Please help me get dh to see how he deals with stress is wrong

[Glasslamppicture]

Long story which I’ll try to summarise. Dh has a chronic health condition which causes him pain in his feet. I understand that this is hard to live with and causes him stress.
He is also a negative kind of person with a bit of a temper, he was never taught by his parents how to deal with emotions properly, in fact his temperament of being quick to anger, he has got from his parents, no doubt about that. It’s hard to unlearn this kind of thing.
Lockdown is stressful, his work is stressful, homeschooling our kids is stressful, his feet are painful which is stressful. He doesn’t deal with stress well and he over reacts to things, often ending up with him calling me a name or getting angry with me, sometimes in front of our kids. He always realises he is wrong and promises to change but never does, always talks about how it’s the stress etc. Yes well I’m stressed too but I manage to not take it out on him. He’s a loving father, a good provider, not selfish, loves me, would never cheat. Umpteen great things about him. But, I’m realising that my life with him will always be like this, he’ll be giving excuses about being stressed when we’re 70 and he’s got in a strop with me over nothing. I don’t want to end this marriage at all but at the same time I’m scared for the future and that I’ll be old and regretful and resentful. If only he could truly realise that stress is not an excuse and that he needs to find ways to deal with the stress like a sensible and reasonable adult. How do I make him really really see this?

It's really sad to be honest. He's always been 'stressed' and quick to anger. Now they can't do anything like gardening or DIY together because he's just awful if the slightest thing goes wrong. I feel so sorry for her.

You're deluding yourself if you think your children aren't affected by this, believing divorce is a worse option. I lived with a verbally abusive parent to my mother. Myself and my siblings were negatively affected. Divorce would've at least been a reprieve for a short period of time. My mother lacked the courage to do what was right for her children and I've never forgiven her. Don't put your children in that position

Does he snap and shout at his work colleagues because he's in pain? No? So he can control his out bursts then.

I have similar problems with my DH, although for different reasons. Early last year it got too much, after yet another outburst which upset the DC, and I finally lost it and told him if he didn't get some anger management therapy, immediately, then I would be asking him to move out.

He thought I'd get over it, as so many times before, but when he clearly hadn't done anything a couple of weeks later, and got needlessly aggressive with one of us again, I told him that he could either ring someone that day, or he could find himself somewhere else to stay.

He was really shocked and he did ring the GP, and after me hassling him to follow it up, he eventually got some one-to-one sessions (over the phone of course, due to COVID). They helped a lot, nothing is cured but he loses his temper or is generally grumpy much less often these days. It's not perfect, some days he is still nasty, but I now take a zero tolerance approach to it (I have got braver and don't do the eggshells thing) and it seems to bring him up short.

I don't like the effect of his behaviour on me or the DC, and the jury is still out as to whether we will always be together, but for now it is much better than it was.

@EKGEMS

You're deluding yourself if you think your children aren't affected by this, believing divorce is a worse option. I lived with a verbally abusive parent to my mother. Myself and my siblings were negatively affected. Divorce would've at least been a reprieve for a short period of time. My mother lacked the courage to do what was right for her children and I've never forgiven her. Don't put your children in that position

Oh bloody hell that’s made me cry. Thanks for saying it though. It feels so strange to see people using the words “verbally abusive” for my marriage. I’ve deliberately not gone into a huge amount of detail about the kind of things that have been said as I didn’t want to steer the thread or sound dramatic but the fact that this term has been used without me giving any specific examples is quite telling

His behaviour is fairly textbook for an abuser, that's why people can identify it so easily.

And they are right about the damage it is causing your children to be forced to live in this environment.

Aside from the psychological damage, it causes physical damage to spend your childhood in a state of chronic fear and stress because you're walking on eggshells around an abusive parent - which means chronic illness often awaits in adulthood.

The Freedom Programme addresses the damage this abuse causes children as well as the importance of explaining to the children that the abuse is wrong instead of making excuses and minimising it. I would recommend you do the course.

Your children don't have the luxury of choosing to throw their life away and stay in an abusive home. It's your job to step up and protect them by leaving him.

I think I am a bit like your DH. Not as extreme perhaps but I am grumpy and stressed, respond emotionally to things and can feel very out of control at times. Small things can set me off and red mist descends. It's horrible and I hate myself at times. I don't call anyone names (to their face) but have very damaging thoughts and can break things or harm myself when I am feeling out of control. It comes from severe lack of self-esteem and perfectionist tendancies, and never having been taught how to deal with emotions really. Things become unbearable inside my head so that a very small external trigger pushes me further than I can cope with in a sensible way. My DH is incredibly calm, he's like a slow steady ship that I cling to at times. He is unfazed by life and it's challenges.

I am very aware of my behaviour and my inability to control myself in moments of extreme stress. I'm desperate that I minimise the impact on my children. It's probably not enough but I try to do Mindful Monsters with them, and we have endless books about emotions, mindfulness etc that we look at regularly. We discuss emotions very openly and I'm honest with them that I don't manage my emotions well at times. I am trying to teach them the skills I never learned.

If my husband said he was going to leave me over it I would be utterly devastated. I would understand where he was coming from and I would try anything (counselling, educating myself, drugs, anything) that I could to change but it could possibly trigger a self-loathing spiral. Part of what I need from my husband is his rock-solid unshakeable acceptance of me and loyalty to me but I do recognise it would be a pretty desperate situation to get to that point. I'd hate the idea that I was making him or the children miserable.

I doubt that is helpful but just from a different perspective. I hope you can reach a point where you are happier. It sounds miserable living with your husband and you shouldn't have to live feeling like you're in danger of setting him off for very minor things or walking on eggshells.

@Peach1886

I have similar problems with my DH, although for different reasons. Early last year it got too much, after yet another outburst which upset the DC, and I finally lost it and told him if he didn't get some anger management therapy, immediately, then I would be asking him to move out.

He thought I'd get over it, as so many times before, but when he clearly hadn't done anything a couple of weeks later, and got needlessly aggressive with one of us again, I told him that he could either ring someone that day, or he could find himself somewhere else to stay.

He was really shocked and he did ring the GP, and after me hassling him to follow it up, he eventually got some one-to-one sessions (over the phone of course, due to COVID). They helped a lot, nothing is cured but he loses his temper or is generally grumpy much less often these days. It's not perfect, some days he is still nasty, but I now take a zero tolerance approach to it (I have got braver and don't do the eggshells thing) and it seems to bring him up short.

I don't like the effect of his behaviour on me or the DC, and the jury is still out as to whether we will always be together, but for now it is much better than it was.

That’s interesting peach, good to hear that he acted on it and it’s got a bit better for you. It can happen then. Thanks

Yes, me not getting emotional in my responses is a good idea, thanks Weary

Nopup, thanks so much for that. Really interesting to hear the other side in a sensible and reasonable way. Your dh sounds great. I wish my dh could be more like you - more self aware and able to affect own behaviour

@Glasslamppicture it definitely can get better, I just needed to get to a point where I allowed myself to acknowledge how bad it was (because of my own childhood I wondered if I was over-reacting). I feel bad that I didn't reach my limit before then, so that the DC have had to put up with him being horrible sometimes, but it is stopped now and if he backslides there is only one way to go. Not where I wanted my marriage to be, but he now knows he has to curb his temper...and he can clearly do it (although he has had problems with it at work as well) so he can keep on doing it or he's out of here.

In the first instance, I think I would actually suggest that you seek out some sort of support. You can either do this privately (quicker) or via the NHS.

If this is an ongoing issue for him then I assume he is under a medical team? If so, they should have a duty of care to support the family as well. I work in an NHS therapy team and when there are relationship/family problems then we can support/refer. The idea being that it's a prevents a problem getting worse (i.e. splitting up, divorcing, impacting his mental and physical health further).

Once you feel supported and are able to view the situation differently you can decide what to do. I would also be very clear with him that you need support to deal with this as you are getting to the end of your tether.

Tell him you won't be putting up with it anymore because it isn't fair on you or the children.

Every time he starts hold up your hand and say "Stop! Don't you dare!"

One of two things will happen. Either he'll realise how much he is doing it and back off, take responsibility, and learn to behave, or he'll escalate and you'll know what to do.

He does it because he can get away with it- he wouldn't behave like that in a work place.

My DH was like this. He loves the kids, he loves me, but has a condition that makes him anxious and sensitive to stress and then he has an inappropriately angry response to that stress.

Things got worse during lockdown and finally he turned his anger on the kids - not physically but verbally - and I snapped and we agreed it was best for all of us that he move out.

People felt very sorry for me, alone with 3 young DCs in lockdown, but honestly it was liberating. I was exhausted, but once things are more open that would be fine. And having to take out the bins once a week, and having to budget tightly, is a more than acceptable price for feeling at peace in my own home.

Now he's doing therapy and working on it and wants to move back after this lockdown, I'm really unsure - because his best days are great but his worst are awful. Reading your post has actually helped crystallise my thoughts, and why I'm not keen to try again.

@NoPupIsTooSmall if you are breaking things and hurting yourself when angry, you need to see a professional right away. Your husband is not a calm ship, he's a human and this will be slowly drowning him, even if neither of you see it yet - I've been that 'calm rock' and it isn't sustainable or appropriate to support a spouse who is behaving in this way. Nor will telling your children that you are doing it wrong be enough - children learn from what you do far more than from the best app ever created. They will more than likely end up in relationships where they end up breaking things or hurting themselves - or even others, because when you break things in an argument, the clear message the other person receives is that you would like to break them, and either had just enough control to redirect the energy but not enough to stop it, or worse, that you wanted to send them that message. I can feel how much you love them, and you say you'd do anything and everything, just please make sure you actually are doing all that, because what you're describing is dangerous.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. What is in this for you still?.

How does your H behave around family, neighbours, work colleagues, people int he outside world?. To outsiders I would think he is all sweetness and light, it is behind closed doors that you see his true nature and his verbal abuse of you is solely for you. HE is being the one who is not understanding nor giving any leeway; he is basically projecting his own self hatred onto you. You in turn however, are not a rehab centre for some badly raised man.

The fact he has a chronic pain condition too is a red herring; he does this because he can and it works for him. He further uses his painful feet condition as an further excuse to verbally abuse you with. He would behave the same towards you even if he did not have this pain condition. Such men hate women too, all of them.

You have stayed within this relationship for your own perhaps selfish and or spurious reasons; perhaps out of fear of being alone, financial concerns, for the kids etc. None of those reasons are good enough to stay with such a person and besides which AM courses are no answer to verbal violence within the home. He has a problem with anger, YOUR anger, when you have called him out on his unreasonable behaviours.

Nopup is truly to be commended, this person has and is proactively dealing with her issues and its working out. Your H however, is nowhere near doing that because he has no self awareness of how this from him affects you. Nopup also has two qualities that your H entirely lacks; empathy and insight. His parents likely also lack such qualities.

I would concur however that Nopup does need to see a counsellor or therapist to properly thrash out how and why this all started at all. It is perhaps linked to that person's childhood experiences at the hands of parents. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents.

OP,

I feel very sorry for you.

He sounds highly abusive.

Your children without a doubt will carry this with them.

The tea example is perfect.
Not anger issues, just an abusive bully who is now conveniently using a health condition.
He was always like this.

OP,
There is no way that you are going to want to spend the rest of your life with such a horror.
You will regret hugely staying when your children spell it out for you in the future that it blighted their childhood.

You are a great mother but you cant shield them from who he is.

If you separate, the children would have the blessed peaceful sanctuary of their home with you.
So much better than 100% stress and toxicity.

Please contact Women's aid for support and get some legal advice.

I mean this kindly, but you have allowed him to get away with this for too long.

He needs to be told leave and sort himself out.
Call 101 to flag your home.
Calling the police when he kicks off next time could be just the reality check he needs.
It's very difficult, but when you have children you have to protect them at all cost and sometimes that can include a parent.

His behaviour is destroying their childhood.

If he can control himself and prevent himself from behaving like an asshole in front of his boss or clients (which I can assume he can) , then he can absolutely do it with you. He chooses not to because he think you won't leave, and he doesn't mind snapping at you when he feels bad. It could be the pain, yes, but he could be inherently a neurotic person (look it up, it's a psychology term). It might not just be his upbringing, he might actually have inherited it genetically. If it is that, then he can maybe modify some of his behaviour if he wants to, but it will be a superficial change, and one that is stable or permanent.

If this issue is anything to do with the nervous system, it's really not going to help, since perception of pain is influenced by stress and depression.

If they won’t change because they can see it’s making their partner unhappy and has potential to damage their kids, that should be enough in my view to make the change. I’m disappointed that he doesn’t feel strongly enough about us to change for those reasons

100% this. Some people are more selfish than that and won't change their ways until you take something they want from them. Doing it for you and your wellbeing isn't enough. By the time they do change, their partner has already seen them in a different light and it really damages trust. Maybe we're all a bit prone to this, but I think some people display it more than others.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all of this. Lots to think about.

You can’t go on accepting his excuses to do better, well you can but you won’t get a different outcome.

The balls in your court but he won’t change unless it’s in his best interest to do so (self interest) and no, your unhappiness obviously isn’t enough of an incentive for him to change.

He doesn’t deal with stress well and he over reacts to things, often ending up with him calling me a name or getting angry with me, sometimes in front of our kids.

This is not loving and it is selfish.

And regularly calling you names and shouting at you in front of the kids isn't what a good father does.

If we split though, the kids would still be around him and see the behaviour though, so... how would that even work?

Because his behaviour would then be a man being a shouty moody wanker who is no longer married.

Whereas now he is a wanker who shouts at his wife and calls her names and is moody most of the time - modelling that dynamic as the norm / the acceptable to them.

Hugely different when it comes to their future relationships as teens and adults.

I think it's a man thing not willing to have counselling. Mine took years to get counselling but not because he has a condition I do. However it's taken it's toll on our relationship over the years. Finally he got counselling last year.

He’s not really a brilliant father if he calls you names in front of the children, is he?

ok but I’m also not. I’m so used to this that when he gets annoyed with me (last example was last week when I was with the kids homeschooling, he was in his office working, id made myself a cuppa but not asked him if he wanted one. He came through, saw I’d got a tea, started slamming things round making himself one and stormed out. It escalated a bit as I went to speak to him about it and he got angry with me) it’s such a familiar feeling and then I’m raging inside shouting at myself for again being walked over or treading on eggshells over something stupid. He won’t understand that feeeling of “not this again” as he’s not on the receiving end of it but it’s hard to bear

^^

Sit down with him when he’s calm and explain that this childish behaviour has to stop and he needs to find the words to express his needs politely. In the situation above he could have nicely requested to ha e a coffee next time you have one.

He needs anger management or counselling to reflect on his behaviour. He can change but only if he puts the effort in