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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Argument with husband over eldest child (his stepson). Not sure how to handle this.

53 replies

Chairleg1 · 21/12/2020 14:44

My eldest child is not my husband’s biological son. He has lived with us from the age of four so has been his stepdad for nine years. For background, my husband is usually great and we argue rarely. My son is lovely but can be intense. Has had camhs referrals in the past and we have teenage attitude etc now on top. His relationship with his dad causes lots of issues with him and he’s obviously very insecure in how his dad feels about him. I dislike his dad due to his behaviour throughout his life and find it difficult to navigate this when my son worships him, seemingly to win his approval. It breaks my heart.

Son has just come back from his dad’s house. I asked a question about logistics for his dad’s next visit and my son could tell that I was unhappy (relating to his dad apparently breaking COVID rules, exposing us to loads more people and potentially putting our plans at risk. This has happened a lot.) That started my son off, sort of going into defence mode about his dad because I was unhappy about his dad’s apparent plans. Telling me he doesn’t want to live with me etc. I think I shouldn’t have asked so soon when he came back because he’s always quite emotional and upset when he comes back and knows me well enough to know when I’m annoyed at his dad, even if I don’t say it. These outbursts are partly due to him being quite OTT anyway, but he now has teenage hormones, doesn’t seem to sleep well at his dad’s and comes back exhausted and emotional. I left it and said I’d talk to his dad about it.

I came downstairs and vented to my husband about the argument within minutes of him walking through the door. I feel a bit like his punching bag at times and I find it really difficult to cope with. I walk away from arguments with him second guessing myself, worrying that I should have been more stern or that I handled it wrong. I said that I was annoyed he’d just behaved like a right arsehole to me, telling me he wouldn’t live with me anymore and kicking his furniture. Probably sounds extreme but he still has tantrums a bit like a toddler at times. I’ve become desensitised to him flailing around and writhing on the floor. I’ve tried many things over the years to deal with this but nothing has worked and camhs have discharged him, telling me that they didn’t want to diagnose him with anything because he isn’t bad enough to need medication and a diagnosis can mean a child accepts the label and nothing improves... but that he has symptoms of OCD, anxiety, an impulse control disorder and ADD and it will probably get worse during his teenage years Hmm. In actual fact, a lot of things have improved and he controls himself much better at school than at home. He never shows any kind of negative emotions in front of his dad so it all comes out with me.

In my opinion, that was me venting to my husband about a situation and then possibly discussing how to deal with it. I don’t know if I have cause this situation by using the word arsehole and I feel crap that I did. He then said “I don’t know why you’re surprised, he IS an arsehole. That’s his personality”. Which I think is a completely different thing. Took issue with it straight away and challenged it. He told me that I just said exactly the same thing. In my mind, the two are very different. I was expressing my frustration at what had just happened and his behaviour, he was just insulting my son. I really don’t know if that is my fault for using the word arsehole. I shouldn’t have done it.

Husband wouldn’t really explain himself and just said that I’d said exactly the same thing. He got annoyed that I was pushing for him to explain himself. He said that my son should know what his dad is like by now and basically that it shouldn’t be affecting him. That he’d credited him with more intelligence than that, but clearly got it wrong. He’s just turned thirteen. He is a child with a child’s brain who doesn’t have the emotional maturity or the perspective to analyse his relationship with his own dad. I was absolutely incredulous and told my husband that his feelings and behaviours towards his dad are entirely normal for a child in this situation and that my husband is actually the person lacking in intelligence and emotional maturity for thinking that a young teenager has the same brain as an adult. He refused to discuss anymore. He often seems to think he can opt out of a discussion because he doesn’t want to have it right now and I’m forcing the conversation on him, but if he’s going to say that then I’m not going to schedule in a discussion. I’m going to challenge it there and then. He refused to say much more, I just got a few deadpan responses of “oh right” and “sorry”. But it’s not genuine. It not the first time he has expressed the opinion that my son shouldn’t be affected by his relationship with his dad. I mentioned this and said that he clearly wasn’t sorry and didn’t take on board anything I’d said in the past because he still thinks this way. He’s also insulting my son by saying that he is thick and that if he was intelligent enough, he wouldn’t be bothered by this.

I’m shell shocked. No idea what to say or do. He is usually mildly passive aggressive or will just try to brush things under the carpet and act as though it didn’t happen. He angrily cleaned around me for a while not really responding to anything I said, so I left the room and told him I was disgusted by what he’d just said. I’ve had a shower and come down to find he has taken our younger child out. My eldest son thinks he did tell him that he was going out for a bit and to let me know but wasn’t fully listening and can’t remember. He would never usually take him out without telling me or saying bye, so it is related to our argument.

No idea where to go from here. I am so angry that a grown man would imply that it is my son’s own fault that he is so upset and has tangled up feelings towards his dad after constantly being let down and rejected by him. Not just any grown man, my husband, the person I have him sharing a home with. I’ve previously told him that he should educate himself by reading up on the brain of a teenager and why it isn’t the same as an adults, or just look at the damage a messed up relationship with a parent is still causing people who are now adults. But he’s clearly ignored me and thinks my son should be over this by now. Where do I go from here??

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 21/12/2020 15:10

So in essence, you're allowed to criticise your DS, but your dh isn’t.
Not only does your DS struggle with the relationship with his dad, but then comes home to you asking him about what’s gone on, and clearly showing annoyance at your ex. No wonder he’s having a hard time! Your DS IS behaving like an arsehole, but its hardly surprising. Most teenagers can be arseholes at the best of times - your DS has had a difficult childhood that’s still difficult for him.
Stop interrogating him about his DF. Accept that your ex may well do things differently than you, but there’s not a lot you can do about it. Stop taking sides with him against your partner, children aren’t always right!

CherryDocsInYrBalls · 21/12/2020 15:20

You were labelling his behaviour, your husband was labelling him, that's horrible for your son. Don't ask your child about the logistics of his dad's visit. Sort it out with his dad. Rein in the annoyance because your son is clearly picking up on it

GingerbreadPlease · 21/12/2020 15:21

I have to agree with some of what @Soontobe60 says.

And timing. He's come home, and you've got into this whilst, as you say, he's tired and emotional. Then you get annoyed and vent, your husband vents, then you're annoyed with him and he's annoyed with you.

I'd let everyone cool down.

Aquamarine1029 · 21/12/2020 15:26

So in essence, you're allowed to criticise your DS, but your dh isn’t.

My thoughts, as well. You can say your son is an arsehole, but your husband can't?

He told me that I just said exactly the same thing. In my mind, the two are very different.

Now you're expecting your husband to read your mind and instinctively know what you really mean.

I came downstairs and vented to my husband about the argument within minutes of him walking through the door.

Doing this almost always leads to hard feelings or an argument. No one wants to be jumped on with whinging and moaning the second they walk through the door, and that applies to your son as well. You interrogated him about his dad the minute he got home, no wonder he responded badly to you.

I don't think you husband is completely in the right, but I do think he is fed up with all this drama surrounding your son and your ex.

AgentJohnson · 21/12/2020 15:26

Your son shouldn’t have to deal with your annoyance with his father and your DH shouldn’t have to tiptoe around your understandable annoyance with your son.

I understand your parental defensiveness but do you think you are the only one who finds your son’s behaviour challenging? Do you think you are the only one whose allowed an opinion on said behaviour?

It sounds like you were looking for a fight in both instances.

Sparklfairy · 21/12/2020 15:28

You sound like a nightmare tbh. Get annoyed at your ex, create an atmosphere for your DS when he comes home which clearly happens often enough that the poor child anticipates it, then go into a tirade at your DH about both of them.

I had a similar family dynamic. As a child it's horrible. Every time I'd come home from dad's my mum would make us all miserable with the tension and tantrums (she had no DH to vent at).

Control yourself around your child and stop bleeding emotionally all over your DH.

Yellowcar2 · 21/12/2020 15:30

As others have said you called your son an arsehole and then think it's disgusting that DH said the same. Confused

AliceMcK · 21/12/2020 15:38

Agree with all of the above. All roads lead back to you op, you need to check your own behaviour first.

FairyontopofthetreeBatman · 21/12/2020 15:38

This will probably be unpopular but I kind of see your husband’s side. He is probably sick to death of seeing you used as a punchbag. He used the same word that you did. He may even have thought that he was empathising with you by mirroring your words back.

If your DS is in a mood and you are angry at him I’m not really surprised he has gone out.

Probably best to let everyone cool off.

Alicenwonderland · 21/12/2020 15:49

I get where you're coming from as I was in a very similar situation. I don't think we know enough from your post to truly analyse the situation. In my case I had two boys with additional needs and their step-dad struggled to cope. I was very confused by the situation but as time went on my ex became more and more aggressive and nasty about the boys, started picking fights and goading them. We spilt shortly after he tried to strangle one of them! I have a feeling from your post that maybe there's more here than you've written about. If this is a one off then it's understandable. I get why you're hurt about what he said, you were venting and didn't expect your partner to say what he did, you possibly expected him to sympathise and calm you down.

HotSince63 · 21/12/2020 15:56

Honestly, you just sound like you were out for an argument, interrogating your son and visibly showing your annoyance at his dad from the minute your son walked through the door and once you were done with him you started with your husband the minute he walked through the door.

Maybe you should let your son and husband actually get in the house and decompress a little, before you start on them.

ErickBroch · 21/12/2020 16:05

I see both sides. As a child of divorced parents I don't think you should have been complaining to your 13yo about his dad/covid restrictions especially when you repeatedly say how much he defends his dad. You are gaining nothing. My mum and dad probably had endless annoyances with each other but both kept it from me so I never had to hear it/was put in the middle. The odd occasion I was - it makes you feel like shit.

I agree him saying he's an arsehole is not great but teenagers can be a pain in the arse and he also lives with him. You admit you vented as soon as he walked in through the door so he was probably just trying to agree with what you were saying.

You vented to your husband and then quickly turned on the defensive and wouldn't let it go - I am not surprised he went out.

Chairleg1 · 21/12/2020 16:15

Yes, I think that’s how my husband sees it. I think there is quite a big difference between saying I didn’t like how he had just behaved and saying that my son is just a horrible person . I’m getting this feeling of resentment towards eldest from him quite a lot in general at the moment and it’s making me feel on edge but he denies it whenever I bring it up. He doesn’t make this language distinction with either of the children and I don’t like it.

The situation with ex isn’t that I questioned him about his dad. I was asking my son what he might like to do in terms of seeing his dad over Christmas, which days or times. I have tried to sort it and not got anywhere. I think he is old enough to have a say and it needs sorting ASAP. He seemed in good spirits when he came back so I asked him what he’d like to do. He then told me about their plans to visit many people. He’s not a young child anymore - I can give a neutral response or outright lie as much as I like, but he knows that it’s actually against the law and I won’t be pleased about it. I certainly didn’t tantrum or cause tension. I don’t question him about his dad and I don’t initiate discussions but he does tell me things and obviously feels guilty when he does that. I really didn’t think it would be an issue to ask what he fancies doing, although with hindsight I should have waited a bit, and I think some posters are getting the wrong end of the stick. I do take on board that I need to hide my feelings better but I don’t know what I’m doing in the first place to hide. I think it’s just the way that you pick things up about the people that you live with very easily and they don’t need to say or do anything, but you can still tell. It’s really hard not to feel angry when my son is upset and it must be my body language or something which he is picking up on.

My main issue really is with this idea that my husband has that my eldest should be able to see through his dad’s behaviour and not be affected by any of this. That he is only so upset by it because he’s too stupid to see what’s going on. He’s mentioned it a few times in discussions where I’m worried about him and he’ll say “I thought he was more intelligent than that”. I don’t see how intelligence comes into it and I think he has absolutely no insight into how my son is feeling. I think it’s pain nasty. He seems to be able to show empathy for other people but has very little understanding for my son and the complex emotions he will have. I’m not sure what else to say to him about it because I can’t believe he’s expecting adult behaviour from a kid who’s sad about his dad. Sometimes my son will come and moan to me about his dad and what he’s done, pointing out that he’s let him down again or he doesn’t believe what he’s told him, and my husband seems to think that that’s that then - It’s all sorted, son totally gets it and has accepted it and everything will be fine from now on. Or there is a situation where he is unhappy with something his dad did but didn’t say anything to his dad and only tells me afterwards. That seems completely normal to me - he doesn’t actually feel comfortable enough with his dad to disagree with him or say no and it’s a big deal for a kid to do that to any adult, let alone their parent who they don’t have the strongest relationship with. He’s acting as though feeling like that is some kind of character flaw in my son.

OP posts:
Chairleg1 · 21/12/2020 16:22

Sorry, my husband was here all along. He hadn’t just walked through the door. I meant that I was talking to my husband about how my son had not long been back and we’d had an argument. I was frustrated by what had happened from just trying to ask one question and often discuss this stuff with my husband afterwards - maybe I did something wrong, how to handle this situation in future etc. I didn’t expect him to turn around and say that. I was venting after what had happened, he was completely calm and said that. It shocked me.

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 21/12/2020 16:22

Do you think it's possible you are unloading too much on your husband regarding the issues you're having with your son and ex? Being someone's sounding board can be very overwhelming and exhausting, especially when you're not able to do anything about it.

Chairleg1 · 21/12/2020 16:37

I don’t think so. My husband is just as frustrated with things. Ex has only been more involved for the past few years so he’s seen it all.

I feel like my husband is lacking in emotional maturity. It just feels like he was unprepared for a teenager. My son was so easy when he was little and they got on so well. And they still do now in general. But he seems to have no understanding of what is normal teenage behaviour or what would be a normal way for him to feel. I mean, I’m not prepared for a teenager! Who is?? I am constantly second guessing myself. But he isn’t second guessing himself at all, he’s blaming my son for what I feel are understandable emotions. We had a situation a few months back where my son told my husband “you’re not even my dad”. He seemed to be sort of joking, it wasn’t during an argument, just a sort of jokey discussion about games, and I feel like my husband was actually starting to get a bit sharp during it. My husband massively overreacted, shouted at him, asked him who he thinks has bloody been there for him and raised him and stormed out of the room. My son just looked shocked and I had to smooth it over. I can understand how the comment would have hurt but I think it’s a comment which teenagers in this situation are likely to say. He regularly says horrible things to me but I understand that it is a phase he is going through whereas he acts as though it’s because he’s an unusually horrible person. I’ve tried getting him to think back to how he felt as a teenager and how you really do feel that the world is against you and you know everything, but he claims to have never felt that way. And every time, we talk about it and it seems to be sorted, but it’s clearly not because I feel like I’m dealing with the same situation over and over,

OP posts:
AnneLovesGilbert · 21/12/2020 16:49

You’re completely forgetting he’s not his dad, he doesn’t share your unconditional love and tbh your son sounds like a pain in the arse, you clearly find him extremely difficult yourself, so you need to stop expecting your husband to handle it better than you do.

He HAS been the father figure there for your son, he’s not the perfect parent but who is. You have absolutely no idea how hurtful he’ll have found your son’s truthful but nasty point about him not being his dad. Of course he’s not his bloody dad, the incessant crap he’s hearing about your ex from your son and from you will be a frequent reminder of that. And yet he’s the one who’s always there while your ex is useless. You show no attempt to summon up any insight into how hard this all might be for your husband. No wonder he’s frustrated, hurt, angry, resentful and had enough. If you regularly need to offload about how awful your ex is then find someone else to do it on, a friend or a therapist. You’re expecting far too much of your husband.

FATEdestiny · 21/12/2020 16:58

FYI - my son was an arsehole at just turned 13 years old. My husband (his Dad) would fully agree. His whole personality was that of an arsehole. He WAS an arsehole. I could be pedantic and say "his behaviour" was that of an arsehole. But honestly... teenagers are arsehole.

Pleased to report that he is 15 now and is adorable again - grown out of the arsehole phase and is loving, kind, funny, mature and non-arseholey anymore.

Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

Give your DH a break.

Aquamarine1029 · 21/12/2020 17:01

You show no attempt to summon up any insight into how hard this all might be for your husband. No wonder he’s frustrated, hurt, angry, resentful and had enough. If you regularly need to offload about how awful your ex is then find someone else to do it on, a friend or a therapist. You’re expecting far too much of your husband.

I agree 100%. Your husband is at the end of his tether, and all you do is make excuses for your son. He may be 13, but he should still be held responsible for his horrible behaviour and hurtful words. That awful comment about your husband not being his dad was probably the last straw.

JillofTrades · 21/12/2020 17:16

So your son behaves like one frequently and along with his frequently bad behaviour yet your husband is not supposed to have an opinion? Given that your dh is a part of the household, is he allowed to have any feelings or just put up and not say anything. You vented first. Your dh has to also bear the brunt of these outbursts.

IseeIsee · 21/12/2020 17:19

It all seems quite toxic. My father used to complain about our DM and then if we agreed, he would attack us "for speaking about your Mother like that". He said it was different for him. He seemed to have the same skewed logic you do. Also he was feeding into her behaviour. You are probably doing the same

JillofTrades · 21/12/2020 17:22

Wow so you are actually trying to justify your son's jokey comment? That is incredibly hurtful and I can completely understand why he 'overreacted' according to you. You seem to be in denial about your son's words and actions and expect your husband to just accept it because he is a child. So he is able to do, say and get away with anything - your dh sounds fed up and I don't blame him.

Amotherlife · 21/12/2020 17:34

I totally get what you mean about the way you and your DH used the same word differently. I work with children and there's a saying about describing the behaviour not the child, which is what you did.

However 'arsehole' was a very emotive word to use - better to describe the behaviour in more factual language - 'challenging' or 'difficult', for instance.

Once the emotional temperature of a situation gets raised, it us hard for participants not to be 'infected' by it. So your DH was responding to your mood levels, and if he is not a professional working with children nor well informed about managing difficult behaviour, he may well have believed he was only mirroring what you said.

Teens can be very rude, aggressive and confrontational. As parents, it can be hard to deal with in the moment and worse if there are two of you not quite seeing eye to eye. It also leaves you with a feeling of not quite being in control which can lead to impulsive behaviour and words spoken in haste that you later regret.

I'd say cut yourself AND your DH some slack. I suspect he 1. Was trying to support you and 2. Finds your son's behaviours difficult.

Apologise to him (DH) and forgive him for lashing out. If he is otherwise a good parent to his stepson and wants to support you with parenting him, you need to discuss together how you will deal with his moods and behaviours.

cordelia16 · 21/12/2020 17:40

Agree with everything @AnneLovesGilbert said.

Just curious: Do you ever take your husband's side? My DH and I don't get along very well, but if one of our kids ever disrespects the other, we call them out on it immediately and show that we are a united front. Your DS should not have carte blanche to say whatever he wants to your husband just because he's not his "father." Every time your DS says that, you should pull him up on it. It's rude and hurtful.

Amotherlife · 21/12/2020 17:42

Also instead of seeing your husband as having no empathy for your son, ask him how he views things and gently explain how a teen isn't going to be rational about his own father.

Family therapy would help if this situation escalates- difficult teen behaviour could possibly lead to a break down of your marriage otherwise. At 13 you have got a good few years to go and it sounds like you are already not on the ' same page'.

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