Everyone expects a relationship with our baby

[firsttimemumannoyed]

This will probably be incredibly long so I apologise in advance. Me and DH will be welcoming our first baby in a few weeks via ELCS (this is for a number of reasons). We live in the same area as my family and DH’s family all live on the opposite side of the city.

Basically, my family (mum in particular) are being extremely pushy about being very involved with baby once they arrive. I have 2 siblings (one younger one older) and my mum is unbearable. We decided to tell my mum I was having a C Section and straight away she started talking about telling my sibling/their partner and my other sibling. She pulled her face and could not understand it when I told her not to, that we were coming to terms with it and preparing ourselves and didn’t feel anybody else needed to know.

Youngest sibling and their partner live with my parents and basically take the piss. They have (or had if you asked my parents which is a lie but that’s a whole other thread) a drug problem and have caused innumerable problems over the last 2 years including bringing drug dealers to the door asking for money etc. And my mum and dad just keep forgiving them. They have a good job and earn plenty of money. Their partner does too yet they live it up pissing money up the wall and acting like my elderly parents’ house is their house. They pay a tiny amount of rent and my mum does their washing etc which I think is a joke. They are incredibly disrespectful. My sibling’s partner has never liked me and feels “intimidated” by me (according to my mother) and did not react well when I announced my pregnancy and has acted very strange ever since. Neither of them have ever asked me or DH about scans, how the pregnancy is going, nor have they been to visit us or attempted to get in touch or reach out, yet will say to my parents how they can’t wait for the baby to be born and they (and my mum) seem to think that they are going to be heavily involved with the baby. I do not want them around my child and my mum seems to think I should be allowing them to be “uncle and auntie” even though I don’t have a real relationship with them myself.

Eldest sibling is mid-thirties, never had a partner (or any sort of relationship) and relies on my mum and dad to do everything for them. They lived with them until a couple of years back and have only very recently moved into their own place. They can’t do the most basic of tasks (e.g ordering something online) and there are a number of other problems I have with them which are too vile to list. My mum is always telling me to message them, get in touch with them, let them come and visit (which we did for a while when the lockdown wasn’t in effect but it was unbearable, they have terrible personal hygiene and no social skills and will sit there for 3 hours not taking the hint of when to leave but making no attempt at conversation etc). My mum said earlier that they had bought a gift for the baby so she didn’t like to “keep excluding them” but we have never asked for anything from them, nor did we expect a gift and honestly I don’t know why they have bought one (if they have). We sent them a Christmas card out of courtesy and they never acknowledged it or said thank you and the last time we saw them was months ago. I also wouldn’t be comfortable accepting any gift (we don’t have a relationship and I don’t want one with them and with the way they live I would not feel safe accepting a gift that they had kept in their home as it would only mean more washing for us etc as they live in filth).

My mum treats me like a child and expects me to give her every detail of my life and I feel pressured into telling her things. She expects to speak several times a day and I feel pressured into answering her calls and responding to messages because she would probably turn up at the door if I didn’t. She goes on about having the baby (meaning unattended at their house) all the time which isn’t something we would be comfortable with and gets quite nasty if I try and put my foot down. She also acts like DH’s family don’t exist and will openly say things like how she doesn’t see MIL as the baby’s grandma, how they can’t do this that and the other etc. This really annoys and upsets DH as she’s erasing his family and thinks she’s the only grandparent or relative that matters. This is really threatening our relationship and she does not respect the fact I don’t want my siblings etc to know every detail of my life and don’t want them involved with the baby when they don’t even have a relationship with me or my husband.

I don’t know what else I can possibly say to her because she makes me feel guilty and will turn nasty or cry if I try and put my foot down. I’m sick of doing things to please other people and trying to remain civil at the cost of my own feelings. I am heavily pregnant, in pain, we are preparing for a caesarean and becoming parents and we really don’t need this. DH’s family haven’t been pushy at all and have asked us if we need anything to let them know, they will respect our wishes with regards to visits etc (obviously COVID is also affecting all of this) and it’s been great but my family are a constant source of anxiety and annoyance. I don’t know what to do because I don’t want to cut them off completely (my dad just agrees with whatever my mum says/does for an easy life) but I do not feel like our feelings are respected or even taken into account, it’s like we are just there to facilitate my mum being a grandma (it’s her first grandchild).

Again, apologies for the length of this!! I will be incredibly grateful if anyone reads it or takes the time to reply.

OP, you're going to have trouble with your mother whatever you do. So, decide what you want, and stick to it. For example, handing your baby over to be looked after... totally unnecessary, decide you won't do it, and don't. Other people will get used to it (or not) but your life will be improved beyond measure.

From your insinuations I’m assuming your older sibling is a pedophile? If so, and your mother doesn’t see an issue with that, you have to take very solid precautions to ensure she never has the baby in any situation where your older sibling could be involved. It’s so, so hard with a difficult family dynamic but you’re going to have to have to have a frank conversation with your mother and inform her that because your older sibling isn’t safe to be around a baby, and she doesn’t seem to acknowledge the seriousness of that, you can’t ever let her have the baby unsupervised. Explain that she can visit you alone (if you’re comfortable with that) but that that’s the extent of it. And if she kicks off, remind her that you’re in charge of whether she has any relationship with the baby at all, so she can accept your rules or accept nothing.

It’s not going to be easy but it’s what you have to do for the sake of your baby. The alternative - potentially exposing them to a pedophile - simply isn’t an option.

Not sure if it's the same for everyone, but once I become a mother, I just didn't give a fuck about any of this stuff on a day to day level. Obviously some stuff still bothered me on a deeper level but if I didn't want someone involved with my baby then they just weren't.

You're an adult and you can just say no to anything but if you really struggle with that, you should probably see a therapist.

The problem is that you give a shit if she tantrums. You need to change that. I won't bore you with what is a very long story but I used to be terrified of upsetting my mother. It took 20 years, several tragedies and one ( I genuinely believe ) serious crime for me to finally, genuinely, fully stop giving a flying fuck what she thought about anything. It changed my life!

I know that it isn't easy but I also know that freedom feels amazing.

Emotionally this is going to be incredibly draining at first, so prepare yourself for that.

However, in a practical sense, this is all very simple. This is your baby. What you say goes. It doesn't matter if your mum argues or decides differently or whatever. You say X is what is happening, and then she can either complain lots or accept it, but either way, X happens. Your mother doesn't actually have any power to control any of this in any way. All she can do is say things. If you don't trust her to do things your way then don't allow her to be alone with the baby.

Make sure she doesn't have a key to the house, and keep your door locked at all times. If she has a key and you can't get it back off her then change the locks. If she turns up announced and it isn't convenient for you then don't answer the door. What a shame that she has wasted her own time by turning up and expecting to barge in when nothing was arranged. If she calls and you don't answer then tough shit. You return her calls when it is convenient to do so.

I know some of what I'm saying here might sound harsh/drastic, but from what you have described here, your mother requires drastic action. You need to lay down the law and be strong as steel, or she will trample all over you and take over everything. Don't let her. Be strong!

OP, I'd say that everything you're feeling is to be expected considering what you've said about your upbringing, and it sounds like you're going through a stage of realisation that I have also gone through myself. It's rough but once you get out the other side, things improve massively.

If you google 'worksheets for healthy boundaries' you'll find various information sheets about boundary setting which may be invaluable. I had no idea what healthy boundaries were, (didn't even know they existed!) and found it so useful, - it seems like your mum has also forced some pretty unhealthy boundaries with you. That's not your fault, and the good news is that you can teach yourself some better ones from now on :)

OP, the dynamic in your family is clearly that you must go along with whatever it is your mother wants and that she is in denial about the reality of your childhood. If your insinuations regarding your older sibling are as others have suggested then it's also possible your younger sibling has been deeply affected by that, leading to some of their behaviours.

I suspect that before having a child you saw this as normal but now are questioning it. And it's a huge thing to question. Personally, I'd be seeking counselling for yourself urgently. You need to unpick what's happening and seek help to put tools in place to cope better in the future because the way things stand is very damaging for you, your relationship and potentially your child.

I’m sorry this might sound mean, but big girl pants on. You need to get clear about what your, and your husbands boundaries are NOW before the baby comes, or you run the risk of losing your husband and harming your child. Stop this ridiculous behaviour immiediately.

1. Speak to husband and work out boundaries. Agree on strategies when they say/ do something mean. Example “well I’m the only grandma” give her one warning that whats she’s saying is hurtful and if she carries on you put the phone down or leave then actually follow through.
2. Stop answering the phone. If she keeps calling then message I’m busy/ napping/ cooking/ resting whatever you want to say. When she escalates tell her that she cannot keep ringing you. If she turns up don’t answer the door. Jesus Christ tell me she doesn’t have a key. If she does you get it back or change the locks.
3. Any mention of sibling one. Ignore her. When she pushes laugh and say why would older sibling have a relationship with my child and insert reason (they don’t have a relationship with me/ they are vile etc sounds like there is a big reason you can have a hard no)
4. Younger sibling - NO. I will not have my child around drug users and repeat. Parents will eye roll, tell you that you are being ridiculous etc etc just straight face and repeat. Ignore. They are the batshit ones.
5. Stop telling them stuff! You are letting them in with every detail! When they tell you off or say no just laugh and tell them to stop being so ridiculous your an adult!

It’s going to be hard but it sounds like you’ve had it hard yourself, do you want to put your own child through that?

I think one or two posts here, while meant kindly, don't appreciate the damage a toxic family can do.

This all sounds incredibly hard on you and its great you recognise this as harmful around your baby. Also great that your husband and his family are not toxic/drawn into the toxicity. You've a lot of strengths and positives to get you through this.

If you can today, engage with your perinatal health team to start talking therapy. You may find that childhood issues come up once you have your own child, so this will help you not only prepare but to start offloading some of your current fears and feelings, as well as supporting you to make healthy boundaries.

I wouldn't imagine you'll soften towards your mum after having the baby, I would say your protective instinct will come to the fore. Her house is not a safe environment for a baby, nor is she in general.

You absolutely do not need to do anything harsh or sudden or that you feel hurtful towards your family. You simply need to to kind - to yourself. And the kindest thing you can do for them is to break the contract/enmeshment with them. Leave the FOG. The above books, as well, as Codependent No More, will support you in this, as well as therapy. This is important work for you, and as prep for you becoming a parent. You'll be amazed at your life after, but it is hard at first.

Going very low contact with strict boundaries, not giving in to tantrums etc., is an act of love, stopping enabling their toxic behaviour and putting the focus very firmly on living your own life. The more focus you put on you being healthy, mentally, you'll find you're so much more able to be a better friend/daughter/everything! But it will likely take a decent break.

You can do this. I did this. Hardest to realise was that my mum's behaviour was not, in fact, love. I went low contact, worked on myself, and now I'm close with my family in a healthy way.

It's a really tough situation OP because you're talking about trying to change relationships that have been tricky for years. There's no quick fix to that. I think you need to work out what a good/acceptable relationship looks like for you, not based on feeling guilty or expectations from family, but on what you want and need. Then start adjusting your behaviour to make it happen. That will probably mean

• not answering the phone but having a set time you call your mum, for example
• being bright and breezy and brief when you speak and not engaging in sharing personal information
• not reacting to gifts you don't want and not letting them be used to buy time with your baby. Even if you accept the gift and dump it at the charity shop, you are not beholden to the giver in any way
• ignoring your mother when she starts on at about siblings all needing to get along. A calm, firm, no each and every time.

Hope it works out.

Ah PotentialScrooge has already put it very well

You have had some excellent advice already. You don't state what sex your siblings are, but reading between the lines I'm guessing that they are male and you are the only female, and this is why she treats you differently. Although, I might be completely wrong here.

This really annoys and upsets DH as she’s erasing his family

This will only happen if you allow it to.

As others have pointed out reducing contact is very freeing. You might like to repeat to yourself "I will not be guilt tripped into doing anything I feel uncomfortable about".

The other thing that stands out to me is the fact that your husband is a victim here. There are countless threads on MN from women whose MILs behave like your mother, and the overwhelming response is "you have a DH problem".

Please don't let your mother come between you and your husband, or he will be the one posting on here to be told "you have a DW problem"

It sounds as if you were the compliant child and expected to be the peacemaker. As a result, you’ve possibly become the scapegoat.

When you have a child, in a way, it is in a way a perfect time to unpick your childhood and family dynamics. You are able to see things so very differently because you are suddenly a parent.

You have been given some great advice on how to establish boundaries. Therapy will help you stand firm. For the moment, it is all about setting limits, boundaries and not telling your parents anything you don’t want your siblings to know.

Just because your parents deny current drug taking, you do not have to comply. You are allowed to say no. No contact with the baby. As for the phone calls, you are also allowed to ignore the phone until you actually want to speak to your mother. Or alternatively set limits. So what your limit is. Twice a week? Less? Once a month even? The latter possibly not realistic atm but something to consider in future.

It really is time to stop bowing to your parents and start giving yourself the right to your own lives without constant intrusion. You are an adult, not a child. The advice to move away is good. Moving just far enough for a day trip to be possible would allow space but no overnights necessary. You could move to a different area or country. But that would result in your parents coming to stay and possibly even expecting your sibling(s) to tag along or them expecting you to stay with them. So if you were ever to do this, only do it when you feel strong enough.

This is tough but you need to go totally no contact - you can do it gradually - you have had great suggestions.
Your family are toxic - you are the healthiest despite the abuse you suffered.
Have a look at Adult children of Alcoholics AND dysfunctional families.
You come from a dysfunctional family.
They are not your problem.
Your mother is sick in her own way.
Your siblings are too and your father is an enabler.
They like drama - there lives are dull without it.
Really really start to focus on yourself. What do YOU want.
Your mother is harassing you on the phone - it’s not acceptable.
Give her a time to call - only speak to her then - if YOU want too.
You probably carry some Fear obligation and guilt - that’s to be expected - it takes time to separate from these people.
Do not let them infect your relationship with your partner and child.
This is your life - they ruined your childhood - don’t let them ruin this.
I’ve done a lot of work with Adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families. I removed 3 toxic people from my life and made other progress - life feels good for me today. It works - it will also help you not pass on the traits we carry as a result of growing up in an abusive family onto your child.
Keep posting for support.💐💐

I think you have to put boundaries in place. If you still want some sort of relationship with them. Start being assertive and firm, you don’t have to be unpleasant to do this. It’s just a case of telling them what you want, and keep reaffirming when they challenge. It will be hard because your dm is used to having control over you, so will persist, but you have to start putting boundaries in place now. I wouldn’t have your eldest sibling around - they bring nothing to your life and make you feel uncomfortable and miserable. Visit them instead - brief trips maybe once a month, so that you are in control of how long you spend with them. Obviously once lockdown has ended. I’m all for compromise with family generally, but in your case you need to put yourself and your DH/baby first.

I didn’t acknowledge Christmas cards and nor did people we sent them to really...
I think your relationship with all of them is really not great so you pick apart everything they do.
I know because I’ve been there and done that.
Get yourself some therapy and distance yourself whilst doing so and focus on your family of you, your husband and baby.
Let your mum cry and be nasty she only does it because she knows it gets a response!

Not in the U.K.? I mean, I’d be using covid to refuse to see them at all for as long as you like. You need to stop responding to her tantrums/demands. I get that it’s not that easy, but for your own mh, you really need to withdraw as much as you can.

I haven’t had time to read all the replies but it sounds like you are getting some good advice. I would just say think of your DH in this - my mum is very full-on (although well-meaning) and has all sorts of issues, her and my exDH never got on and I was constantly stuck in the middle. It was a major factor in the breakdown of our marriage.

I understand not being able to stand up to your mum - I had counselling for exactly that reason after my DD’s birth then buried it for years and never addressed it. 20 years later I’m finally facing up to it but for you it would be so much better if you can deal with it now.

For me, one of the great joys of adulthood was having the freedom to make my own choices. One of which was about who I choose to spend time with, deciding whose opinions I valued and therefore whose help I would seek and that 'family' means nothing if you can't be a decent person that I choose to spend time with.

That said, stubborn, headstrong, etc. are all words that have been used to describe me. I'd argue that much of that was self-preservation in my formative years.

I'd chat with DH, decide what we, as a family unit, agree how we want to tackle these relationships and then tell DM. I would be firm in my tone and choice of words making sure the focus is about me and my family and what I am doing for them. I'd have DH alongside for the discussion so that she can see (and understand) it's a united front.

OP why are you hedging so much in your post? Just to be clear:

Your older brother is a paedophile or has committed some sort of child abuse crime, correct? Don't know why you don't just say so instead of hinting heavily. Is it because then it opens up the question of why no-one in your family has taken any action to see him prosecuted?

I have a friend with a family a bit like yours (except they are four daughters so no-one gets off the hook from the insane mother's relentless, narcissistic ways, and the father's total uselessness and detachment). One sister is a drug addict with a personality disorder, lies, steals etc. She lives with the parents and it is totally dysfunctional.

My friend is the family 'victim'. She is expected to sort out all the drama the others create, is constantly on the phone to her mother or to one sister or another about drama with the others. She is taken totally for granted and treated incredibly abusively by the whole family, as everyone takes the cue from the toxic mother. She is totally unable to detach herself from this role as it's all she knows.

I hate watching it, but you can't make someone drop their family any more than you can convince someone to leave an abusive partner - all you can do is support them as best you can until they are ready to make that decision themselves.

As her friend, all I can do is hope when her mother dies it will break the toxic dynamic and she'll finally be able to breathe a bit (although the emotional enmeshment is such I know it will devastate her when her mother does die).

You are quite right to want to keep your baby well away from this gang of nutters. You should do itfor yourself as well, and your partner.

Agree above: look at moving physically away from your toxic family. Set yourself a limit that you will only speak to your mother one hour per day - tell her you will read/listen to all her messages in that hour, then call her to chat for however much time you have left after that in the hour, because you are very busy with work/pregnancy/new baby. Stick to this for a while so she gets used to the fact you are not there for her on tap. Then reduce it. Every other day, then every week.

And boundaries, boundaries, boundaries! Don't tell her anything you're planning to do until it's done - be that a c-section, dying your hair, weaning, booking a holiday, choosing a nursery, anything - and then any post-hoc objections she makes just stonewall with meaningless, emotionless phrases: "I'm sorry you feel that way about it"; "thank you for your advice"; "this is what's right for me/us". Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. If she cries, again "I'm sorry that you are upset" (NEVER "I'm sorry I've upset you", you haven't, it's not your responsibility!). If she's mean and nasty, "I don't think this conversation is going well, let's speak about it when you've calmed down" and END THE CONVERSATION, hang up or walk out. REFUSE to be subjected to her nonsense. Her wanting a close relationship with you is not your issue; if she wants it, she needs to earn it.

She may well then try to set your siblings on you, or your dad; luckily it sounds like you have no relationship to speak of with any of them so just straight up ignore them.

Seriously, this relationship is abusive. If she has access to your child (god forbid unsupervised access) she will re-enact this dynamic with them. Do the right thing and protect them.

I think you need to seriously consider putting some miles between you. I have a very difficult sibling, and the 350 miles between us is a godsend. It isn't why I moved, but it has definitely been a help, as she can't just turn up on my door step. Is this something you could do?

Having a baby can really bring out all the bad stuff from the past as you reflect on your own childhood.

Like many others here I strongly suggest you pay for an online counsellor and NOW. You will need support to set boundaries and reduce the stress on you at this time.

It costs money but sounds vital for you. It will be someone 100% in your corner.

Then hopefully you will be able to focus on enjoying your baby and NEW family.

Your in-laws sound nice and chilled. If I was you the first thing I would be doing is making it clear to your mum that you have to accommodate both families and GPs. What I mean by this is to make sure your mum doesn't think she can monopolise all your time with your baby. Even if you don't hang with in-laws all the time, let her think you are.

It sounds like your siblings have issues and/or a special need. That is hard, but at the end of the day I wouldn't let them look after your baby and I would keep them at arms length. You have to manage their interaction with them.

Your priority now is your baby. That is, keeping Covid away from the baby and keeping it away from you, who will be recovering from a C Section, which is hard with a new born. I've done it. Your baby will have zero immune system for a good while and you need to keep people away. There is NO WAY I would let anyone near my newborn during this time and I am pretty chilled about Covid.

You need to summon the strength to be firm, with the support of your DH.

You do not need to answer every phonecall or knock at the door. If she has a key, get it back or change the locks in case she's made a copy.

The behaviour will worsen for a while as she tries to bully you into submission.

This is your baby, not your mother's.

I'd be moving nearer the sensible in-laws, if it were me.

You’re letting these abusive and toxic family members into your life far too much. To be healthy you really need to break free and form your own healthier family unit with your dh and new baby. I’d really advise going low contact - even cut down your mum’s calls to 2 calls a week at the most, and then maybe less after that. Even once a day is far too much. It sounds like you’re really tangled up with your mum and it’s not good for you. Newborns (except for the chilled out ones maybe) are totally full on, you don’t need multiple calls from your mum while you’re trying to focus on your baby and recover from the birth. With your life entering a new stage and you starting a family of your own it’s a good opportunity to take stock and decide what kind of life you want to have. You’re not powerless, you can use boundaries and make decisions about what you will and will not accept / allow in.