‘He Is Just Not That Into You’ & our crazy society

[liska5]

In a separate thread, I’ve shared earlier my recent experience with dating at 40, with 2 kids, after having been divorced, having moved to a new country (Switzerland) for a new job. Lots of stuff going on. Overall, I’m really happy - I love my kids, I’m good at my job, I’m succeeding in a country where I’m just learning the language and have zero support network. Oh, and it’s the surreal age of Corona.

Anyway, not all is great. I’ve had some really pathetic experiences with online dating - there’s no way to meet people in person now, so that seems to be the only alternative. And someone has recommended this book to me - ‘He’s just not that into you.’ So I’ve read it, and before that I read some other dating books as I’m new to this dating scene. And they all make me super sad (and angry). They all say that you just have to sit there and wait for your Prince Charming to pursue you - don’t ever call a guy first, don’t ask them out, and if he’s not calling often or texting often or keeps finding excuses why he hasn’t called you such as ‘my mum is sick, I’ve been busy at work/traveling/moving house whatever’, it all means he’s actively telling you to move on and you should just dump him. I’m so not used to this. In my previous long-term relationships, it all happened naturally, no games of who’s calling whom first and how often. So I do know it’s possible to meet a guy you just click with. I do know it - I have met them. Didn’t work out for life but it was pretty awesome in the beginning and for the two long term cases, for 12 and 8 years, respectively. Still, can’t remember all this ‘he’s the pursuer’ stuff - I definitely wasn’t playing games back then. But now... I don’t know. Yes, I’ve gone on dating sites for the first time in my life half a year ago and no, I haven’t been successful. We’d have a first date or two and that’s it, usually. Rejection isn’t ever easy, and here when I meet someone online and we don’t interact daily at work or whatever, it’s all about some dating games, texting rules, ‘let him chase you’ stuff. It’s so... unnatural and aggravating. Maybe I’ve just changed so much - and while it was super easy to have relationships in my 20s and 30s, now that I’m 40, a single mum with two kids, it seems to be pretty much an insurmountable mountain. I could, of course, just leave everything to fate and hope that I bump into someone awesome when I’m walking my dog (till now, fellow dog walkers in my area seem to all be 70+), or see someone’s dashing eyes above a mask in a supermarket and hope he also notices my eyes 😬😂 (yeah right), or wait till everything opens up again and then hopefully meet someone at work or in a park or in a bar, I don’t know. But now with Covid it all seems so unlikely and I’m really starting to think that I best just accept that meeting someone awesome I’d ever willingly introduce my kids to is really not for me. Anyone else ever felt that despaired about relationships?

It is much harder OP, as a woman in 40s navigating this too i share your pain!

I think common issues are - most people dating at our age have been through divorce/break ups, they are understandably more cautious. A lot have kids and exes to consider. Many have less disposable income due to living in a single adult household and/or kids to support. Some lost previous relationships due to being very dysfunctional/insecure attachment etc, that makes them harder to date.

I dont believe in 'rules' or game playing, however in the past few years I learned a few things. I won't invest more in a relationship than he does, it doesn't have to be exact but if one person is doing all the work to make the relationship work then it probably isn't worth it.

I do think it is much much harder than in 20s and pre kids. There seems to have to be much more compromise, you can't just fall in love and do exactly as you feel, as its likely one or other of you will have a poorly child/work trip/problem with ex which blocks some dates.

Yes. I signed up to a couple of dating apps. Absolute crock of shite.

I had a few matches, a few messages etc. It seems they all are the same cookie cutter blokes looking for the same cookie cutter woman.

I thought I’d be a bit brave. Whacked on some pictures inc ones with me and no make up. I had interest on those funnily enough. They liked my sense of humour... allegedly. But they all just felt so bland. So meh.

Plus I’m also at very awkward age as all the blokes either have small children and/or want them soonish I’m a bit picky when it comes to age of children and don’t really want to date anyone with children in primary whilst mine is in secondary iyswim. It’s a completely different kettle of fish when it comes to step parenting (when/if that happens) I’m probably shooting myself in the foot not wanting to date those men.

So, I’ve given up trying. Honestly doesn’t feel worth it for me. I can buy a decent dildo to meet most of those needs and, when covid allows, get back out there living my fully solo single mum life.

Can I offer you some hope? I went on tinder aged 43 and met now DH who was 37 at the time. We're 6 years down the line now. My daughter was 12 at the time we met and he didn't have children nor did he want to have any of his own (which probably explains his search age radius) however he's a great stepdad. I don't think it's worth trying to meet anyone at the moment but after Covid restrictions are lifted can I suggest dating a little younger? It worked for me and all the couple I know where the husband is younger it works for them too. I don't know why? But just a thought. Just because you're in your 40's you are not written off so please don't think it is.

I'm about fo hit 40 too and feel very much in the same boat. Online dating is absolutely dire but I can't imagine meeting someone in real life either, its been a long time since a man eyed me up for real as I don't think I'm conventionally attractive. All the men online seem really dysfunctional though and when I was married I had no idea how many awful men there are out there! I'm resigning myself to the fact that I might have had my time and its gone now, I feel like giving up.

Met my husband online when I was 38 and he was 40. I had a few online dating disasters before that and then found my husband who ironically lived in the next street!!!! Stick with it - wade out the frogs - we’ve been together for 12 years!!

It's not that deep. Don't give up your time/energy for a guy who isn't doing the same for you. Searching desperately for a bloke never brings good results.

I don’t want to search desperately. I would much prefer to bump into Mr Amazing while out with my dog or something. But the longer that’s not happening, the more frustrated I get, even though I realize that I shouldn’t be getting frustrated. It’s like if it’s beyond my control, and if the friggin Universe already gave me all my chances and I used them all up, so now whatever I do, the universe will just laugh at my pathetic attempts. Urgh 😒

I'm almost 50 and was single for 8 years post divorce

I did online dating for a few months each year and met some wonderful people who have turned into good friends of mine. I would say

1. Most men the same age as me wanted women 10-15 years younger
2. Most men the same age as me had kids much much younger than mine and I knew that would never work out
3. People continually said (when I got fed up with online dating) how I would 'bump into someone'. I think they forget you're a busy single mother effectively and whilst that might happen in films, in real life it's unusual
4. People would say 'join groups, start a hobby' but where do you find the time and when I looked into stuff I like like walking:swimming/singing it was all full of older women and no men!

5, Decent men 10 years older who wanted to go out with our age group were rare - and knew they had the pick of the crop and behaved that way

It seems to me that most men stay in unhappy marriages until they have another woman on the go and then leave for her. That leaves more single women around. I met so many men who lied, were married (without telling me), lied about age, kids, wealth etc. that for a couple of years I had to stop dating as I was starting to turn into a man hater.

It's a numbers game though - you just need to keep trawling through and eventually you will start meeting the good ones. It just takes some doing!

OP, don’t give up hope. I met mine at 46 on Match and he was 45. 6 years down the line we are still blissfully happy. I treated the whole OD as an opportunity to meet people I’d never normally get to meet, rather than trying to search for the one. I dated lightly, I dated lots, and until we’d had ‘the chat’ I didn’t go exclusive. It was a lot of fun, though I got so bored of having to do my nails all the time!

Oh. I was thinking of dippingy toe in. Not so sure now.

Yes don't give up hope. I was a single mother & dedicated 14 years to bringing up my children and my career, not wanting to get a man involved in our lives.

I was eventually persuaded by a close friend to try OLD in my early 50's, had six dates with different men - no chemistry and then had a date with a gorgeous man 20 years my junior (no kids). Extremely happy 5 years later.

I was happy enough being single and independent but forgot what it's like to have a confidante, a person you can rely on, someone to split the bills with and plan for the future. He's also been a great support with family issues as I have with him. Also forgot what it's like to have a physical relationship, not just sex which I adore but cuddles, kisses and hugs.

So overall I would say keep looking and be open to different age/types of men.

Best of luck! X

@liska5 you can search without it being desperate though. Your manic energy is bouncing off the page.

How long have you actually spent single since you were 18? You are 40, have had a combined total of 20 years long term relationships and have just had a dating experience of a few weeks based on your other thread.

I think you may be being a little pessimistic tbh because you’ve barely spent any time properly single as an adult yet you seem to have decided it’s next to impossible to find a new relationship.

yes you do appear to be overthinking it

I mean you’ve been divorced, changed jobs, moved countries and are single parenting as well as COVID. Don’t you think that’s quite enough for now rather than getting obsessed reading a ton of dating books and throwing yourself into online dating and relationships?

Why don’t you just pause a bit and get used to being a single adult?

Which part of Switzerland are you in? Those books are only even slightly relevant to the culture and social circle they were written in. Think about the UK: dating in central London is going to have quite a different etiquette to Liverpool or the Cotswolds.

My experience is that French speaking areas expect men to do a lot of chasing and women to be quite passive (so if he's not chasing, he's not interested). In contrast, Germanic people expect women to pull their weight and signal their enthusiasm. I prefer the latter, because it makes for much less harassment. If you go to somewhere like Zürich, there's ansex imbalance with lots of men working in banking and industry, so there are sooo many single men around.

I was pretty much single for my entire adult life, and spent years on and off online dating sites, so I really get how very frustrating it is. I met my BF when I was 45 and he was 47, and we’ve been together just over a year, so there are lovely guys out there, but I met an awful lot of not lovely guys before meeting him.

As pp have said, the (common) message of the books that is worth taking from them is the fact that when you do meet someone, it shouldn’t feel like hard work. So it’s not about who calls who first, but about whether it feels like both of you are putting in equal effort.

I read a very helpful quote on the dating thread here a few months before I met my BF and it really resonated: “if they like you, you’ll know, if they don’t, you’ll be confused”.

Wishing you the best of luck OP.

The advice has to be taken in context.
A lot of men will have sex with women that they don't really have any other interest in if they don't have to do any work.
Effort is the bare minimum because the vast majority of men men are not getting overt romantic approaches by women (unless they're public figures).
They learn from an early age that they are expected to make the first move and push things forward in the early stages.
If they're not doing that, they're probably not very interested (and this bares out in my experience).
It doesn't account for the more timid or less "romantically successful" guys though. It also probably doesn't apply as much after a certain age.

I met my partner when I was 54 (yikes) he was 46. We met doing something we actively enjoyed and took it from there. Prior to that I had a few dates from Tinder & PoF, met some nice guys.

OP, if you don't already ski, learn next year and join a FB group & just meet people. Or snowshoe, or run, cycle, but if you share an interest to begin with it's a good start.

I read that book and took it very differently. I think it was aimed more towards women who wasting spending lots of time pursuing men who just weren’t giving anything substantial back. The message I took from it was not that women shouldn’t go after someone they found attractive, but that they shouldn’t be making all of the effort, all of the time. It needs to be reciprocated. A perfect example was a thread on here the other day where the man a poster was seeing was stringing along several women at the same time. The message that book would have given her was that if he isn’t making you his priority, then don’t make him yours.

I think the point is you DONT sit around waiting for Prince Charming to pursue you. You get on, happily, with your busy full life and your many interests and if he texts you/calls you and you are interested in him, you will do your best to find a date/time that suits you as well as him. If he doesnt get in contact with you after a while then his loss, you have already moved on even if he later decides to contact you. It is possible to fake this of course, but it is much much better to make it real by finding things you enjoy doing (even if it is just knitting at home, it doesnt have to be skydiving).

And yes, if we did live in an entirely equal society where men and women had been socialised the same it would be lovely and it would make as much sense for women to pursue men. But as another poster said, we dont and men have been taught that if they are interested in someone they should make the first move. If they arent behaving in a way that shows interest they probably arent that bothered. The difference though is that men are more likely to see/sleep with/date women they arent that interested in as a stop gap and no-one wants to be a stop gap. So to avoid this dont date men that havent shown that they actually like you.

Agree with date widely and lightly. Just go out with lots of men! Looking for the one, and having checklists about how old the kids are etc is a highway to disappointment. Also, don't always assume that what men say they want is what they want. A 40 year old man probably pictures himself with a 32 year old woman with no kids, but ends up falling for a 46 year old with 3 ! Life is unpredictable.
And definitely, if you feel you are chasing then you ARE chasing. Value yourself, do not give men you barely know "chances" - take them entirely at face value, based on how they treat you.