Is this a good enough reason?

[flowers08]

I have not long been seeing someone and one of our mutual friends recently let slip that he has a 4 year old daughter who he has no contact with. She lives in the same town as we do.

When I asked him, he said daughter was a result of a one night stand. He said when the mother told him, he went off and thought about it for a bit but ultimately decided that he was not going to have anything to do with the child. He said it is not his proudest moment but he stands by his decision. Maybe not my business but I was thinking me and him had a future so I did ask, why? What made you make that decision? And he said, he was having a good time being fairly young (early 20s) and he didn't know the mum that well and didn't want to be with her. The thing is, he has expressed to me that he would like children in the future, marriage etc. (before I found out about his daughter). This has obviously made me question his morals and I can't get it out of my head that this young girl is growing up without her father and she lives in the same town. It has made me look at him in a totally different way now.

Is the fact she was the result of a one night stand honestly a good enough reason? It doesn't feel like it to me - I think if you make your bed you lie in it. I haven't said this to him directly (yet) but as an adult surely you know this could be the outcome? And how could I ever think about having children with someone who can so easily blank out the fact they already have an existing child?

[dontdisturbmenow]

whether you agree or not, I cant help the fact that it has put me off, like I can imagine most would be
And that's your perogative, nothing wrong with that, I might I felt the same.

My issue was in relation to how he, and all men, is judged for not using contraception when women never are judged in the same manner.

[dontdisturbmenow]

Don't you think she is going to know that she has a father somewhere out there, who can't be bothered to acknowledge her existence?
This was the situation with my best friend. She never blamed her genitor. She is of course glad that her mum had her but ukti.ayrly, she respects it was her mum's choice. Her mum did have an abortion later so it's not that she was against them, she was just keen in becoming a mum and glad she fell pregnant and not bothered whether father would be around.

She did meet him in her 20s and they developed a good relationship. He felt very guilty then but said that at the time, he didn't have the maturity to deal with the situation. She understood.

[flowers08]

@dontdisturbmenow oh I do judge women who have repeated abortions, or on the other hand, have multiple children if they're not looking after the ones they already have properly. like I said, that might be wrong too, but in general I think if you're having sex you should probably take precautions if you are that against having a child.

obviously, this isnt including people who were raped or contraceptive failures etc, although I think I was told by a doctor when I was on a medicine for my skin that it was important I used two contraceptions because I absolutely could not afford to become pregnant as it caused birth defects.

its definitely an important conversation - regardless of what gender you are.

[shindiggery]

That's horrific. He doesn't know if his little girl is safe, warm, fed, abused, terrified, hungry-anything. This is a child. How would he feel if he heard she's been starving and neglected? It's on him.

I wouldn't want this person in my life.

[flowers08]

and the reason I mentioned what that doctor said is because if you really dont want a child it's worth covering yourself with more than one way.

[shindiggery]

I also don't think abortion was ever meant to let men off the hook regarding their own children as if women are just casually in a children cafe ordering children and if a child comes, it's entirely because it was on the menu and she ordered it. What rot.

[Mumski45]

@RunningFromInsanity

This is difficult for me because I don’t want to be a mum. Not at all. If I got pregnant I would (and have) terminate without hesitation.

If that decision was taken out of my hands? If I was forced to have a child? I would resent being forced to interact with it.
I think men are in the same position.

This is what I was thinking, its not quite so black and white as many people have said.
There is an argument to say that there are consequences to having unprotected sex and if you aren't prepared to accept them you shouldn't be doing it.
However when his happens women have an opportunity on the basis of their sex to decide wether or not to have and support that child. Men don't have this opportunity and I can understand why someone of a young age would want to make this decision.

There are many women out there who have made this decision and had an abortion, we don't judge them in the same way.

[flowers08]

@Mumski45 but surely that is because the risk of giving birth/carrying a child and all that could come with it/the risks of an abortion are all on the mum? and in this situation neither of them thought to use protection but the mum has stood by her child, whereas he hasnt. I just dont feel like I can forget that.

[Mumski45]

@flowers08 yes but the difference is that the Mum had a choice and made the choice by not having an abortion. The Dad was not able to make that same choice.

[SnoozyLou]

• This is what I was thinking, its not quite so black and white as many people have said.
  There is an argument to say that there are consequences to having unprotected sex and if you aren't prepared to accept them you shouldn't be doing it.
  However when his happens women have an opportunity on the basis of their sex to decide wether or not to have and support that child. Men don't have this opportunity and I can understand why someone of a young age would want to make this decision.*
  
  Even more of an incentive to wear a condom I would say. A lot of men continue to think it's the woman's problem so contraception is her responsibility, then just walk away and apparently do just get off Scot free.
  
  Until something like this happens and it bites them on the arse. Just desserts I would call it. To know you have a daughter wandering around and not give a toss about her welfare? It's the mark of true pondslime.

[flowers08]

@Mumski45 I mean, I think snoozy summed it up really. all the risk is on the mum either way you look at it - she risks her health, mentally and physically, regardless of what choice she makes. I have had an abortion myself at 16 - the lad didnt give a shit and it doesnt haunt him the way it does me even to this day. I also have a child, and its exhausting as many obviously know. the difference is, like snoozy pointed out, if a man doesnt care he can just walk away. and not be damaged really atall.

and that is my problem - he is emotionless about it and believes he has done the right thing and that he done nothing wrong. of course he did wrong.

[PlanetMJ]

^^just to clear a few things up, I also spoke to mutual friend today. they dont know loads but the reason they are aware of the situation is because the mum is somehow related to them, I think through marriage they were saying. apparently, quite a few people do know though because the mum didnt keep quiet and I can't say I blame her.**

I will probably be flamed for this but a part of me would want it to get back to this little girls mother, through the mutual friend, that this dickhead has been judged and dumped as a consequence of what he has done. She probably looks at her lovely little girl and feels complete rage that her father could just reject her as though she is nothing, whilst most of society, and seemingly some of the people on this thread see nothing wrong with his behaviour.

Might give her a small sense of satisfaction.

[berrylands]

@Bluesrunthegame
"Someone upthread made the point about being forced to have a child. Women have a choice when they find they are pregnant, to continue with the pregnancy or not, to give the baby up for adoption or not. Men do not have that choice."

Sex implies taking a risk. The risk is taken by both sides. If there is a pregnancy, the decision of aborting is for the woman to make, because it is her body. This might be unfair, but nature is unfair by making women the ones getting pregnant. Discuss your grievances with Nature.
Once a child is born however, is not about the rights of the parents but about the rights of the child.
If men cannot cope with the consequences of having sex, they should abstain.

[shindiggery]

But women don't necessarily have a choice to abort. Some know they'd be so upset by it that it would be a life sentence. That's not a choice. They don't have a choice to just walk away necessarily and men don't either.

[Ianar]

I'm a childless man, but cannot comprehend a person not wanting a relationship of any sort with their child. How can you just get on with your life not knowing? There is something badly awry with these peoples wiring.

I would not want anything to do with them.

[GeordieGreigsButtButtZoom]

It is unfair that women get the option to abort and men don't. It's also unfair that women are the ones who risk permanent damage from pregnancy and childbirth, and the ones with a window on their fertility. We are expected to accept that because it's nobody's fault and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

[Sacredspace]

I would be very wary of someone that can be so cold and unfeeling as to walk away from his responsibilities to his child. He could do the same to you and any future children you have together. Someone wiser than me once said ‘the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour’.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

He was just such a charmer and a good talker

They very often are, OP - even the "wanting children in future" can be just a line, designed to paint them as good dad material and increase their chances, though it doesn't mean they'll stick around for them

You've made the right decision, but if he's so cavalier about contraception have you considered this child may not be the only one he's fathered? Types like this sometimes see children as just an unfortunate side product of a rackety sex life and something for the women to deal with, so just be glad that won't be you

[ALittleBitConfused1]

I dont think you can judge why he made that decision, ie is it a good enough reason. It was his reason and not yours. I also think, and I say this as someone who tried to co parent with an absolute shitty other party, that sometimes recognising he wasn't going to be a good parent and walking away, rather than being a shit one but sticking around for the glory and good bits is actually the best thing to do.
But, on the same note it would be my decision not to want to be in a relationship with such person. Having no contact with children is a deal breaker for me and I wouldn't want ant part in it.

[StarsonaString]

I am also one that never wants children and take great care to avoid pregnancy. I could accept a man having nothing to do with a child if the following conditions were met: 1) There was at least an attempt to avoid pregnancy even if it failed. 2) He wanted to remain childfree forever. 3) He contributed financially. 4) He wasn't horrible to or about the mother.

OPs ex has failed 1 and 2, likely 3 and possibly 4. Right decision to get rid.

[shindiggery]

StarsonaString

Why does any adult's preference come above ensuring the needs of a child are met?

[shindiggery]

In the context that the adult is the parent of the child.

[frozendaisy]

I am going to throw an iron in the fire here
He was early 20s, made it quite clear to the one night stand that he wasn't ready to be a dad.
One of my best friends (male) this happened to him. His daughter is now 20+ brought up by mum overseas. He was honest. They are all fine.

It doesn't mean he won't be a great dad and devoted partner when he is older.

When I was early 20s there is no way I would have been a mum through choice. Or not my choice.

Just as how my H when I did pregnancy test for our eldest (early 30s but bit earlier than we envisioned) was really excited but had to check "you do want this" of course I did he was relieved, happy, ready. He had an early GF who got pregnant and terminated when he was in his early 20s. He respected her decision but had no say either way.

I don't see a problem. He hasn't lied to anyone.

Yes he should contribute.

Yes they messed up.

Yes they were unlucky.

But do I think he won't be ready, happy later on, no I don't.

[StarsonaString]

@shindiggery You can ensure a child's needs are met without having contact with them. That would be paying maintenance, signing papers if stepparent wanted to adopt the child, not being obstructive to wider family relationships and getting professionals involved if the resident parent was unfit.

Obviously the ideal for any child is two parents living together happily and a close, supportive extended family but that is not necessary for happiness. Better an absent parent than one who doesn't give a shit in person.

[Humpty11]

I think it’s difficult because it’s better that he’s not messed her around by being there and then disappearing and reappearing again.
We’ve all done things that we regret but is this too big for you to get past?
There might be more to it that he hasn’t told you. He could have wanted to have contact with her but the mother has not allowed it and this is his way of not seeming weak and emotional by taking this approach to the situation instead.