High-flying career and difficulties with dating

[StefInTheLandOfCrazy]

Hi everyone, I am feeling a little low today so please go easy on me!

I am 31, never been married and no DC. During the last decade I focused so much of my energy on building a good career, living in different countries, and generally figuring out who I was and what I wanted from life. I have a lot of friends, am in goo shape and nice looking (hope that doesn't sound arrogant but I wanted to give full context!).

However I am starting to suspect that investing so much into my career and in general in my "professional self" has made it somewhat harder to connect with men romantically. In order to grow professionally (I manage a team) I had to learn how to be kind but assertive, and how to communicate clearly and transparently. Overtime my professional successes have also made me more confident in my intellectual abilities, which is awesome of course! I have also put a lot of effort on becoming financially stable and independent, having a pension plan, savings, investments and so on.

I feel like I have a much stronger sense now of who I am in the world, compared to my early and mid 20s. However when I am in a dating context, I feel like I would have more success if I was "sweeter", "nicer", and less driven. I seem to attract a lot of happy-go-lucky types who are looking for a mummy but with very little plans for their lives, but with men who are more similar to me in outlook and goals, I seem to have less luck. I get a lot of matches and go on a lot of dates, but I get a sense that they are looking for someone more lighthearted and free spirited perhaps?

As a disclaimer, I love having a laugh and I have a sense of humour, so I am not some sort of corporate Grinch. However I don't hide the fact that I am very invested in my career, and I guess I tend to bring some parts of my "professional self" into dating as it is such a big part of my identity.

I am starting to wonder if growing into a more mature, successful and secure woman is holding me back from finding love? Has anyone experienced the same? If I sound completely delusional please let me know

Many people struggle to find a suitable partner so at your age I wouldn't find it that unusual. Have you ever had a long term relationship?

Have you met men at similar levels or on same career trajectory and do you meet men at work? I think work is still a likely place to meet men, especially at your age.

However I don't hide the fact that I am very invested in my career, and I guess I tend to bring some parts of my "professional self" into dating as it is such a big part of my identity

This could be a factor, sometimes we can bring a work mask to dates, which isn't fun for the other person.

It's not you, it's all of us. Online dating in particular is tough. It sucks. People find it difficult to make meaningful connections. Online dating did to adults what computer games did to teenagers - attention span of a gnat.

I am free spirited, laid back and find everything a laugh, I'm good looking and sexy, very adventurous, social and a bit of a whirlwind of fun. I have a stable job and finances but I wouldn't describe myself as career driven. I'm 34. Post divorce I haven't been able to find anyone worth having or anything meaningful. I've been thinking I make men worried I'll be a handful in a relationship. That I should try to come across more serious and guarded and less exuberant...

Equally, I haven't felt anything towards anyone, not even a spark of attraction or a crush.. Or anything! I know there are success stories but I just don't think online dating works for most. There's something amiss with the idea and format itself.

After all this trying, I'll probably meet my match in the real world out there. Shame about the lockdowns! Can't wait to ditch the online dating!

I sympathise. You need a strategy as you would for a business project. Ditch Tinder. Check out high end matchmakers. Recognise that your professional network could be the best route to a partner...I dont mean post a bikini pic on LinkedIn or hit on your colleagues but do be active on LinkedIn, attend work socials (when it is allowed), go to conferences and other events. Speed dating is also a good way for you to practice dating and reflect afterwards how your 'pitch' is. It maybe you could tweak your pitch to dating mode not work mode (be yourself, but really a date is about being playful, coy, mysterious, teasing....are you letting those sides of you shine?) The truth is that the more aware and evolved you become as a person, the less 'need' there is for a partner and the bar is raised. So you're probably saying men who are behind you and so you're not going to see the point.

Well done for your successes. Don't change yourself, I just think OLD is tricky.

Hi all, thank you for your very thoughtful replies, you've already given me food for thought. There might be something in the idea that perhaps online dating is not the best medium and I might be luckier exploring different channels.

@Techway yes I had one long-term relationship (5 years) in my 20s, which ended because I fell out of love. Then more recently a very tumultuous and difficult 1.5 years relationship with an older man with DC. In between a bunch of short 2/3 months flings, but almost nothing since the end of my last relationship 10 months ago.

I guess you can't have it allways, your driven work life and goals appears to take up your time. If you found someone else on a par with yourself would there actually be anytime for s relationship.

have you seen the thread 'MC women should choose WC men'?

The very early days of dating are meant to be lighthearted and fun. It doesn't mean that no serious things can ever be discussed if they come up but to be honest I think you would put a lot of people off if that's how you come across so early on when there's plenty of time for that a bit later in the relationship. The key here is that it will make them wonder whether they'd always come second to your career if they had a long-term relationship with you and no one wants that. That sort of thing would put me off men too if they seem too obsessed with their career (no matter how impressive their job is) as it will only lead to them neglecting the relationship.

@Raidblunner

I guess you can't have it allways, your driven work life and goals appears to take up your time. If you found someone else on a par with yourself would there actually be anytime for s relationship.

This is an excellent point and I think it's why a lot of the young successful men who are the "equivalent" of the OP actually end up settling down with/marrying women who are less 'high flying' career focused. It's just not practically compatible a lot of the time to have two people who are so career focused, especially when children come along.

Don't change who you are. Most important no.1 thing!

Some men probably like laid-back, free-spirit.

Some men like driven, career, types.

Whatever. Just carry on being you, and your development and enjoyment of life.

If you have a good professional job, there's more possibilly you might meet someone compatible in that way as well, I would have thought.

(Less no-hopers, down the down the pub on a Tuesday afternoon 'cost there's nothing else to do).

A very good friend is similar to you OP and she is also single
According to her the choices are men who are intimidated by her and end up resenting her, men who want to freeload off her or men who have equally good careers but only think they want a woman like her and it becomes swiftly apparent that they actually want someone less driven to support THEIR career
You sound great OP and I don’t think you should change but I can see that dating might be difficult

Do you have an idea what you ultimately want? I.e. do you want marriage and DC? Do you want an equally driven man that you can have a power partnership with? A man who would be willing to take a back seat to your career and shoulder the bulk of DC care, if any? (It does happen; my boss's boss has a DH who works flexibly around her and takes care of her while she brings home the bacon.) Do you think you might want to step back or go on pause at some point? Or do you just want someone to have fun with and aren't too bothered about DC?

Fwiw your dating history doesn't seem sparse to me and 10 months isn't that long, especially this year. I think you're probably just in a temporary lull.

@Respectabitch I am clear that I am looking for a meaningful, loving relationship, but to be honest I am pretty open about what that could look like, as in with DC or without, married or not. I know I'd like to cohabit with a partner, but I don't have precise expectations about the rest.

@MysteryMy thank you for your kind words

@LilyWater good point and I do see what you mean. My career is important to me and I don't make a secret of it. I don't work the ridiculous hours that some other fields require (like 14/16 hours a day!), but I do often work 9am to 7pm. It is a high-stress role so it is hard not to bring the stress into my personal life sometimes. I can see it would be a problem for someone who expects a partner to be 100% dedicated to the relationship.

[quote StefInTheLandOfCrazy]@LilyWater good point and I do see what you mean. My career is important to me and I don't make a secret of it. I don't work the ridiculous hours that some other fields require (like 14/16 hours a day!), but I do often work 9am to 7pm. It is a high-stress role so it is hard not to bring the stress into my personal life sometimes. I can see it would be a problem for someone who expects a partner to be 100% dedicated to the relationship.[/quote]
Err....unless they're looking for something causal,
doesn't everyone expect a serious partner to be 100% dedicated to the relationship?

If that's how you see things then it's good you're being upfront about it with men you date. However bear in mind that, in practice, "having it all" at the same time is impossible (for a woman or man) and you're planning to allow regular work stress into personal life on top of this, so be prepared for the likelihood that your relationship/marriage could fail in the long term, especially if you plan to have kids.

For long term relationships to work, both partners need to be 100% dedicated to the relationship and to put this (and kids, if present) as first priority. This doesn't mean no one works or seeks fulfilment in their job, but it's being realistic that there's only so many hours in a day, life is full of enough stress already, and as with anything else in life, you have to prioritise what's most important, in order to give it the attention it deserves.

If your career and keeping hold of a high stress role is really that important to you, then it makes sense to do what men in your position often do, which would be to seek out men who are happy to have their career on the back burner/work part-time/be a house husband. Surely you can see yourself if you married a man with the same career outlook as you it simply wouldn't work in the long term? Save yourself the pain now.

Err....unless they're looking for something causal, doesn't everyone expect a serious partner to be 100% dedicated to the relationship?

I... find that phrasing really weird, I've gotta say. I've been happily with DH for 17 years now, married for over a decade, and I don't think I could say that I was "100% dedicated to the relationship". I'm very committed to the relationship, obvs, but there are circumstances in which I would leave it, and I certainly wouldn't be "100% dedicated to the relationship" with someone I was fairly recently with. I just find the way you're putting it so pressured and intense up front.

Dual career relationships are not that unusual or unworkable. It's hard to both have very demanding jobs AND DC, unless you're happy to buy in a lot of help and just accept always running a little ragged, but OP isn't bothered about DC, it appears, and plenty of couples both manage an engaging career. As we've been doing for 17 years.

I completely see where you're coming from OP. In my experience of dating men and being fairly independent with a good career and intelligent, it seems that men think they want a strong, independent woman and then when they meet one they don't know how to handle her.

I once heard that women seek to find men who are more intelligent, better career, more money because it challenges them & they think about the future & prospects, whereas men seek to find women that have less than them to make themselves feel better, needed, looked up to. I know that's controversial and not everyone will agree with it but interesting theory nonetheless.

So hard (even before Covid) to know where to find decent men, who have their shit together & can hold a decent conversation and are happy stand beside an equally strong woman

@Respectabitch

Err....unless they're looking for something causal, doesn't everyone expect a serious partner to be 100% dedicated to the relationship?

I... find that phrasing really weird, I've gotta say. I've been happily with DH for 17 years now, married for over a decade, and I don't think I could say that I was "100% dedicated to the relationship". I'm very committed to the relationship, obvs, but there are circumstances in which I would leave it, and I certainly wouldn't be "100% dedicated to the relationship" with someone I was fairly recently with. I just find the way you're putting it so pressured and intense up front.

Dual career relationships are not that unusual or unworkable. It's hard to both have very demanding jobs AND DC, unless you're happy to buy in a lot of help and just accept always running a little ragged, but OP isn't bothered about DC, it appears, and plenty of couples both manage an engaging career. As we've been doing for 17 years.

I said "100% dedicated" (using the OP's own words) with a "serious partner", not if you're just dating someone . I said myself above that the early dating part should be fun and light-hearted. I think a lot of the relatively high divorce rate is caused by one or both partners not prioritising the relationship enough, and being 100% dedicated to their careers (or something else) instead of to each other/the family. So many men for example dedicate too much of themselves to their jobs rather than pulling their weight at home and being 100% dedicated to maintaining a loving relationship and having enough quality time with their spouse/kids.

But I'm not "100% dedicated" to anything in my life. I have all kinds of priorities. I value my marriage above any individual job if it came to a choice, but not above my career.

You just seem to be making this very zero sum like it's not possible for the OP to be really dedicated to her career and also have a relationship. And it is. Your ideal of "100% dedicated to the relationship" makes me want to run away.

I think you'd have more luck making friends with men first through things like running clubs, rowing, kick boxing and (possibly golf 🤔😳). You could lead with your competitive side and not talk about work and careers at all. Keep the conversation light without hiding your personality. Be yourself, but lead with your hobbies and interests, rather than your work. I would think the same of any man. I'd like to know he can switch off and has a persona and passions outside of the office.

But to be honest I am pretty open about what that could look like, as in with DC or without, married or not. I know I'd like to cohabit with a partner, but I don't have precise expectations about the rest

I think this could be part of the problem, as you're not really sure what you want out of your relationship future - makes it harder to date in a more targeted fashion. With your career, think how focused you've been on what you wanted out of it, and how you were going to get it. You need to have a similar understanding of yourself re: relationships. Otherwise, you can waste time with unsuitable men. Also, many men in their 30s know what they want and date very specifically for this. And would expect the women they date to know whether she wanted kids or not, wanted marriage or not - or at least have some idea of what she'd want her relationship to look like.

Having said that, it can be harder to meet men when you're successful in your own right, but absolutely not impossible. Depends where your dating pool is - much easier in a big city.

I'm a bit older than you, divorced, and similar to you - very successful, career driven and independent. However, I do know I want marriage and kids - so it makes it easier to date, as I know the qualities I'd need in someone to be a good husband and father. I have a similarly successful friend who absolutely does not want kids, and when she dates she looks for men with DC already who don't want any more. We've both managed to find partners using the apps because of the clarity we have on the type of relationship/man we want.

I do think it's a myth that men are initimidated by career women. Almost all the women I work with (in the City) are married - some to men who are equals, some to men who are more successful and others to men who are not that career driven. I was married too (met on Tinder) - and my career was never an issue for him even though I was always more driven than him.

So my advice would be to think about what you want in your personal life, and then focus on dating men who will fit into it.

Men prefering sweet and dependent women to intelligent driven successful women? Never heard of that before, seems implausible!

It's not you, it's them. You just havent found the right one yet.

Are you comparing yourself to ‘softer’ women and thinking that men would prefer that?

How much do you enjoy what you have achieved and what are your work goals? If you are happy with your work and future goals I think you should wait until you find someone who fits in with that - not change yourself

Major generalisation here but women tend to date up and men date down.

You sound like a real catch to me but your dating prospects are naturally going to be quite small.

Also online dating is horrendous so try not to let that get your down.

I echo other suggestions of trying to meet men via work, networking, hobbies etc (very hard to do in a pandemic!).