Told DH I want a divorce but now I'm not sure

[Trinpy]

I've been with DH 12 years and we have 2 primary school aged dcs. His job involves him working evenings and weekends, which wasn't a problem before we had kids because I worked shifts too so we would still have time together. Once our eldest got to preschool age I switched to an office job so I could be home evenings and weekends. My DH chose not to change jobs which meant the only quality time he spent with the dcs and I was 2 evenings a week. I became increasingly unhappy about this because I missed him horribly, I had no help with the dcs and I couldn't have much of a social life or hobbies because I always had to be a home with kids. I lost most of my friends and I felt increasingly isolated and depressed. We spoke multiple times about this and about how unhappy I was but nothing ever changed. I couldn't end our relationship for financial reasons and he and the kids seemed happy, so I made the choice to stay. About a year ago he managed to change his hours so he is at home for around 50% of the Saturdays in the year, which has been a huge improvement but, if I'm honest, still not what I want our relationship to be like.

Recently a few things have happened which have made me reassess things and I decided I didn't want to be with him anymore. The thought of this being my life for years to come fills me with absolute dread. I told him this week that I wanted a divorce for this and other reasons. He was initially accepting of it but he's now said he is desperate to try to make things work and has come up with a plan of how to sort the work situation. He has said he can change job roles at work to one where he works the early shifts instead, so he would be home in the evening. The downside is that this would come with a big pay drop. He also wants to do a 6 year part time degree to get a job with better hours. I feel like I should be meeting him halfway on this and seeing if things improve with the change in hours, but there are other issues in the relationship too and I'm worried I'll agree to giving it another shot only to still be miserable but now he'll have less money and a ton of student debt. I'm not sure what to do.

The other issues are: he criticises/nitpicks, he has horrible moods sometimes when the dcs wind him up and we all end up walking on eggshells around him, he can be too harsh on the dcs and I end up in the middle of it trying to calm everyone down, the sex isn't great - I've never felt any emotional connection with him during it and he doesn't bother with any foreplay unless I specifically ask for it and then it's half-hearted, he's a bad kisser and doesn't seem to want to improve, he's rubbish with talking about his feelings and if somethings bothering him he will stay in a horrible mood until I manage to persuade him to talk about it.

On the other hand, the dcs love having us all living together, he can be so sweet and thoughtful, when he's here he really is a great dad and devotes all his attention to them, he's my best friend and I love him.

But I'm also horribly depressed and I've been on antidepressants for 2 years just to help me maintain this relationship. I've no idea what to do.

It's really not ok. I know it sounds shocking written down like that but the vast majority of the time he is lovely. We'll have a talk about it and he'll be really sorry and months can then go by until it happens again, so I always think he's changed, until it happens again. If it was all the time and the kids hated him then that would have seemed very different.

Sorry, I know I'm coming across as the worst mum ever. I'm worried that I'm making it come across as worse than it is because im angry at him about other stuff.

I think as is common you are not making it come across as worse indeed you are trying to downplay it

All of your reasons not to leave involve him and how he wont be able to cope. He isnt your responsibility your children are and you need to put them first and show them that his behaviour is not ok and you leave

Your depression seems to be linked to trying to make it work - surely what is best for you and your children is to leave

Your children will not remember all the lovely times. They'll remember the times when they were terrified of their dad who hit them and smashed their toys whilst their mother did nothing.

I don't want to berate you OP but that is what will stand out from your children's childhoods.

Thing is, being lovely even 95% of the time doesn't erase the damage of the 5% of the time.

And underlying all the good times is the uncertainty of when he'll inevitably turn into Scarydad again.

Kids are basically hard-wired to love their parents, and may even fawn over the unreliable one to try to keep their favour. It's on you to make the hard decisions for them as the adult with options.

Having talks about it doesn't stop it recurring. It's easy to minimise and hope this time is the last time, but it never is.

How many times has he said that he's sorry and you've hoped this time it will stick? You're on the point of splitting, fgs, don't get suckered again by false hope and promises. He's already shown you repeatedly he doesn't change.

We've had another big discussion. He's apologised to me, promised me he will change, he'll get therapy, etc. I've said it's not enough and that although I believe he can change I don't believe anyone can change overnight. I know he talks to a friend of his sometimes about his anger as she is trained in anger management therapy and that does seem to help him. However she is clearly only getting his very filtered view of it as she says things like 'everyone gets mad at their kids sometimes'. I wonder how helpful any therapy would be when the version of the truth they're getting from him is so far removed from what actually happens.

Thank you very much for not berating me. I can see where I've gone wrong and I know I have to leave.

@Trinpy

We've had another big discussion. He's apologised to me, promised me he will change, he'll get therapy, etc. I've said it's not enough and that although I believe he can change I don't believe anyone can change overnight. I know he talks to a friend of his sometimes about his anger as she is trained in anger management therapy and that does seem to help him. However she is clearly only getting his very filtered view of it as she says things like 'everyone gets mad at their kids sometimes'. I wonder how helpful any therapy would be when the version of the truth they're getting from him is so far removed from what actually happens.

Thank you very much for not berating me. I can see where I've gone wrong and I know I have to leave.

It's tough to leave even when it's what you want. Mine promised we would get therapy and he would do anything to sort it out. Shame this realisation didn't come of his own accord when I was very clearly drowning. Only as a last minute ditch attempt to fix things.

You can call time on your marriage but continue to co-parent and live together amicably under one roof until such a time it makes financial sense to have separate places

@category12

Doesn't that just mean he could have been lovely all this time and has chosen not to be, because what, it's too much effort to be nice to you normally?

And it's only worth changing things that make you miserable at the point you're ready to end things, because you being miserable wasn't good enough reason?

@category12 Sad isn't it. By the time some people finally implement the changes, it's already too late. One person sees that the other was ok with them being miserable. There simply wasn't enough in it for them to change as they are secure that their partner will never, or cannot leave for financial reasons. Making their partner happy, enjoying their happiness isn't a good enough reason on it's own. One has to take something away from them that they want, which is to be in a relationship with a person who might be really nice to them compared to the other way around. It's only when the other person threatens to leave does that other person see how easy it was for their partner to stop behaving like a daily asshole, sometimes over night. By that time, the injured party has seen a side of their partner that permanently affects the way they think of them, and the trust is sometimes irreparable.

Also, the bare minimum you should expect from a marriage is that it's neutral most of the time. Not even great, just ok or neutral, but it sounds like it was a struggle to even have that with him. I think you've seen now that this is a pattern of behavior and there's always a next time. It's sounds to me like not only did he grow up with abusive parents where bad behavior was normalised, but he might also be one of those people who are neurotic and get stressed easily. Not a good things if you have kids!

You can patch it up but it is broken, throwing breaking the DC 's toys, hitting them, that is not a stricter parent he is a maniac.
I can't understand how you say he is lovely too now update/drip in the abuse.

I have a slightly different take on it all, OP.
Main things that jumped at me were - your depression; issues in the relationship (his behaviour); his realisation that it’s serious and willingness to try to change. And more importantly - you saying that you do love him.

I have been depressed and medicated too. I know how desperate everything seems when in that dark place. And I also know that it’s not necessarily the best time to make serious life decisions.

Divorce is incredibly difficult, and requires clarity of head and lots of strength. The way you describe your condition - I am not sure how you’d manage without spiralling down more.

Related to that - Are you sure your meds are at the right dose? Have you asked for talk therapy in addition to meds - as that has better results than meds alone.

Other than that - and given that you do still love him - why not try to set a timeframe for yourself? Timeframe for him to prove to you that he can change and that he is actually doing it. But it has to be proper steps - not just chatting to a friend.

@Trinpy

But I'm also horribly depressed and I've been on antidepressants for 2 years just to help me maintain this relationship. I've no idea what to do.
Is this good enough for you though? I can't imagine having to be medicated for the next few decades in order to stay in a relationship with someone who makes me so unhappy- where the bad so outweighs the good.

You worry about your children if you left, but they would adapt don't you think? And, who knows, he might be a better father if you separated. You, yourself, might have a better quality of life without being in the same space with him. Also, consider what your position will be whilst he studies for six years whilst also taking a big drop in income. Would you still feel able to move on if he made this "sacrifice" for you?

Reading your posts and, in particular, those clear posts of @category12 makes me so sad. It sounds like you are truly considering separation and divorce (you've already looked at how you'd cope financially without him).

I wish you strength, whatever decision you come to, as it will be hard. Only you can decide whether staying and making the best of what you've got or, making the harder decision of moving on, will be best for you and your children in the long run. Good luck, OP. 🌹

Honestly I can't think why you want him around more. He sounds like he loses his temper with the children, throws stuff, has on occasion hit them. If he was around more then he'd likely lose his temper more.

Hard as it is, I think you would be better off separating. You would probably get some tax credits & he has similar salary to you.

The part time degree - well that is 6 years. Can you manage another 6 years?

Can he move in with his parents?

You’re an adult & you don’t think he will hit you but his moods can scare you.

Imagine how your children feel because he does actually hit them.

Throwing & breaking toys is not normal. That sounds like an uncontrolled rage.

I had plenty of smacks as a kid & not anti smacking in theory. But what you’re saying sounds wrong IMO.

It’s not a smack because they ran out onto the road.

That’s an angry smack.

It doesn’t sound like a great relationship.

Trinpy,

I would push on with plans re divorcing him. He is very much a product of his own dysfunctional abusive upbringing and you’ve been on anti depressants to cope with him in this relationship.

Abusers are not nasty all the time because no-one would want to be with them otherwise but their nice and nasty cycle is a continuous one. He has a problem with anger but not in the ways you think. He has a problem with anger, YOUR anger, when you call him out on his unreasonable behaviours. Anger management courses as well are NO answer to domestic violence which is also what you have been describing here.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here? Is this really the model they should be learning from, no its not and it’s not good enough for you either. I would also think that going forward you taking anti depressants would cease entirely if he was not in your day to day lives.

Trinpy,

And such men always promise that they will change, it does not happen. He will merely over time revert to type I,e continuing that dysfunctional and abusive model of a relationship he saw as a child. My guess is that he won’t make divorcing him at all straight forward for you and you will further see obstructiveness and other difficult behaviour from him even after you have separated.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?
You have a choice re this man and they do not.
Show your children now a better model of a relationship, you will all thrive without him being present in your daily lives.

His whole family live in another country so he couldn't live with them. He tries to limit contact with them anyway.

I know it probably sounds ridiculous that I say he's lovely when he's like this but most of the time he is so patient and gentle with the kids. He has been doing all the youngest DC's home learning with him this lockdown and he's so sweet with him. But then when he flips its awful.

Thank you for your detailed posts Attila. What kind of help could he get to change? He has a counselling session on Friday.

Trinpy

Please pay heed here.

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is NONE.

Your H will not change with some mere counselling sessions; this is who he is and what he is works for him. He is not committed to this at all and is just telling you what you perhaps still wants to hear.

He has you all terrified and otherwise walking on eggshells (aka code for living in fear) around him for a start. He does this to you all because he can and it works for him. Its not your fault he is like this and you did not make him that way; his parents did that and their relationship is abusive in nature as well. He is very much a product of his own upbringing. He learnt about abusing others from his parents.

Abusers as well are not nasty all the time because if they were no-one would want to be with them. His nice/nasty cycle towards you and the children is a continuous one and no amount of he being "nice" towards his children makes up at all for the fact that he has broken and or thrown their things as well as yours around within the home.

It would not surprise me either if he wanted to do this 6 year part time degree in order to further reduce his income so he does not have to pay as much for his children.

Abuse like this does creep up on people unawares and it is truly insidious in its onset. Read about the boiled frog analogy; that is you in this scenario Trinpy.

Abuse also is about power and control and this man wants absolute over you all.

I would also urge you to read "Living with the Dominator" by Pat Craven.

He is abusing you. He is abusing your children.

He hits them.

He breaks their belongings.

You and they are traumatised and conditioned to view his abuse as ok.

Please leave. No child should have to grow up in a home like this.

I think if you did the Freedom Programme course you might be surprised and reassured in a way to see how textbook his abuse is. Including promising to change to stop you getting free of him.

He hits your children and leaves them so afraid they walk on eggshells around him. That alone is sufficient to put him in the nearest dustbin.

You do realise that the reason the kids seem to "adore" him is because they are desperate to get him to love them and trying to prove themselves loveable enough that he will stop hurting and terrorising them? Children love their parents even when those parents hurt them catastrophically. That is not a reason to allow abuse to continue, regardless of frequency.

I don't think you're a bad mum. I do think you need to understand that your children will not thank you when they are traumatised, damaged adults for using them as the excuse to remain in an abusive situation and therefore forcing them to remain there. It helps nobody to pretend otherwise.

He hits your children. That should have been in the op. That it wasn't shows how bad things are.

How much of a headfuck do you think it is for a child that they never know whether they're going to get kind daddy who teaches them or scary daddy who hits them and smashes stuff?

The thing is, what you're all saying about him doesn't match up with how he seems if you met him. Right now the kids are chatting to him normally, they are not scared of him. He never leaves a mark when he hits them, but he tends to hit them over the head so I guess he wouldn't. My eldest child automatically covers his head when he gets told off.

I will read the book recommended below.

Jesus, he hits them over the head?!

Have you seen the stuff about footballers brain damage from heading the ball on the news lately?

My eldest child automatically covers his head when he gets told off.

And yet is "not scared" of the father.

Come on now, op.

This has to be a wind up. Gradually dripping in more and more details?
Your husband is abusing your children and you are allowing it.
I work with children and if one confided in me or one of my colleagues that daddy hit them on the head and broke their toys it would be immediately referred to social services.

Stop dithting and thinkingvaboutvyourself and getbyour children out of thstvdangerous and toxic environment.