault in tv shows where the assailant is violent and the girl is crying with a bloody lip and some stranger finds her, a kind doctor takes care of her and she begins an inspiring path to healing, or whatever he fuck happens, it was just a nothing situation, no one noticed anything and I just moved on so I think why bother about this now? He probably hasn’t even considered it since so why am I here so much time later considering things and wondering why it bothers me? I have good friends who have been through worse - one was in a relationship which was abusive and one was assaulted in a more obvious way so I have never felt comfortable talking about it with them as I almost feel like I’m trying to ‘prove’ I was assaulted even though it wasn’t as bad as theirs, and I as a person am quite emotionless when I speak, for example I rarely get visibly upset even at funerals and stuff and have a reputation for being a bit of an ice queen emotionally so I think I’d just feel like a robot just saying lines and they would be baffled.

Thanks if you’ve got this far, I’ve never actually written it down or said it out loud especially not in chronological order so it’s a bit of a jumble. I just think it’s not rape, I see it as like as assault which I consented to through my actions? And the long and short of it is that we all have had terrible sex before, this is just something to learn from? I wonder sometimes why I even give it head space.

@Deathgrip your post makes so much sense. Thank you. I think my partner thinks that because I discussed the old ‘one in five’ thing with him as in one in five women experience assault and he said he didn’t believe that was real and that there’d surely be more outrage if that was true if 1 in five women were being dragged off and raped ? I said yes but there’s degrees to it, it’s not always like that and he said yes but are they counting a wolf whistle as assault now? And I was like I don’t know it’s not always black and white and he agreed but I think he thinks it’s a bit of pc gone mad, whereas if he knew what it was actually like in the moment, throwing up in a taxi alone, the worrying for week after if I was going to have to decide whether to have an abortion even looking up abortion clinics (yes I know I wasn’t even pregnant) he would understand it’s just getting that across. I couldn’t even tell him that my close friend who he is also close with, had experience sexual violence, because I didn’t want his view of her to change, that’s not even me it’s my friend... honestly I’m weird I know

The chances are, you probably do not have anything. But I think it would do you good to get yourself checked. It obviously plays on your mind. Chlamydia, if untreated can lead to fertility problems. I am not trying to scare you. You are probably 100% fine but you should for your own piece of mind. Can you pick one good friend to confide in first?

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@Deathgrip your post makes so much sense. Thank you. I think my partner thinks that because I discussed the old ‘one in five’ thing with him as in one in five women experience assault and he said he didn’t believe that was real and that there’d surely be more outrage if that was true if 1 in five women were being dragged off and raped ? I said yes but there’s degrees to it, it’s not always like that and he said yes but are they counting a wolf whistle as assault now? And I was like I don’t know it’s not always black and white and he agreed but I think he thinks it’s a bit of pc gone mad, whereas if he knew what it was actually like in the moment, throwing up in a taxi alone, the worrying for week after if I was going to have to decide whether to have an abortion even looking up abortion clinics (yes I know I wasn’t even pregnant) he would understand it’s just getting that across. I couldn’t even tell him that my close friend who he is also close with, had experience sexual violence, because I didn’t want his view of her to change, that’s not even me it’s my friend... honestly I’m weird I know[/quote]
I'd say your current partner isn't as good as you say he is either. That's why you don't want to tell him. The support would be inexistent and some of the things he might say would damage the relationship forever.

TBH, at the moment that's ok. You need to get your head straight first , get support from people who will give it unconditionally (contact rape crisis,your GP, or any of the organisations listed here www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rsa/rape-and-sexual-assault/support-for-victims-of-rape-and-sexual-assault/ ) . Once you are getting helped and supported, hopefully with therapy set up you can think about telling your partner,his reaction etc.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose thank you I do think there’s some truth to that in a way, not that he’s a bad man just that this is so far from his comfort zone , from anything he deals with (he’s quite laddish although he has been so good with friends with MH issues, he has his own issues with feelings and showing his emotions from childhood traumas (losing mum in primary school) and I am typically very stable and make the best of things which is what he likes as he can’t cope with big feelings, I am not the best emotional support for people either I admit i am fixer who thinks practically instead of being there for people sometimes and I think my partner likes that about me. I sometimes think I’ve constructed that to make myself able to deal with hard things in life though. I’m going to look at that link. Thank you

Hope you're ok op. The reason you kept messaging him is because you didn't want to believe it at the time. Most women don't like to think of themselves as vulnerable because were not but can sometimes end up in vulnerable situations like you did here but didn't want to admit it to yourself. Hipefully by sharing this experience you can begin to move on, I know I did x

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@nevernotstruggling can I ask, if you don’t mind, and it’s ok if not, what happened with you in 2001 was it a bad date type situation? And how did your friend bring the conversation up?[/quote]
I don't mind. Incidentally I haven't told my dp either. Partly because it was 20 years ago but also if he says the wrong thing I will lose my shit. Though this thread makes me think I need to just dump it on him and see what happens.

Back in 2001 I came back to the uk from working abroad. Something like a travel rep type job. Really wild with drinking and partying but doing that with people I knew really well most of the time.
When I came back to uk I got a job in a wine bar. Seemed perfect and fun until I figured out my next step. The manager was from another English speaking country but not uk. He was quite charismatic and fun initially. He organised lots of social things but it was apparent he singled me out after a while. I wasn't interested. One night he invited out everyone to a neighbouring city for drinks. I was happy to go it was a group to start off with. I can barely remember anything of the night not even the bars we went to. I went from sober to out of it very fast. I only have snap shots. Something about frangelico. Then I was in a taxi alone with the manager and asking it to pull over so I could vomit. Then being in the street outside his flat. Then bring naked and having sex. Then noting. I was so confused in the morning and very very unwell. I can remember the stomach churning can ride home looking like hell. I didn't take anything out with me to tidy myself up - why would I I had expected to be in my own house!

I've speculated more than once that I was spiked. I was quite a big drinker back then but that is the most ill I've ever been and the most blacked out for hours on end. It just doesn't add up.

My friend asked me about it because he had heard a rumour I had slept with that person and was very surprised. We weren't close at the time (friend) but we did become so later on. I guess he had to know me a bit longer to feel able to bring it up. He was furious when he realised what had happened. Wanted to report it. I wasn't against this but the person had returned to their home county not longer after the event. There wasn't much point.

I went through a lot of 'well I got drunk with a man I didn't really know and put myself in a very dangerous situation' with myself. I know that's horse shit though.

@nevernotstruggling thanks for your reply. It does sound really similar with the blacking out and remembering snapshots. It’s horrible because you second guess what happened - if I remembered more would it be clearer what happened was an assault or would I be more sure that it was just bad sex?
I think that it’s clear in your post that your manager was getting you drunk on purpose, maybe even spiking you, I didn’t look at it like that, but it’s clear now that my situation was the same, why have the wine out at 3pm, I like a drink I had a three glasses last night even, but there’s no need to go on a bender on a second date with no other friends. My partner now would never have encouraged that when we first started going out.

@Blueeyedgirl21 I also really related to the trying to normalise it. In my mind I tried to make it 'ooops I got smashed and shagged my boss' except I didn't and I wouldn't have. But in my mind I assumed I'd made the decision to do it. I must have. There was texting afterward too. I wonder if they know to do that - because it makes it seem so far away from what people think a rape looks like?

@nevernotstruggling well if I’d reported it at the time and they’d looked at his phone and seen me apologizing for leaving his flat at 3am, there would be absolutely nothing to arrest him for would they, how could they possibly think it was an assault?

I am now really annoyed I did that. And that I looked at my phone for weeks wondering if he’d message and whether he was still arsed about me. What an absolute idiot. He had probably moved on and repeated the night with others he met on tinder. Which makes me feel very ill.

Hi OP, I'm very sorry about what happened to you. It is rape, as you were far too drunk/incoherent to consent, to the sex but also the anal penetration.

I think you should make talk to Rape Crisis or to a therapist. From your posts, I am quite shocked that you think your partner wouldn't understanding what happened, and if this is true, why would have chosen to be with someone like this. Obviously it is your decision, but the sort of man who denies rape (unless it's in an alleyway with a stranger), is someone who has some odd thoughts about women and sex...

I am sensing that you lost a lot of your power that day to you rapist, and have never quite found it back? If so therapy could help you be less tentative, and more confident about your beliefs, needs and concerns/fears - not minimising them, or thinking they're irrelevant. What happened to you was no doubt traumatic but you deserve a partner who understands, supports and doesn't blame you or deny this happened. And you need to feel comfortable in accepting you deserve more from life, from men especially - men who care for you, put you first, don't abuse your trust and look after you (rather than you always being the fixer).

@GreenlandTheMovie

You didn't give consent to anal sex.

I think its possible you were given Rohypnol.

You should probably report it to the police, even though it occurred 3 years ago. I can understand why you might not want to though.

Who gives a fuck about his feelings? He certainly didn't care about yours?

My first though when you mentioned the semi-consciousness and banging headache was rohypnol. So so sorry you’ve had to endure this by yourself. You should definitely talk to someone.

It's rape. I'm so sorry. I completely understand your mixed feelings about this. I had a few hook ups with a guy where we indulged in quite rough kinky sex. He was very much into anal but I made it clear I was not. He stuck his dick in me anally so hard that ai screamed then said it was an accident. It WASNT. Do women routinely "slip" and penetrate men? I think not. Men simply think their wants are more important. Please week counselling.

Seek

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@nevernotstruggling well if I’d reported it at the time and they’d looked at his phone and seen me apologizing for leaving his flat at 3am, there would be absolutely nothing to arrest him for would they, how could they possibly think it was an assault?

I am now really annoyed I did that. And that I looked at my phone for weeks wondering if he’d message and whether he was still arsed about me. What an absolute idiot. He had probably moved on and repeated the night with others he met on tinder. Which makes me feel very ill.[/quote]
So sorry you've had to process all that.

In your situation I would contact the police anyway. It's unlikely they'll be able to prosecute but I'd do it more for 'if this guy is reported by another woman one day, here's my story & contact details so ypu can make a better case against him'.

I've had almost the exact same experience many many years ago, hooked up with a guy one night stand and I got so so drunk, similar happened and tbh I've no idea how I got out, I just left grabbed a taxi and spent the next few days a bit wobbly and unsure.

I've never really spoken about it, I felt it was my fault, this was in my 20s, I'm in my 40s now and it still pops into my head.

So 100% talk about it to people you trust, get it out of your system.

Honestly, if you were to do a survey of women who were raped in this type of situation (which, remember, is the majority of sexual assaults and rape), you would find that seemingly normal contact after an assault is the norm.

When things like this happen, there isn’t a big flashing neon arrow saying RAPE. Seeing it on TV from the outside and being inside it are completely different. I think it’s almost self protective. We don’t want to be victims of sexual violence, we want there to be another explanation, especially since if this happens on a date or with a friend or colleague, this is someone we know to an extent and like.

If you watched this scene play out in a film, would you think it was consensual sex? Of course not.

And much like women don’t want to see what’s happened to them as rape and can rationalise it for years, often these men don’t see themselves as rapists either. Years ago there was an infamous, now-deleted thread on Reddit which became known as Ask A Rapist. Thousands and thousands of comments from men who had raped or sexually assaulted a woman, and the vast majority knew they didn’t have consent but didn’t see it as rape at the time - they had the opportunity and they could have sex so they did. They didn’t think about what this was called. Some later recognised it for what it was, but the majority of rapists don’t appear to wander around thinking “I’m going to rape someone today”. I think it’s highly likely this man drugged you and therefore this was premeditated, sadly.

As for “bad sex”, that’s when you’re with someone who’s crap in bed or doesn’t care about you enjoying yourself. Sex without consent is never bad sex - it’s rape.

Your thoughts and feelings about what have happened are completely normal. You are not weird, you haven’t reacted wrong. This is what happens, this is what we do to protect ourselves. Perfect victims who instantly recognise what has happened in this type of situation only exist on TV.

You were raped.

And it makes me fucking mad for you.

Our brains do some funny shit when we've had a trauma. I was assaulted. And my brain did some funny shit but it all comes down to survival.

So everyone has heard of fight or flight. But few people have heard of freeze. Alot of the time people freeze and don't say anything. Most assaults are committed by people we know personally, not random strangers attacking us at night. We sometimes end up doing whatever we can to survive, we placate our attacker, we talk to them... it is your reptilian brain telling you to survive at all costs.

I ended up having conversations with my attacker. I was trying to distract him I think. My brain was desperately trying to find a way to distract him. We talked about his wife. Thay didn't work. He told me about some tragic stuff in his military tours which even made me feel sorry for him. And then he carried on....

It was a massive mind fuck.

It will cause you trauma. It will fuck with your head. It will make you question things. You will blame yourself because that's the way society makes us feel... you've had those messages all through your life through the media and social circles. Your OH has demonstrated it too... minimising the seriousness of assault and rape.
How dare he!

You can still report this to the police. I'll bet you've not been the only one who has had this happen at his hands. If you don't want to, find your local Rape and Sexual Assault Counselling service.

It will give you a chance to sort through this and give you some clarity. You will realise that you were NOT in the wrong in any way. You did not lead him on. It was not your fault.

Rape happens because some people are rapists.
There is no other reason.

Thanks for the last couple of comments. I lay awake last night literally wracking my brain for memories from that night, started seriously second guessing things. I am pretty sure he removed my jeans and I walked myself in to the bedroom, but it was straight into sex, no prelude, nothing enjoyable, from there.

I’ve noticed I’ve been doing some weird things recently - re read a book about sexual assault (Luckiest Girl In The World) and I have found myself rewinding and rewatching scenes dealing with it in tv shows or films if it comes up. I even searched on netflix for stuff about rape or assault and watched some horrible documentaries. So bizarre it’s almost like I’m provoking myself into feeling something? does anyone else find themselves doing this? I usually hear about people avoiding watching or reading about it.

Just re read that ‘thanks for the comments’ sounds pathetic ... honestly though genuinely thank you. It really means a lot that people give a shit

I still do that now. 10 years on.

I watch quite a few things to do with rape and sexual assault.

It's my minds way of processing things, reminding myself how wrong it was and on some level, finding people, real people who have been through similar.

I found it pretty hard in the early days to find someone who could understand what I had been through. There is a small comfort to be had in finding out that other people feel just as you do.

Have you seen The Keepers?

Very good (albeit very disturbing) crime documentary.

@PlinkPlink I am weirdly relieved to see that message. I have not watched the keepers, no. Is it on Netflix ?

Op there's a guest post that's just gone up about assault, you might find it helpful?

An ex of mine anally raped me telling me he'd "accidentally" got the wrong hole. It's disgusting. I'm so sorry you were raped, none of it was your fault.

Would you speak to someone at rape crisis?

I have looked at the chat function on Rape crisis but I keep missing the slots for it because of work (working from home and lots of meetings and emails). Would I just copy and paste what I put here? What do they say? Do they tell you to go to some sort of group thing, because I can honestly think of nothing worse . Honestly if we weren’t in lockdown I’d just ask a good friend out for a drink, drink half a bottle of wine for Dutch courage and bring the whole thing up in a roundabout way and see what they think about it all. But I can’t do that. I can’t bring myself to set up a zoom so I can talk about this. I have thought about booking an STD test as I’d convinced myself I’d had my first smear after this happened and they did one then, and it was fine, but I’ve realized my timings are way out and I hadn’t had the smear after it was before.

I’ve been on a few websites and nothing resonates with me they’re all about childhood abuse or incest and people falling into deep depressions which therapists heroically bring them out of, Or stories of people going to the hospital and what it’s like having a rape exam etc

I have also just stalked the guy online (I know this is a terrible idea, but I found out his surname through a work website I remember him talking about (think a who’s who on a company page he worked for) and I’ve just seen he has moved abroad, far from here and where he’s from. That’s interesting to me. I wonder if he never found the woman for him, who’d accept this type of stuff he did