The reality of divorcing an abuser

[Divorcing]

I'm interested in your thoughts. I have been on MN since TTC in 2014 and name changed. MN really helped me to make the decision to leave my verbally abusive H. I completely see why it was the right call.

But, things are tough.

I wanted to separate whilst my DD was young and she wouldn't remember that her parents split up. This isn't the reality. By the time I have my own space DD will be almost 8/9. That means living with my parents for up to 4 more years whilst he has family home.

He is very clever in what he does and has basically said to me that he will not make things easy. Solicitor says it could take up to four years to divorce if he does this. He has verbally admitted that he has been logging into my accounts using old passwords. But I can't prove any of this.

The school have picked me up on her not having adequate winter protection on days he drops her off. I have to argue with him to clean the house. He doesn't read to her, never does homework with her. He is an au pair at best. He is very clever as it is all subtle that isn't worth SS picking up on. Not enough to involve them.

He sees her every weekend and I can't change that unless an order is in place, with currently delays could take YEARS.

I filed for divorce in September last year. I still do not have the paperwork, up to a year delay reported by other MN users. So thats 12 months BEFORE anything can start to happen.

I am a lot stronger than I was. He does not have a hold on me like he did. So that I can protect her and sort out divorce later down the line.

I feel like I have made this decision to have a child with him and I should live with the consequences until DD is older. He is terribly racist, sexist and homophobic. None of it I can prove it is my word against his. Solicitor isn't confident that I would have a case to abstain contact. He doesn't take responsibility for anything and expects me as main earner to keep funding him. (I've taken a second and third opinion)

I don't want to be with him but the thought of another 4 + years like this, I just can't do it. The system sucks. It isn't as clear cut as LTB. I completely see why people decide to divorce once the kids are older. I look at my friends and family and none of them have perfect happy marriages. I have taken a lot of therapy over the last 18 months and I understand that I have become my mother. Something I am working on to break the chain.

My question is, do I give him conditions and move back into the family home whilst DD is young?

"My question is, do I give him conditions and move back into the family home whilst DD is young?"

No to both. Why would you do that to yourself and her?. In four plus years time you will be in an even worse position than you are now; you both will have been further ground down by his abuses.

Your current H was abusive when you were with him and remains so both to you and your DD. He has not changed a bit. Your DD in particular cannot grow up learning such damaging lessons on relationships for her to potentially repeat as an adult. You cannot protect your own self from his abuses of you let alone protecting your child. Going back to him will merely put her again in his line of fire.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. You wrote yourself you turned into someone like your mother, what sort of an example did she show you. You are not your mother and you do not have to make poor choices here like she presumably did with you. You have a choice re this man, your child does not.

Is your Solicitor aware that the school have picked me up on her not having adequate winter protection on days he drops her off?. If he wants to see his child (and I think he only sees her at all to get one over on you) then he can go through the court process.

How good exactly is your Solicitor?. If you are not confident in their abilities find another one to work with. No point working with what appears to be a wishy washy solicitor.

I would also suggest you enlist the help of both Womens Aid and the Rights of Women (the R of W can give legal advice too).

Staying for the sake of the child never works and its an action too your DD will not thank you for doing.

Waiting for the children to go off to college and then divorcing may make the kids feel guilty that their parents sacrificed their own happiness for them. We owe our children much more than the physicality of an intact family. We owe them our truth. Do not further sacrifice your own happiness here or that of your DDs for your male abuser.

Not infrequently, people are simply afraid to move on with their lives and take their own responsibility for happiness. Financial concerns or the fear of being alone often motivate such paralysis, hidden beneath the mask of staying together for the children. Unloving or conflicted marriages often follow a lineage as they are passed down from generation to generation. And so the cycle continues. Is this what we really wish for our children? It is much more challenging to come to terms with our own circumstances and face our fears than it is to hide behind them as we stay together “for the kids.”

I clicked out of this. I wasn't going to reply. But then guilt made me come back.

I have to say how risky and potentially dangerous I find your post to be.

A woman may stay and be seriously harmed and or killed after reading your post. I know that isn't your intention but as a certain disgraced president is struggling to grasp, your words online have real potential to hurt and harm.

It didn't and doesn't have to be as you've experienced. You could have lined ducks up better before you left. Ypu could have recorded him ob your phone being abusive and neglectful of your child. You could have reported to the police and used their help to have him removed from the fanily home. If ira mortgaged there were steps you could have taken to keep you and ypir child in the family home via the courts. You could have referred yourself to social services (you still can) out of concern that you cannot adequately safeguard her from her father's behaviour.

If a safeguarding risk is raised they HAVE to do an assessment which involves speaking to all professionals involved with your child and speaking to her in a way that will be child friendly and get to the bottom of what goes on when you're not there.

I agree that unless a real risk of immediate physical harm exists no woman should ever just leave without protecting herself and getting things into place. But women should ALWAYS and EVERY TIME leave an abusive spouse.

Solicitor is very good and has a good record behind him. He has worked on some very high profile cases. I've also got two other opinions and they are the same.

I just don't know what do to anymore. I just feel like all DD's little years are going to be gone before I know it and that's going to be years of bitterness and battles.

My parents haven't got a really bad marriage but very traditional. Mum is a pleaser so doesn't often have a view on life. Even though I know what he has done is awful, I feel sorry for him and I'm still putting him first.

I know its completely wrong.

Moving back in with him would be a gross failure to protect your daughter.

You're at the tough wobbly stage, but you have to keep going if you want things to get better. You are not yet as strong as you say if you are even contemplating moving yourself and your poor daughter back into an abusive home.

However low your own self-esteem and however deep your self-loathing, your daughter does not deserve that.

@loopyapp

I clicked out of this. I wasn't going to reply. But then guilt made me come back.

I have to say how risky and potentially dangerous I find your post to be.

A woman may stay and be seriously harmed and or killed after reading your post. I know that isn't your intention but as a certain disgraced president is struggling to grasp, your words online have real potential to hurt and harm.

It didn't and doesn't have to be as you've experienced. You could have lined ducks up better before you left. Ypu could have recorded him ob your phone being abusive and neglectful of your child. You could have reported to the police and used their help to have him removed from the fanily home. If ira mortgaged there were steps you could have taken to keep you and ypir child in the family home via the courts. You could have referred yourself to social services (you still can) out of concern that you cannot adequately safeguard her from her father's behaviour.

If a safeguarding risk is raised they HAVE to do an assessment which involves speaking to all professionals involved with your child and speaking to her in a way that will be child friendly and get to the bottom of what goes on when you're not there.

I agree that unless a real risk of immediate physical harm exists no woman should ever just leave without protecting herself and getting things into place. But women should ALWAYS and EVERY TIME leave an abusive spouse.

I will ask Mumsnet to delete my post. It was no way intended to be as you have made out but it is the reality in my situation. There's delays in the courts and its taking years to seperate.

I haven't got any evidence unfortunately. It's my word against his. It's all very well in hindsight but at that particular time I HAD to get out. But thanks for taking the time to reply.

@Mackerelpizza

Moving back in with him would be a gross failure to protect your daughter.

You're at the tough wobbly stage, but you have to keep going if you want things to get better. You are not yet as strong as you say if you are even contemplating moving yourself and your poor daughter back into an abusive home.

However low your own self-esteem and however deep your self-loathing, your daughter does not deserve that.

Thanks. I've tried so hard to keep it together. People can't see what I can see that's the issue.

I suffer from PTSD so sometimes I can't think clearly.

There's an imbalance in the system, I fled my home because I needed to get away. It shouldn't take this long to get a clean break.

I'm sorry I only came on here for help. I didn't mean to cause upset.

loopyapp I do understand where you are coming from. It’s one of the reasons I haven’t posted about how shit my own life still is 8 years after leaving my abuser. And I agree OP should still leave for the sake of the child if nothing else.

But I also feel people do not understand how backward the family courts are in dealing with domestic abuse especially when it is the sort of insidious can’t put your finger on it verbal abuse that OP describes. And I think it’s unfair to victim blame OP for not doing enough before leaving her ex.

OP I get it. All I can say to you is that difficult as my life still is (primarily because my ex has made it so), I still have the peace that comes from knowing that I can do my own thing in my own space and he doesn’t get to control me any more. And my child is not watching and learning from a terrible abusive model of how relationships are. Sure, he could still break into my house and murder me someday. But at least I’ve tried to stop him and put some barriers in his way, and there is some comfort in that.

Divorcing you are right that there is an imbalance in the system. I genuinely believe in a hundred years we will look back in horror at how domestic abuse was dealt with in the courts and by society at this time, just like we look in horror at slavery now but someone arguing against it in court at the time would have got short shrift.

All I want to be is happy. But I can't see a way forward either way that will do that. I'm glad you found peace @Iceskatingfan

It just seems so far away for DD and me.

You haven't caused upset. You have only discussed your own confusion.

All of the coulda woulda shoulda is by the by. You got out as and when you did. Everything else will follow in it's own time.

But no....DO NOT go back. You will be putting yourself and your DD back into a coerced, abusive situation.

Whatever your past choices, including having a child with him, were made in good faith. You didn't deliberately choose a man who is abusive, did you? So whatever he became was him, his doing, not yours.

Best of luck finding the strength to carry on in the face of his continued abusiveness.

The school have picked me up on her not having adequate winter protection on days he drops her off. I have to argue with him to clean the house. He doesn't read to her, never does homework with her. He is an au pair at best. He is very clever as it is all subtle that isn't worth SS picking up on. Not enough to involve them.

not so clever. You DO involve them. You contact them and ask for advice on how to deal with these issues as he has made it clear to you that it's low-level abuse which he is engaging in in order to try and make you return, you're obviously not going to do that so could they suggest some strategies? - so - you create a paper trail. You don't call them raging and accuse all sorts - you just clearly and factually inform them of what's happening with his parenting with a clear request for help if possible.

You do the same with the school. You email reply as above, making it clear that it's an abuse tactic that he's admitted and you're very sorry, you are trying to take this up with SS in the hope that peaceful co-parenting can be achieved and that perhaps help and guidance can make him realise that it's only DD he is hurting with these actions :) You are measured, informative, clear - and you pull no punches describing exactly what is going on. Qualify it - 'As you can appreciate, DD's dad is very clever not to put in writing his agenda here, so I am very aware that I can't prove what I'm saying and certainly don't expect you to take any action on my say so as a result. I do however think I should let you know as much as I can, and also state that my only goal here is to try and co-operate wherever I can and take whatever help is available for DD's welfare and to get things to work smoothly.'

He sees her every weekend and I can't change that unless an order is in place, with currently delays could take YEARS.

• the norm is every other weekend and a night in the week. It's not reasonable that you get no weekend time with your child. Speak to your solicitor, first get a residence order that says that DD lives with you (so that the police have the power to return her if he plays silly buggers) then inform him via solicitor that it's not in DD's interest to have no weekend time at home and you will be switching the times she is available to every other weekend but are fine with him having her for an overnight in the week. Then just do it and if he kicks off call the police.

loopyapp that's one hell of a nasty way to respond to the OP!

Oh and handovers? Record every one, secretly.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply. I am trying to be as strong as I can but I'm finding it so incredibly hard.

Again I'm sorry if I have caused any upset. Not my intention at all.

Never mind apologising to previous posters - but PLEASE just do what @YoniAndGuy suggests! Perfect!

I have to say how risky and potentially dangerous I find your post to be.

Perhaps focus your care and concern at the actual victim, the OP, stood virtually before you, than this theoretical victim you have such genuine concern for.

OP, the domestic abuse bill 2021, once passed, will be of enormous help in breaking free - post separation coercive control is to become illegal. Not many more months now.

www.itv.com/news/2021-01-05/after-three-years-of-delays-domestic-abuse-bill-is-best-chance-in-decades-of-better-protection-for-survivors

Thank you all. I feel a bit better than I did earlier. I just feel so paralysed with fear to move forward.

Finding the strength required is difficult sometimes.

PP are right i was too harsh and I am really sorry for that.

I shouldn't have written my reply while I was still a bit rattled by the potential for putting another victim off.

Can i suggest that you consider contacting your local MP this is something they should ultimately be involved with for two reasons.

Supporting vulnerable constituents and bringing the issue to light with regards to the epic failure that is the family courts.

I do have sympathy OP and I'm sorry for being so heavy handed. You absolutely did not deserve that. X

OP, please don't apologise. This is absolutely the place to come for support.

Please don't go back. Do you really think it will be better - odds are the abuse will get worse just to punish you for leaving. He'll do everything he can to grind you down so you don't have the strength to do it again. And your poor DD does not deserve this.

@Divorcing you should be v v proud that you have taken your DD out of this horror show. You have given her a previous life long gift. She now has the opportunity to live most of her days in a calm and peaceful home with an emotionally present and attuned mother. This is what she needs to flourish and develop emotionally.

If / when she experiences less when with her father she will know and sense the contrast. She will know where kindness and respect is and that she deserves this.

I respect and understand the frustration of the chaos, disruption and delay he will continue to try to wreak on you via access and the divorce process. But he is not above the law - so know where the safeguarding and legal redlines are, be clear on the reporting process and call in the authorities each time.

You cannot spend you life on hold waiting to be divorced. You need to access support systems and coping strategies which allow you to compartmentalise him and his antics so that ever moment you spend with your DD is productive and precious. He can’t pollute your vital nourishing love for your DD that you can give her all day everyday. Don’t let him infiltrate your head and preoccupy your mind - because you need full 100% focus on your DD and your life today.

You have done an amazing and astonishing thing for your DD. It started the day you left.

We have posters on here who left it too long or were the child in similar situations and the child’s MH is wrecked in teenage / adult and is v v difficult to resolve and they are unable to access basic life opportunities.

It is hard to find that strength @Divorcing. But it would be even harder to go back and then try to leave again. It's not as easy as the portrayal on here LTB and get a solicitor and your DC will be safe from their angry/verbally abusive/emotionally abusive parent. The reality is that type of abuse is very hard to prove and the bar for acceptable parenting is too low in the family courts.

But you can carve out a safe space for you both. Going back will erode you, will damage your ability to be present and advocate for your DC. YoniandGuys advice is great. I'd start there, focus on getting a residential order and getting alternate weekends back so DD doesn't need to deal with him every weekend. Then move onto the next step to get to where you want to be. If the divorce is in train and it's just waiting till you get a response on your application focus on other things you can do to build the life you want. The time waiting isn't a waste, it's time you can be investing in yourself and moving toward where you want to be.

As others have said moving back in isn't a good idea. The abuse won't disappear and could do even more damage to both you and your daughter.

Unfortunately the divorce court process in this country is ridiculously convoluted and unnecessarily slow even without the delays caused by covid. I had two rounds of court with my emotionally abusive ex husband, the first to divorce and separate finances and the second to try to undo what he had already agreed in the first. It was extremely stressful, I am not going to lie, but I did get through. I came out with a fantastic final settlement clean break and no longer have to ever deal with the piece of work again. It was the support of a very good therapist that gave me the resilience to keep going. You mentioned therapy. Are you able to keep up with this?

Whilst there may be a long wait for the divorce it would not be unreasonable to start setting yourself up as if you are divorced. If you are too generous now you may have a hard time trying to reduce it in a couple of years (hopefully sooner) when access and settlement is discussed.

As for your ex having access every weekend, you don't have a court order so why are you allowing this? What would happen if you reduced it to every other weekend which is standard for non-resident parents? Are you afraid of his reaction? And be aware, abusers use children to get to their spouses all the time. Mine played Disney dad and tried to turn my daughter against me. I waited patiently, said nothing, until he dumped her when second wife came along. My daughter is fully aware of what her father is like and wants nothing to do with him. Hurtful but inevitable with an abuser.

Paying for everything. Does your exH work? I would be wary of being over generous with payments to him as you are setting a precedent for the court. Perhaps work out what expenses your ex H reasonably needs to continue living in the family home at the moment and work out what you can both contribute. Not sure of your finances but is it possible for you to rent somewhere? If he wants to live in the family home he needs to ensure that is viable.

This is going to be a really testing time for you Op but keep proactive, keep your faith in the end game and get the life you and your daughter deserve!

Thanks for everyone’s replies. They’ve been really useful to me. I took the steps to move things forward this weekend. I was terrified it took me a long time to get the courage to do so.

He has said that he would like to go to a few counselling sessions together and then to mediation so we can both get closure. I think this will be helpful for me because there’s a lot of things I have to say and I want to do this in a safe environment.

Is this such a thing ? As it’s not really marriage counselling is it. I don’t even know where to start looking for something like this

"He has said that he would like to go to a few counselling sessions together and then to mediation so we can both get closure. I think this will be helpful for me because there’s a lot of things I have to say and I want to do this in a safe environment".

No no and no. This man here is further yanking your chain, he really does not want to let go of you.

Do not ever undertake mediation or any form of joint counselling with him. It is never ever recommended where there is or has been abuse of any type within the relationship. He will use both here to really put the boot into you as "punishment" for you having the utter gall in his eyes to leave him. Currently as well you are by no means safe enough emotionally to undertake any of this with him. It will not be a safe environment for you and he could well likely use the counsellor to further manipulate and or use against you. Such men are also master manipulators and can turn on the charm at will. If you've been manipulated by him he can also manipulate a counsellor quite easily

Talking to Womens Aid on your own would be far more beneficial for you.