Is this a good enough reason?

[flowers08]

I have not long been seeing someone and one of our mutual friends recently let slip that he has a 4 year old daughter who he has no contact with. She lives in the same town as we do.

When I asked him, he said daughter was a result of a one night stand. He said when the mother told him, he went off and thought about it for a bit but ultimately decided that he was not going to have anything to do with the child. He said it is not his proudest moment but he stands by his decision. Maybe not my business but I was thinking me and him had a future so I did ask, why? What made you make that decision? And he said, he was having a good time being fairly young (early 20s) and he didn't know the mum that well and didn't want to be with her. The thing is, he has expressed to me that he would like children in the future, marriage etc. (before I found out about his daughter). This has obviously made me question his morals and I can't get it out of my head that this young girl is growing up without her father and she lives in the same town. It has made me look at him in a totally different way now.

Is the fact she was the result of a one night stand honestly a good enough reason? It doesn't feel like it to me - I think if you make your bed you lie in it. I haven't said this to him directly (yet) but as an adult surely you know this could be the outcome? And how could I ever think about having children with someone who can so easily blank out the fact they already have an existing child?

[Somethingmavelous]

I know this thread has moved on a lot, but I just wanted to add to the other posters, it would be a no from me - especially if he wanted other children. No No No.

[shindiggery]

There are loads of threads on here from mothers whose body, life, finances, relationships and mental health have been wrecked by children.

Are you really drawing a parallel between the hardship suffered by women denied access to abortion and the suffering of men having to be involved with their child from an unplanned pregnancy. That's...a stretch.

[shindiggery]

Its morally no differerent to relinquishing for adoption.

I know you don't want children but can you consider a child's needs for a moment at least? Relinquishing a child for adoption means willing, strong and capable parent/s formally taking on your responsibilities. I'n this scenario the child has everything they need - a capable person is taking on all eventualities. If you're not relinquishing a child to adoption you are not handing over responsibilities to anyone so there is no guarantee someone is discharging those because no one has taken it on. If male, you cannot assume an equivalence between an approved adoptive parent and a woman who finds herself with an unplanned pregnancy but isn't in a position to terminate, for whatever reason. I'm sorry it would be some people's idea of hell to be a parent but I have seen what can happen to children when parents aren't behaving like parents because they can't be bothered and that is hell. There are plenty of people who didn't ask to become parents but stepped up because it was the decent thing to do. It's perfectly doable.

[billy1966]

OP,

You are a great young woman with boundaries.

Never feel the need to explain your boundaries.

They are yours.

Hold them close.

Choosing the man to father your children is HUGE

When you strike gold in this decision, you will spend the next 20 years congratulating yourself.

Your boundaries make you closer to doing that.

I love my husband dearly.
He's a really lovely man.
He irritates the shit out of me at times🤷🏻‍♀️.

I have privately congratulated myself so often over the past 25 years on choosing him to have children with.
He's just such a fantastic father....particularly towards our daughters.

Because of MN I have instigated conversations (out of plain fear) about how important character/respect/jealousy etc. are.

Never apologise for having boundaries.

OP, as you were..

[StarsonaString]

Oh I agree entirely OP and in my first reply to you, I said as much. His scenario is down to twattishness rather than a considered stance.

[flowers08]

@StarsonaString I know your comment was probably not aimed at just me but there is a key difference. You have actively done something so to try and prevent this being the outcome. The person I was seeing did not do that. He is not a young person who has no idea how babies are made, he does and did. It may not be an issue to you but it certainly is to me. It is not a contraceptive failure if you did not use any in the first place, that is a reckless decision. I don't think it is defendable in that circumstance. you are also certain that you do not want children - this man was full of "oh I would love to have children and marriage at some point in the not to far future" "I'm such a good guy" " what you see is what you get with me"

The scenario you are describing and his words and actions are NOT the same.

[StarsonaString]

Its morally no differerent to relinquishing for adoption. If a woman had a contraceptive failure and found out too late to abort, assuming she doesn't want to be a parent, will have to offer the child to the father and if that isn't viable, give the baby up for adoption. Is that also unethical?

This would be my nightmare scenario and I take regular tests to avoid it along with LARC. Being an unwilling parent isn't just 'not living your best life' it would be fucking awful. There are loads of threads on here from mothers whose body, life, finances, relationships and mental health have been wrecked by children. No one should be forced into that, for the childs sake as much as the parents.

[shindiggery]

I still maintain that a person (male or female) who is forced to have a child following contraceptive failure does nothing wrong by choosing no contact from birth.

Does nothing wrong...a very moral word. Most people agree that children being safe and cared for is the touchstone of morality.If you have sex and a child appears nine months later, this is always a possibility in people of child bearing age. Everyone knows that so there's no point pretending to be surprised. And everyone knows men don't get to choose when women have terminations, or if they relinquish their baby for adoption. Men know the score-their chance to avoid this scenario is through abstinence or vasectomy, otherwise they are all-in morally and that's the risk they're happy to take, usually. Subsequently, parenting a child may not be your best life but that's the chance you take. If you're able to consider your own needs, you can consider your child's needs. You do indeed do something wrong if a child suffers as a result of your choices.

[flowers08]

@Viviennemary so I'm not sure if you are trying to be goady or outrageous or what but, my post and how I feel is not really looking at it from a legal perspective..

I'm looking at a moral perspective and how it had made me now look at him.

And I just want to point out again that, apparently it was unprotected. thanks for all views - he will likely find someone in the future who thinks it is okay but it wont be me.

[StarsonaString]

Lol like its that easy to get a vasectomy. Some of my male childfree friends have been trying since their early 20s with no joy. I would like to be sterilised but the NHS guidance in my area won't allow it since I tolerate the implant well. Even if they did do it, they only use fallopian tube implants which have a 1 in 200 failure rate and potential complications rather than removing my fallopian tubes which would be better.

I still maintain that a person (male or female) who is forced to have a child following contraceptive failure does nothing wrong by choosing no contact from birth. Obviously this is different to a parent who builds a relationship with a child then abandons it later.

[Viviennemary]

I think it's a good enough reason. Legally he has to pay maintenance but there is no legal obligation to be part of a child's life.

[billy1966]

OP,

You sound like a truly wonderful young woman.
With a great head on her shoulders.
Great judgement.
Great boundaries.
Be very proud of who you are.

Well done for kicking him to touch.

He is not REMOTELY good enough for you.

He's not good enough for you to plan a future with.

You have a great gut that is guiding you.
Continue to listen to it.

[shindiggery]

You can ensure a child's needs are met without having contact with them.

No, you can't. Not unless you've relinquished your child for adoption and know they're with approved adoptive parents.

That would be paying maintenance, signing papers if stepparent wanted to adopt the child, not being obstructive to wider family relationships and getting professionals involved if the resident parent was unfit.

Er, this is a child, not a race horse. You can't farm a child out to someone, call a 'professional' if the child is being neglected, throw money and give yourself a big pat on the pat for not going out of your way to obstruct wider family relationships (WTF?).

This is a child. It's the parents job to use the items that the money buys - the money buys shampoo? It's the parent's job to wash their hair. One parent is not feeding/clothing/hugging/supporting? It's the parent's job to do all those things.

Better an absent parent than one who doesn't give a shit in person.

It's your job to give a shit. If you're not willing to do all this, knowing you cannot and should not force someone else to have a abortion, get a vasectomy. Otherwise, you signed up.

Shame on that parent who calls social services and congratulates themselves for ensuring a child's needs are met. Like there's a magic parent tree hiding somewhere.

[nevernotstruggling]

I couldn't get past this..

I thought I could with exp who does nit see one of his dc but it was a red flag I didn't heed.

[flowers08]

unfortunately, it is too big to get past for me. I dont think I could ever trust him to not do it to me if I ever went on to have children with him. I also, logically or not, feel really sorry for the little girl because she will surely have questions one day. I have seen it with two women I am close to now (best friend and cousin) who have an absent father and it really affected them in their teen years.

[Humpty11]

I think it’s difficult because it’s better that he’s not messed her around by being there and then disappearing and reappearing again.
We’ve all done things that we regret but is this too big for you to get past?
There might be more to it that he hasn’t told you. He could have wanted to have contact with her but the mother has not allowed it and this is his way of not seeming weak and emotional by taking this approach to the situation instead.

[StarsonaString]

@shindiggery You can ensure a child's needs are met without having contact with them. That would be paying maintenance, signing papers if stepparent wanted to adopt the child, not being obstructive to wider family relationships and getting professionals involved if the resident parent was unfit.

Obviously the ideal for any child is two parents living together happily and a close, supportive extended family but that is not necessary for happiness. Better an absent parent than one who doesn't give a shit in person.

[frozendaisy]

I am going to throw an iron in the fire here
He was early 20s, made it quite clear to the one night stand that he wasn't ready to be a dad.
One of my best friends (male) this happened to him. His daughter is now 20+ brought up by mum overseas. He was honest. They are all fine.

It doesn't mean he won't be a great dad and devoted partner when he is older.

When I was early 20s there is no way I would have been a mum through choice. Or not my choice.

Just as how my H when I did pregnancy test for our eldest (early 30s but bit earlier than we envisioned) was really excited but had to check "you do want this" of course I did he was relieved, happy, ready. He had an early GF who got pregnant and terminated when he was in his early 20s. He respected her decision but had no say either way.

I don't see a problem. He hasn't lied to anyone.

Yes he should contribute.

Yes they messed up.

Yes they were unlucky.

But do I think he won't be ready, happy later on, no I don't.

[shindiggery]

In the context that the adult is the parent of the child.

[shindiggery]

StarsonaString

Why does any adult's preference come above ensuring the needs of a child are met?

[StarsonaString]

I am also one that never wants children and take great care to avoid pregnancy. I could accept a man having nothing to do with a child if the following conditions were met: 1) There was at least an attempt to avoid pregnancy even if it failed. 2) He wanted to remain childfree forever. 3) He contributed financially. 4) He wasn't horrible to or about the mother.

OPs ex has failed 1 and 2, likely 3 and possibly 4. Right decision to get rid.

[ALittleBitConfused1]

I dont think you can judge why he made that decision, ie is it a good enough reason. It was his reason and not yours. I also think, and I say this as someone who tried to co parent with an absolute shitty other party, that sometimes recognising he wasn't going to be a good parent and walking away, rather than being a shit one but sticking around for the glory and good bits is actually the best thing to do.
But, on the same note it would be my decision not to want to be in a relationship with such person. Having no contact with children is a deal breaker for me and I wouldn't want ant part in it.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

He was just such a charmer and a good talker

They very often are, OP - even the "wanting children in future" can be just a line, designed to paint them as good dad material and increase their chances, though it doesn't mean they'll stick around for them

You've made the right decision, but if he's so cavalier about contraception have you considered this child may not be the only one he's fathered? Types like this sometimes see children as just an unfortunate side product of a rackety sex life and something for the women to deal with, so just be glad that won't be you

[Sacredspace]

I would be very wary of someone that can be so cold and unfeeling as to walk away from his responsibilities to his child. He could do the same to you and any future children you have together. Someone wiser than me once said ‘the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour’.

[GeordieGreigsButtButtZoom]

It is unfair that women get the option to abort and men don't. It's also unfair that women are the ones who risk permanent damage from pregnancy and childbirth, and the ones with a window on their fertility. We are expected to accept that because it's nobody's fault and there's nothing anyone can do about it.