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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Argument with husband over eldest child (his stepson). Not sure how to handle this.

53 replies

Chairleg1 · 21/12/2020 14:44

My eldest child is not my husband’s biological son. He has lived with us from the age of four so has been his stepdad for nine years. For background, my husband is usually great and we argue rarely. My son is lovely but can be intense. Has had camhs referrals in the past and we have teenage attitude etc now on top. His relationship with his dad causes lots of issues with him and he’s obviously very insecure in how his dad feels about him. I dislike his dad due to his behaviour throughout his life and find it difficult to navigate this when my son worships him, seemingly to win his approval. It breaks my heart.

Son has just come back from his dad’s house. I asked a question about logistics for his dad’s next visit and my son could tell that I was unhappy (relating to his dad apparently breaking COVID rules, exposing us to loads more people and potentially putting our plans at risk. This has happened a lot.) That started my son off, sort of going into defence mode about his dad because I was unhappy about his dad’s apparent plans. Telling me he doesn’t want to live with me etc. I think I shouldn’t have asked so soon when he came back because he’s always quite emotional and upset when he comes back and knows me well enough to know when I’m annoyed at his dad, even if I don’t say it. These outbursts are partly due to him being quite OTT anyway, but he now has teenage hormones, doesn’t seem to sleep well at his dad’s and comes back exhausted and emotional. I left it and said I’d talk to his dad about it.

I came downstairs and vented to my husband about the argument within minutes of him walking through the door. I feel a bit like his punching bag at times and I find it really difficult to cope with. I walk away from arguments with him second guessing myself, worrying that I should have been more stern or that I handled it wrong. I said that I was annoyed he’d just behaved like a right arsehole to me, telling me he wouldn’t live with me anymore and kicking his furniture. Probably sounds extreme but he still has tantrums a bit like a toddler at times. I’ve become desensitised to him flailing around and writhing on the floor. I’ve tried many things over the years to deal with this but nothing has worked and camhs have discharged him, telling me that they didn’t want to diagnose him with anything because he isn’t bad enough to need medication and a diagnosis can mean a child accepts the label and nothing improves... but that he has symptoms of OCD, anxiety, an impulse control disorder and ADD and it will probably get worse during his teenage years Hmm. In actual fact, a lot of things have improved and he controls himself much better at school than at home. He never shows any kind of negative emotions in front of his dad so it all comes out with me.

In my opinion, that was me venting to my husband about a situation and then possibly discussing how to deal with it. I don’t know if I have cause this situation by using the word arsehole and I feel crap that I did. He then said “I don’t know why you’re surprised, he IS an arsehole. That’s his personality”. Which I think is a completely different thing. Took issue with it straight away and challenged it. He told me that I just said exactly the same thing. In my mind, the two are very different. I was expressing my frustration at what had just happened and his behaviour, he was just insulting my son. I really don’t know if that is my fault for using the word arsehole. I shouldn’t have done it.

Husband wouldn’t really explain himself and just said that I’d said exactly the same thing. He got annoyed that I was pushing for him to explain himself. He said that my son should know what his dad is like by now and basically that it shouldn’t be affecting him. That he’d credited him with more intelligence than that, but clearly got it wrong. He’s just turned thirteen. He is a child with a child’s brain who doesn’t have the emotional maturity or the perspective to analyse his relationship with his own dad. I was absolutely incredulous and told my husband that his feelings and behaviours towards his dad are entirely normal for a child in this situation and that my husband is actually the person lacking in intelligence and emotional maturity for thinking that a young teenager has the same brain as an adult. He refused to discuss anymore. He often seems to think he can opt out of a discussion because he doesn’t want to have it right now and I’m forcing the conversation on him, but if he’s going to say that then I’m not going to schedule in a discussion. I’m going to challenge it there and then. He refused to say much more, I just got a few deadpan responses of “oh right” and “sorry”. But it’s not genuine. It not the first time he has expressed the opinion that my son shouldn’t be affected by his relationship with his dad. I mentioned this and said that he clearly wasn’t sorry and didn’t take on board anything I’d said in the past because he still thinks this way. He’s also insulting my son by saying that he is thick and that if he was intelligent enough, he wouldn’t be bothered by this.

I’m shell shocked. No idea what to say or do. He is usually mildly passive aggressive or will just try to brush things under the carpet and act as though it didn’t happen. He angrily cleaned around me for a while not really responding to anything I said, so I left the room and told him I was disgusted by what he’d just said. I’ve had a shower and come down to find he has taken our younger child out. My eldest son thinks he did tell him that he was going out for a bit and to let me know but wasn’t fully listening and can’t remember. He would never usually take him out without telling me or saying bye, so it is related to our argument.

No idea where to go from here. I am so angry that a grown man would imply that it is my son’s own fault that he is so upset and has tangled up feelings towards his dad after constantly being let down and rejected by him. Not just any grown man, my husband, the person I have him sharing a home with. I’ve previously told him that he should educate himself by reading up on the brain of a teenager and why it isn’t the same as an adults, or just look at the damage a messed up relationship with a parent is still causing people who are now adults. But he’s clearly ignored me and thinks my son should be over this by now. Where do I go from here??

OP posts:
RUOKHon · 21/12/2020 17:53

You show no attempt to summon up any insight into how hard this all might be for your husband. No wonder he’s frustrated, hurt, angry, resentful and had enough. If you regularly need to offload about how awful your ex is then find someone else to do it on, a friend or a therapist. You’re expecting far too much of your husband

This is right. Sounds like your husband has been in your son’s life as a father figure for some years now. And your ex is fairly recently back on the scene and back in your son’s life? So now your family dynamic is revolving around your son’s upset at his dad being flaky, and you expect your DH to just suck it up and tolerate your son acting like an arsehole (your word) towards him and saying things like ‘you’re not my dad’. How hurtful after all he’s done.

I agree with whoever said it sounds like he’s sick of all the drama and you making excuses for your son’s poor behaviour and your ex being a bellend and impacting your whole family.

If your DH posted things from his side, I suspect most people would tell him he had a DW problem.

Nowaynothappening · 21/12/2020 18:01

Can understand all perspectives. You know how your DS feels when he returns from a visit to his Dad’s so probably best to just leave him alone for a while before you start quizzing or lecturing him in some way. Lesson learnt for the future, just don’t bug him when he first gets home. He’s only 13, it’s so young and sounds like he has a difficult relationship with his Dad. You need to cut him more slack imo. Not saying he should treat you like shit by any means but you could help by not jumping on him when you know he’ll already be feeling emotional. Also, if you have any issues with his Dad’s parenting it’s best to take it up with him rather than your DS.

Your DH has been around since he was a young child so not a new relationship. He’s obviously had to deal with your son’s mood swings over the years and has witnessed you being treat like shit too. It can’t be easy to stand back and remain neutral so often. I don’t think it meant any harm with his comments fwiw, it’s hard to listen to someone venting like you did and keep a neutral tone.

Candyfloss99 · 21/12/2020 18:08

You sound like hard work and quite toxic. What did you want your husband to do? Do you think he likes hearing about your ex as soon as he walks in the door? Did you want him to agree with you that your son is an asshole or stick up for him? It sounds like he can't say anything right.

hadesinahalfahell · 21/12/2020 18:26

You actually sound like a Disney mum. How far do you intend to go in justifying and excusing your son's bad behaviour? A large part of the reason for my last relationship ending was because my ex patented in the same way as you and the teen step children just grew to become ruder, more entitled, and worse behaved by the day.

Arrivederla · 21/12/2020 18:41

Gosh, I see this completely differently from most of the posters on here. Confused

I completely agree with you saying that there is a massive difference between saying that someone is behaving like an arsehole (ie at this particular moment in time but not always) and that they are an arsehole (a basic part of their personality).

I think your dh is either totally lacking in any emotional insight and awareness or is feeling very resentful towards your son - only you can really know which.

Whatever the answer, your dh is not someone who really sees things in the same way you do unfortunately and probably not someone you can really open up to about your son. I feel for you; this must be a difficult realisation.

SandyY2K · 22/12/2020 01:43

I think the use of the word arsehole made this escalate. You could have simply said he was being difficult or a pain in the neck.

I do agree that saying things like he thought your DS was more intelligent in relation to his dad's behaviour is uncalled for and it's not nice.

I actually think him joining in on criticism is unhelpful...far better to say something like 'I understand what you mean or how you feel '

Its like someone having a moan about their mum...you certainly don't need your spouse piling in as well about how she's such an awful person.

Vent to someone else if you can...your DH is clearly not the best person to hear it. I do understand where you're coming from....and there is a big difference between the behaviour and the person.

Its like telling your child you don't like their behaviour...rather than you don't like them because of the behaviour.

Unfortunately, some people don't quite get the difference and this thread has shown your DH isn't alone in that respect.

Nicolastuffedone · 22/12/2020 04:33

Maybe your DH is fed up with the toddler tantrums, kicking furniture, flailing arms and the writhing around on the floor.....I know I would be

BluntAndToThePoint80 · 22/12/2020 06:12

Can someone explain the difference here between being an arsehole and behaving like one ? Because it seems to me a bit like a pointless line.

Surely if the OP’s DS frequently/consistently behaves like an arsehole, then he is one ? I’m sure he’ll grow and develop, and with that his behaviour will change, but at the moment he sounds like an arsehole to me ?

The OP’s DH has previously had a good relationship with the boy, so it’s not like he hates the kid or has treated him badly. It sounds to me like he’s struggling now with his attitude and disrespect, while the OP doesn’t want to acknowledge it and looks to justify her DS’s bad behaviour with a variety of excuses (from undiagnosed MH conditions to problems with his dad) rather than pick up her son on his behaviour.

I suspect there’s a happy medium here - the OP needs to stop excusing her son’s bad behaviour, tantrums and awful comments, but the DH also needs to understand that teenagers are not the same as adults and do need support.

whatwedontknow · 22/12/2020 06:16

I think you are struggling and blaming everyone else. Your ex, your son, your husband, CAMHS. Do you have to analyse everything so much?

I had a very similar set up a DS with a father who rarely bothered meaning my DS felt rejected and craved his attention. A CAMHS referral which really went nowhere. My DH doing his best to be a stepdad from age 3 and me juggling it.

I went for counselling, talked it through, learned how to manage my expectations, what I could change and what I couldn’t.

It does seem like you are creating some of the issues. You actually come across as a bully, venting is one thing but challenging him, telling him he is disgusting and to educate himself? Also your DH can actually opt out of a discussion if he doesn’t want to have it right now.

My DS has never said to my DH you’re not even my dad, he would get short shrift from me if he did and yet you take your sons side. Yes your DH is an adult but it doesn’t mean that he can’t be hurt by a DSS who he has taken responsibility for, provided for and been there for.

Knowing that child would still prefer and want the man who has done very little can be a hard fact to deal with. You venting off just reminds him of that fact. And yet you demand that he responds with empathy and intelligence. Maybe you could try some of that yourself?

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/12/2020 06:18

It sounds as if everyone was letting off steam and you decided to blame your husband. He’s still with you and has been for 10 years despite being a stepdad a child with some kind of additional needs and by your own admittance, difficult. Many many men would have run a mile long ago, especially when you’re allowing your ds to behave poorly.

The difficult years of parenting are upon you. No one and I mean no one covered themselves in glory. Own your part instead of blaming your dh and your ex. If you want the communication to be better, you are going to have to step up.

You’re already allowing your ds to say very hurtful things to your dh and your ds definitely needs to be pulled up for this. I think if you want things to be better, you also need to apologise to your dh for hounding him. Just because you can see things from your ds’s POV so much easier, it is unfair to expect so much from your dh. If you sat down calmly and came up with a plan, which includes allowing the other to let off steam from time to time, life would probably be a lot easier.

Bottom line, there seems to be so much drama and blame in your family op. Have you heard of the Karpman drama triangle? The drama is kept alive by players constantly switching roles, creating a toxic environment.

Argument with husband over eldest child (his stepson). Not sure how to handle this.
Mummyoflittledragon · 22/12/2020 06:23

@BluntAndToThePoint80

Can someone explain the difference here between being an arsehole and behaving like one ? Because it seems to me a bit like a pointless line.

Surely if the OP’s DS frequently/consistently behaves like an arsehole, then he is one ? I’m sure he’ll grow and develop, and with that his behaviour will change, but at the moment he sounds like an arsehole to me ?

The OP’s DH has previously had a good relationship with the boy, so it’s not like he hates the kid or has treated him badly. It sounds to me like he’s struggling now with his attitude and disrespect, while the OP doesn’t want to acknowledge it and looks to justify her DS’s bad behaviour with a variety of excuses (from undiagnosed MH conditions to problems with his dad) rather than pick up her son on his behaviour.

I suspect there’s a happy medium here - the OP needs to stop excusing her son’s bad behaviour, tantrums and awful comments, but the DH also needs to understand that teenagers are not the same as adults and do need support.

It’s the difference between calling certain behaviour arsehole behaviour and calling someone an arsehole, ie the essence of their being. Ie behaviour can be changed. A person cannot. Albeit people often don’t mean the entire person. It is especially damaging to call a child an arsehole or any negative descriptive as they don’t yet have the skills or authority to process and react appropriately, which can lead to lifelong self esteem issues etc.
BluntAndToThePoint80 · 22/12/2020 06:45

@Mummyoflittledragon

I get what you’re saying, but the DH didn’t say this to the boy. He was letting off steam with his wife and was probably speaking freely/ not carefully monitoring his exact use of precise language in the way I do when speaking to my kids. The OP seems to be focused on her DH’s precise use of language rather than focusing on the real issues.

I think my point is more at what point does it change from someone behaving like an arsehole to actually being an arsehole ? Because if the son continues to behave like an arsehole, no one is going to care about the “essence of his being”.

I’d never suggest anyone ever called a child an arsehole by the way, but if the OP is letting her child get away with awful behaviour it’s going to become a big part of his personality, which he might not be able to change so easily, and that is doing the child no favours when he has to deal with people outside of the house who won’t be so forgiving or understanding.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/12/2020 06:58

@BluntAndToThePoint80

I thought you really were asking the difference...maybe not? Either way I am in agreement with you post to me. No one is going to care about the subtle difference if her ds continues. He sounds quite a handful. I get op’s dh was letting off steam, which should be allowed from time to time and very different from doing it to the child’s face.

CatbearAmo · 22/12/2020 07:08

Mother vents to son - doesn't get the response she is looking for, thinks he's an arsehole
Mother vents to dh - doesn't get the response she is looking for, thinks he's insensitive and being unreasonable
Mother vents to Mumsnet- doesn't get the answer she is looking for...
Op I think you are being unreasonable and remind me of my own mother. She would get a bee in her bonnet and go around the house finding people to pick fights with until she found someone to agree with her. Eventually we would pretend to agree just to get a break. Always had to feel "wronged" by something.

How about you go and give your son a cuddle and say you understand what he's feeling. Then give your dh a cuddle and say you understand what he's feeling. Then enjoy a peaceful rest of the week without letting yourself get wrapped up in arguments. Surely this will just go on forever if you keep hunting out people to agree with you

thelegohooverer · 22/12/2020 07:09

Look, you’ve said your piece and he’s said his. So let it settle now. People aren’t static - we take on board other opinions and they influence and shape our thinking. Anger and confrontation cloud the issue because people dig their heels in.

He’s probably not thought much about stages of brain development. Most people don’t. You’ve tickled his brain with a new concept, so give it space now.

I couldn’t successfully vent to my dh either in those circumstances because he is loyal and protective and would take my side and probably say something like yours did! Smile

I can vent to my dm though, who would probably say the exact same thing but mean it differently. She, and I, could call ds an arsehole but hold it in the same mental space as much-loved- grand/son, and we’d both know that. It’s very hard to explain the difference but I get it. DH, criticising the dc (who are his too) triggers my momma bear. I’m absolutely unreasonable in this. But I can imagine it’s more difficult when the other parent is a step parent.

Anyway, my tuppence worth is step back and give this one a bit more time.

lifestooshort123 · 22/12/2020 07:12

Take responsibility for your part in this and cut your DH some slack. Keep your irritation at your ex to yourself and don't share it with your son who is struggling with his own feelings at the moment. Tighten up/start disciplining his behaviour towards your DH who sounds totally fed up with your constant drama so deal with it yourself and don't feel the need to share - I agree with the poster who said you sound like hard work atm.

lyinginthegutterstaringatstars · 22/12/2020 07:21

You called your 13 year old an arsehole and got upset when your dh agreed with you?
You did start it op

Maybe dh is a bit tired of all the arguing?? I think as a step dad he shouldn't be required to read up about how the teenage brain works if he doesn't want to, he has no legal responsibility for a sdc
Also if your ds wants to live with his dad and not you why not let him try that?

Dovesandkisses · 22/12/2020 07:23

I think if your dh has been on the scene since your ds was four then he is entitled to an opinion. Your ds sounds like hard work so it sounds like your dh is putting up with a lot. Yeah, calling your kid an arsehol was wrong- but you called him it first so totally your fault.

lyinginthegutterstaringatstars · 22/12/2020 07:26

@lyinginthegutterstaringatstars

You called your 13 year old an arsehole and got upset when your dh agreed with you? You did start it op

Maybe dh is a bit tired of all the arguing?? I think as a step dad he shouldn't be required to read up about how the teenage brain works if he doesn't want to, he has no legal responsibility for a sdc
Also if your ds wants to live with his dad and not you why not let him try that?

The whole family (inc bio dad) should try some sort of family mediation
IDontMindMarmite · 22/12/2020 07:29

Stop expecting perfect mind reading behaviour from your husband. Your boy sounds like a nightmare right now and your husband is only human. Sounds like you have been brow beating everyone around you.

Arrivederla · 22/12/2020 07:31

@Dovesandkisses

I think if your dh has been on the scene since your ds was four then he is entitled to an opinion. Your ds sounds like hard work so it sounds like your dh is putting up with a lot. Yeah, calling your kid an arsehol was wrong- but you called him it first so totally your fault.
The op didn't call her son an arsehole - she said he was behaving like one (at that moment). The difference between the two sayings has been explained over and over again on this thread so if you still can't see it then I don't know what to say to you really. You sound as lacking in emotional intelligence and awareness as the dh tbh.
2020wish · 22/12/2020 08:30

Ur son is 13 and not 5. Sounds like u need to stop making excuses for him being rude. The comment to ur husband was out of order and should not of been tolerated by you. I agree with all the previous posters stating about ur DH getting fed up.

U say ur son wasn’t diagnosed with those things but shows traits? We all show traits.. esp being teenagers and going through hormonal changes. but it sounds like u have accepted in ur own mind that he does have these conditions against medical professionals and are allowing this as an excuse for ur sons shitty behaviour he is exerting during puberty. Ur husband has raised him and clothed him and fed him while his dad was dead beat until a few years ago but now it’s ok for ur son to say should hurtful comments as a joke?

My daughter is raised by me and me partner who isn’t her biological dad. Her dad is a bit like ur ex... it is a struggle. But by hell If my daughter he through to even say anything like that to the man that has stepped in and been her father I would not be soothing it over with her. She’s knows exactly what my partner does for her against her dad and she will continue to be brought up showing respect for those that raised her

SandyY2K · 22/12/2020 14:58

@Arrivederla

The op didn't call her son an arsehole - she said he was behaving like one (at that moment).

The difference between the two sayings has been explained over and over again on this thread so if you still can't see it then I don't know what to say to you really

I totally agree with you, but basic comprehension eludes some people.

Elsiebear90 · 22/12/2020 15:38

Your son frequently acts like an arsehole, and his mother saying that means he’s probably a hell of lot worse than what you’re presenting to us. So I think you should cut your husband some slack.

You seem to be very keen to excuse his bad behaviour despite him having no formal diagnosis? Most teenagers are arseholes, I was one, and i didn’t have a useless father. However, I think you’re doing him no favours allowing him to be rude and constantly making excuses and defending him because you’re assuming his terrible behaviour is down to him having a condition he hasn’t even been diagnosed with. It sounds like he has a tough time with his dad and that’s causing a lot of his behavioural issues, but instead of defending and excusing him you need to teach him that it’s not acceptable to lash out at other people because he’s hurting, otherwise he will grow up thinking he can use other people as his emotional punchbags.

Goatscheesewithhoney · 22/12/2020 15:42

If you haven’t been able to “sort it” in terms of when your DS seeing his dad over the Christmas period, then you can just leave it and assume your ex isn’t seeing him at all. Leave your DS out of it, he is a child and isn’t responsible for the fact that you and his dad can’t communicate with each other.

Don’t badger DS about what he is or isn’t doing with his dad, and yes, you need to “lie” by adopting a neutral facial expression so he can’t tell you’re annoyed. I’m sure you manage it at work or in social situations.

DS should just come home to a place that is stable and secure and welcoming, not be questioned by you when you clearly don’t like his father - who he happens to love, whether you think he deserves that love or not.

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