My DM doesn't think I should have another baby and it's not just my age. It bloody hurts!

[AfterEightAnyTime]

Hi,

Bit of background - my DW and I have been considering extending our family for a few years now. We have been considering both donor IUI/IVF and adoption. I'm 36 and have a dc from a previous relationship.

Whenever I have mentioned this to my mum, it's always met with a look of concern, almost anger and comments such as - "I think you're mad!", "Do you realise your age puts you at high risk of abnormalities?" "Why don't you just enjoy the early freedom and be thankful for what you have?" And the one that hurts the most, when discussing IUI/IVF - "I think it's wrong that your baby won't have a dad". And when discussing adoption - "It could be a disaster and ruin your lives!"

She has NEVER asked how things are progressing, asked if we have decided to go down a particular route or even asked if we have changed our minds.

It's been months since I've brought it up, because I can't stand the absolute stone cold, joyless response. We are now in a position where we really do want to move forward with IUI/IVF, but it honestly breaks my heart that my mum won't be happy for us. Won't be excited to be a grandma again.

My first dc was a surprise and I was very young, so whereas she loves my dc to pieces, the pregnancy was not met with any happiness initially. I understood that. I was young, as I say and not in a particularly happy relationship, but things are completely different now. I'm happily married, financially secure, happier, more confident, but again, I won't get that jump up and down -"Oh wow! That's amazing, congratulations!" reaction, that I so desperately want...and deserve I think.

Yes, I would prefer to be a few years younger and yes, I wish that dw and I could have a baby together without any intervention, but this is our decision and I desperately want the support of my mum.

That's not wrong is it? I probably do let it bother me far too much. We are close, so her opinion does matter to me, but she can be unintentionally very cutting and sometimes, just completely thoughtless and insensitive.

Any advice would be appreciated.

TIA

@MixMatch, "deliberately chose to remove the opportunity for them to have a loving dad". They're not a "dad"

I do wonder if you would say the same to a heterosexual couple, who needed to use donor sperm because the husband/partner was infertile. The dc would still be denied the right to know their biological "father" (until they were 18) but would still have two loving parents. So is it more that I will have "denied" them a male parent?

@EmbMonStu, thank you. I hope so.

@Doremifasolatido, I'm sorry, that must have been horrible, but so glad she came to her senses in the end.

@MixMatch

Well, of course a child never knowing one of their own biological parents who makes up half of who they are, and knowing that the other parent deliberately chose to remove the opportunity for them to have a loving dad, is going to affect the child. It won't be a problem for you because have your partner but I think she's simply looking at it from the child's perspective.

I sort of agree with this. And I think people are naive not to think that many people- and not just people of a certain generation - have mixed or complicated feelings about this. Of course you will generally hear 'oh that's so great' or 'congratulations, that's amazing' etc but your mum, for want of a better phrase, has a dog in this fight, it's her potential grandchild - and her child if course- who are involved so of course she will have and express a view.

I also think that when the reality of a baby happens, she will be fine and supportive, not perhaps exactly how you envisage it, but not everyone does excited either. When life comes in, it has a way of making doubts melt away. One of my friends, married, early 30s told her mother she was pregnant and her response was tears and exhortations that she had ruined her life. She is the most devoted grandmother now. My own mother is a very practical person, a great support to me but I certainly never got the gushing or indeed much interest in my pregnancy etc.

@MixMatch

Well, of course a child never knowing one of their own biological parents who makes up half of who they are, and knowing that the other parent deliberately chose to remove the opportunity for them to have a loving dad, is going to affect the child. It won't be a problem for you because have your partner but I think she's simply looking at it from the child's perspective.

This. You child may not mind not having a father, or it might traumatise them, and that’s something to consider.

I'm sorry, but I have not come on here asking general opinions of donor conceptions. That is incredibly personal and nothing to do with anyone, but us.

Dress it up as you like, but this is a prejudice view.

And actually, research shows that the dc conceived through donor sperm and eggs who struggle, are the ones who are not told until much later in life.

But as I said, I'm not going to argue about how I choose to have our baby.

@AfterEightAnyTime

I'm sorry, but I have not come on here asking general opinions of donor conceptions. That is incredibly personal and nothing to do with anyone, but us.

Dress it up as you like, but this is a prejudice view.

And actually, research shows that the dc conceived through donor sperm and eggs who struggle, are the ones who are not told until much later in life.

But as I said, I'm not going to argue about how I choose to have our baby.

That's fair enough, but surely the 'how' is (very likely) germane to your mother's attitude, you may be 100% convinced that what you are doing is entirely unproblematic, ethical, positive etc but she may well not. Hence, the lack of positivity, etc. Like it or not, you are doing something which is still somewhat outside the norm and I think you are unrealistic and a little unfair to expect your mother to be jumping up and down with excitement. If you are as defensive in real life as you are here, then perhaps you are not meeting your mother half way or genuinely listening to her concerns. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them but she is entitled to have them.

@theleafandnotthetree, if I am as defensive in rl as I am on here?

[quote AfterEightAnyTime]@theleafandnotthetree, if I am as defensive in rl as I am on here?[/quote]
I just the impression from what you write that unless your mother is 100% enthusiastic, involved, jumping up and down with excitement with your life choices that you take it very badly and possibly would be defensive. Look, I separated myself a number of years and my mother was basically supportive but also had very mixed feelings, voiced her concerns, was thinking of my children and how it would affect them, of my ex-husband, was worried about all of our futures. That doesn't make her unsupportive, it means she saw some of the wider picture and cared about us all. I know it's not the same thing at all and you see what you want to do as 100% positive and have no doubts at all and that's great for you. But I think that your mother is a person in her own right and will have her views, to expect the people in our lives to not have any opinion on our choices is naive. Being supportive is a more complex thing than 'yeah, this is so great!'.

Aw, my Love.
I missed the bit where you said you and your partner are gay. This is even more of a reason your mum should be supporting you.
I know that I'd support my children if one was gay and wanted to have children.
Families come in all sorts of shapes and sizes these days.
There's a woman and her same sex partner on here who adopted, the poor child was scared of men due to her early life.
The female parents were exactly what that child needed.
I hope your mum comes round to the idea and I wish you the very best.

Ahh I feel it's more to do with how you're doing it too.
It's unfair but if it is that, she is unlikely to change her opinion.

In your shoes I would lower my expectations in regard to how you want her to react. Accept that you're not going to receive excitement from her.

I wouldn't discuss it with her at all tbh.
I'm sure when a baby arrived she'd be different.

Good luck and best wishes with everything.

How old is your existing child? If they're 18, I can see her point. If they're 2, not so much.

My DD school friends Mum started having babies again, when her youngest left High School. I definitely thought she was mad!

I strongly suspect your dm is struggling a bit with your same sex relationship. As you indicated your first child was a surprise, that means you were in a heterosexual relationship. She may be finding the donor aspect in particular tricky.

I'm not passing judgment at all, kids need loving parents their gender matters not, but she might find it hard to get her head around

I feel like I have been very understanding and patient with my mum (and dad) as it certainly wasn't expected for them. I had only ever had boyfriends, am very feminine etc (not that that means anything in reality!) and I have let a lot of the "little" things go, but actually when I look back, maybe they should also consider how traumatic it was for me as a young teen, starting to realise their sexuality, hearing on a regular basis, how perverted homosexuality was. When I say regular, I mean practically daily. Any hint of same sex relationships on TV would be abruptly and angrily turned off - "not in our house". Articles about celebs coming out would be brought to my attention (I wasn't reading the paper at that age!) about how disgusting it was, unnatural and warped.

So, no. I think I have been understanding enough. More than they have deserved.

Of course I can't force excitement or demand support, but I have forgiven a lot. If I don't get a glimmer of happiness with this, I am in no doubt it will damage our relationship.

36 isn't old, what's wrong with her? I'm planning to have a second when I'm 38 (if it all goes to plan) and I'm 34 right now with a 2 yo. My best suggestion is not to update her with any news about trying for another dc and just get on with it. Don't let anyone influence you about what you want.

Do what I do, ignore your mother and her opinions and do your own thing. She isn't going to live with the consequences, you are. You are an adult.

Gosh, reading your update, I'm surprised you tell them anything.
They sound awful, tbh.
It seems like you have bent over backwards to get them to appreciate who you are.
It must be very hurtful, I can't imagine treating any of mine like this, they ought to be ashamed.
You know you aren't likely to get their blessing or any suport and encouragement, they have always been like this.
Please look after yourself and dw, you deserve people in your life who are on the same page.
Bless you, I hope you find happiness as a parent again.

@AfterEightAnyTime

I feel like I have been very understanding and patient with my mum (and dad) as it certainly wasn't expected for them. I had only ever had boyfriends, am very feminine etc (not that that means anything in reality!) and I have let a lot of the "little" things go, but actually when I look back, maybe they should also consider how traumatic it was for me as a young teen, starting to realise their sexuality, hearing on a regular basis, how perverted homosexuality was. When I say regular, I mean practically daily. Any hint of same sex relationships on TV would be abruptly and angrily turned off - "not in our house". Articles about celebs coming out would be brought to my attention (I wasn't reading the paper at that age!) about how disgusting it was, unnatural and warped.

So, no. I think I have been understanding enough. More than they have deserved.

Of course I can't force excitement or demand support, but I have forgiven a lot. If I don't get a glimmer of happiness with this, I am in no doubt it will damage our relationship.

Apologies @AfterEightAnyTime, that does put a bit of a different complexion on it, in so far as your parents were actively hostile towards homosexuality and yes, clearly quite bigoted as opposed to just indifferent or not particularly positive. Quite understandably, you have been hurt by these comments and the lingering feelings of disapproval, etc. and rightly so. Clearly, somewhat of a journey has been made to where they were to where your mother is now in terms of her attitude to your wife but not all the way to where you would like her to be. I think as others have said, you have to just do your own thing and what feels right for you and accept the limitations of your relationship with your mother. You are possibly looking for something from her that you will never get and making peace with that is the only thing you can do for now. I'll say it again, I have no doubt that a live baby will shift things again and, it's much harder to remain hard in the face of a beautiful and loved little child. Good luck with everything and apologies if I was hard on you previously.

It definitely sounds like her response is due to her homophobia. I’m sorry she isn’t being supportive.

Blimey you 36 not 46 - you are not controversially old to have a baby.

Am sorry your Ma is being a bitch. Joyless is a good word - is she just a bit like this generally or a bit of judgeyness about you having a DW not a DH.

ANYWAY ignore, crack on - once the baby turns up she’ll most likely be delighted. But in the meantime I’d just stop talking to her about it - will only upset you, and ditto I probably wouldn’t tell her till you are 3 months pregnant -

Thank you @Devlesko

@theleafandnotthetree, I appreciate that - thank you. I know she will love the dc. I have no doubts about that. I have other family members and of course, all our friends, who will be very happy and excited for us, but even after everything, my mum and I are very close and so those reactions from others won't really be the same.

@partyatthepalace, she is judgey, 100%! But in lots of ways, she is a very caring and for everything else, supportive mum. She would defend our relationship to the end to a stranger, but that is more because someone is being unkind about me. Deep down, I know she probably still holds the same homophobic opinions, if maybe a little diluted over the years.

"till you are 3 months pregnant". This made me smile

It sounds like your mum has too many opinions and you value her opinions too much.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a baby if that's what you want to do. However you go about it. Next time, challenge her.

"That's very unsupportive mum, can I ask why you keep trying to be negative about it?".

"I don't agree with you and don't want you to keep sharing those views with me".

"Are you projecting your own feelings mum? Only I'm confident and happy with our decision so don't need your advice".

Yes she's your mum but you're an adult. And her comments about needing a dad are ridiculous, sexist and homophobic.

Think it's time you told her to be quiet.

It sounds like your mum has too many opinions and you value her opinions too much.

Yep.

@HighSpecWhistle, sometimes the silence is worse. She hasn't mentioned anything (and neither have I) since early last summer. We were edging towards adoption at that stage and I talked to her about it on the phone for a long time. Not total doom and gloom, but generally, "I don't think it's a good idea" was the tone. I told her that I was having a really important appointment the next day, which I was really nervous about. She has never asked about the outcome. I decided from that day that I wouldn't speak to her about it anymore.

Now we're at this stage and it's brought it all back. I'm longing to pick up the phone and say "mum, guess what! We're ttc - you're going to be a grandma again!" but her reaction will crush me, so I won't.

This is so sad to read, I'm just old enough to be your mum had I had you young.
I just want to give you a big hug, all any parent should want for their child is their happiness.
I would be so proud of you and your caring heart.