Anyone else find this?

[LostVoiceInTheCrowd]

Men fancy me and some want to date me but I think (know) that I'm not the sort of woman they really want to be with and none has ever wanted to commit. I think the expectation of me vs the reality is too different.

It's frustrating, demoralising and has made me too wary to try again. It's getting harder as I get older - i feel the older men are, the higher their expectations of the 'sort of woman' they feel they deserve.

Or just the expectation vs the reality of women in general!

It sounds like you have some insecurities

I feel the same OP, I can get dates but the men never seem to want to take it further unless its a sex only thing. At nearly 40 I'm baffled as to how to turn a few dates into anything more, so far it doesn't seem to make any difference if I sleep with them or not. I'm often told I'm a 'nice lady' which is quite depressing because then I think, well why don't you want to still date me? I feel like you, I'm getting cynical and wary which makes me sad because I don't want to be, but I never seem to get any where.

It sounds like you have some insecurities

I suppose i do. I never used to. I was always confident until I realised there was a pattern emerging...

What sort of woman do you think they want to be with and in what way are you not that sort of woman?
I'm not on the dating scene but I have heard that OLD can be tough.

Well feel comments they make either about me or other women, someone who is 25, beautiful, slim, sexy...

That being in spite of the fact they, themselves, are 50 something, bald and a bit paunchy, or with less than taut skin themselves, a droopy arse and sagging ballsack... None of which I mind as I'm not shallow. But personality and compatibility don't seem to be important to them.

It doesn't matter how much we laugh, how many interests we share, how well we communicate, when it comes down to it they aren't prepared to commit (on any level) because, if they do, they might miss out on the woman I described above.

It makes no difference whether I meet them in real life or online.

Do you actually know this for sure or your own judgement on what they are looking for?
Change your mindset, stuff them if they actually say your not good enough and keep looking for a higher standard of man yourself, from what you describe of the men you've dated looks like you could raise your standards anyway.
They need to know that you are also a catch and won't commit to just anyone and let them prove they are worth it.

I don't think it's you, men generally do seem more commitment phobe than women and it's nothing to do with how beautiful you are, when you believe in yourself that's when you'll find a decent one.

Bit of both, seensome, really.

There have been occasions where men have actually said/done something. It's hard to pinpoint really. There have been comments that I could/should lose weight, facial expressions/looking 'taken aback' when they see me naked, total absence of any appreciative comments/touches during sex... I've been told that they really like me, I'm funny, pretty, interesting, intelligent, cool but for them there's just 'something missing' (the body to go with it all). I'm just not the 'complete package' and I think a lot of them would substitute some of my other qualities for a 'hot body'.

I suppose these experiences have made me hyper sensitive to any criticism, perceived criticism or 'micro criticisms' of my body.

I found it hard to articulate what I meant in my first post.

I think it boils down to this.

I am quite 'cool' in some mens eyes. Friend's husbands have (apparently) commented that theyre surprised I'm single because I'm cool/pretty. Based on what men say, I have a 'cool' hobby which makes me quite 'visible' at times, I have a 'cool' dress sense, I look/am quite young/youthful (for my age) and they quite like to be 'seen' with me. One male friend said to me that men feel quite 'proud' to be seen with me because I don't behave like most women my age (no idea what that means really) but that it probably puts off men who are less interested in that stuff. I think they have an 'impression' of me that they fancy but, when the chips are down and the clothes are off, I just look like every other perimenopausal, size 12, 40something woman who has had 2 children, breastfed for 3 years, has a bit of a tummy, a bit of cellulite and isn't commited to the gym 3 nights a week. I think it's the dissonance between their perception of me and the reality that is the issue.

One male friend said to me that men feel quite 'proud' to be seen with me because I don't behave like most women my age

And not because.

I’m sorry OP, it does sound like they’re being shallow and not seeing you as a whole package. I think generally in our society porn has a lot to answer for. It may subconsciously lead these men to think they deserve/ should be irresistible to 20 something slim beauties wherever they go Whilst not seeing you for how amazing you are! You sound great!

OP have you posted about this before? Specifically about men seeming disappointed with your naked body?

It sounds like your look and general persona may be attracting men who are really into that "concept" if you will, but then reality hits and they turn out to be quite shallow and actually not want a human, but some mythical perfect epitome of cool. A touch of Manic Pixie Dream Girl syndrome?

Would you consider changing your dating profile to try to appeal to a different range of men? Eg not mentioning your hobby, stating that you have kids (I know some women don't say this for fear of wrong'uns), think about profile photos and the image they portray.

The reason I'm saying this is because I've had sex with a lot of people, and while some of them have not wanted a repeat performance, the vast majority have - and I have a typical 40s mum body: size 14, cellulite, saggy skin on my stomach, thighs, upper arms etc.

Question: when you've had sex with them, are they happy to continue a sexual relationship with you but not an emotional one? Because if so, it's not their perception of your body that's the problem, it's more likely to be a personality mis-matched in some way.

A touch of Manic Pixie Dream Girl syndrome?

Obviously, I haven't shared the specifics with him (!) but my son (22) thinks similarly.

It sounds like your look and general persona may be attracting men who are really into that "concept" if you will, but then reality hits and they turn out to be quite shallow and actually not want a human, but some mythical perfect epitome of cool.

Yes, i think that's definitely a big part of it.
I'm very comfortable in my own skin. I don't 'try' to be something I'm not or subscribe to ideals of beauty. I don't make any apology for myself or my flaws. I don't seek reassurance. And I think some of them think i should be a little more insecure, more self deprecating and just more aware/ashamed of my 'lack'.

I don't have a dating profile. I gave up on that years ago and, from what I hear, it's only become worse. I wouldn't do online dating for anything now. It was dreadful.

Some of them haven't wanted a repeat performance. Most have. Some have wanted to date me but I've never found anyone who wanted a 'relationship' with me. It's like no one ever sees me as suitable for long term.

Would you consider changing your dating profile to try to appeal to a different range of men? Eg not mentioning your hobby, stating that you have kids (I know some women don't say this for fear of wrong'uns), think about profile photos and the image they portray.

When I did do online dating, I mentioned my children. My profile pics were always a head shot, a full body shot and one of me doing my hobby.

My hobby is a big part of life (or was, pre covid). It's music related and a lot of my friends are also into it. If I were to hide it completely, I'd possibly attract men who weren't compatible with me. And others have been uncomfortable with/unsupportive of it if it wasn't their thing.

I was married briefly and he very much framed it as me being immature or not taking being an adult seriously. I tried to change for him because I thought, at the time, that maybe he was right. But I was miserable the whole time. I dressed differently, I had different friends and did different things but I never felt like Me. I felt like i was playing at being someone else because i was.

So i don't want to risk meeting someone who isn't supportive.

OP, I must ask you if you wanted to be with any of these men? Because from the way you've described some of them, it seems you were making do with what was available.

For my part, I can empathise with your OP.

I realised that all the men I dated preferred their idea of me rather than the real me, I was never able to live up to their expectations of me, and I was not happy to contort myself to meet their idea of me. I refuse to compromise myself just to be with a man, and the acceptance was life-changing.

This coincided with the realisation that I did not want to get married or have children, and if I was honest with myself, did not envisage a long term thing with any of the men I had dated previously.

Now, well, pre COVID, I dated a wide range of men, some older than me, some younger than me. Some I dated for a few dates, some for several months. This seems to work much better for me and as a result, have more satisfying relationships and spend time with lots of interesting men.

OP, I'm wondering if it's nothing at all to do with your physical appearance but more to do with (most) men's need for security/easy life. You say that others perceive you as 'cool' and that you can be quite 'visible' at times. Perhaps these men are thinking that life with you might not be the Sunday roast kind of life? Perhaps you come across as too independent? I'm not saying you should change; I'm just offering a new perspective.

@EpochTime

OP, I'm wondering if it's nothing at all to do with your physical appearance but more to do with (most) men's need for security/easy life. You say that others perceive you as 'cool' and that you can be quite 'visible' at times. Perhaps these men are thinking that life with you might not be the Sunday roast kind of life? Perhaps you come across as too independent? I'm not saying you should change; I'm just offering a new perspective.

I agree with this! I know this is what some men have felt about me.

Op have you posted about this before? Your style of writing and subject matter is very similar to a recent thread saying the exact same thing,

OP, I must ask you if you wanted to be with any of these men? Because from the way you've described some of them, it seems you were making do with what was available

A couple of them of them I did. I've only dated 4 men in the past 8 years because I'm actually quite picky. I turn down far more men than not. The last was someone I really had wantd it to work with for many reasons but it was really obvious that, whilst he liked me and found me attractive, he was also a bit ashamed of me and, I suspect, worried about what other people/men would think of him that I was the best he could do.

the men I dated preferred their idea of me rather than the real me, I was never able to live up to their expectations of me, and I was not happy to contort myself to meet their idea of me. I refuse to compromise myself just to be with a man

Yes. This exactly. But i would like a relationship that lasted more than a few months if I'm honest.

EpochTime

Maybe you have a point there. But surely there are men who are ok with a woman being an actual person?!

Bluntness100

Yes. I'm really struggling with it though.

I'm fed up of being alone and lonely. I'm fed up of feeling there's something wrong with me and that if I were different it might be different.

I don't find the advice to have therapy useful - there's nothing wrong with me. Nor to he happy on my own. I've done that and I'd like a relationship. A proper one. With a partner.

And I'm just really bloody frustrated by it.

So many women saying that a man has never commented negatively on them in a relationship. I just don't know how they do it

I just wondered to what extent other women also experience similar really. And if there was an explanation beyond "you must have low self esteem" because I don't.

I understand.
I'm also a cool menopausal women mid 40's. I'm very pretty, athletic and slim.

Online dating is dire because
Free sites is only about sex
Paid sites they don't message me- their self esteem maybe?
Though I have had some dates.

I saw an unusual ad recently.
Good looking man. Ad said I want a weekend girlfriend with no desire to have children and no wishes for commitment. Honest. I wonder if he has many offers.

OP, personally, I would not spend time brooding on those men who things did not work out with, they're not worth your time, not least because they weren't the right fit.

Some you like and who likes you will turn up. Just give it time. In the interim, be ruthless and don't accept anything less than you deserve. It made me sad when you wrote 'he was also a bit ashamed of me and, I suspect, worried about what other people/men would think of him that I was the best he could do.'

What a waste of your time being with someone like this.

What a waste of your time being with someone like this

The thing is, I met all of his friends and some of his family. They all knew things about me - he was proud of that aspect of me.

But I also suspected, reading between the lines of things he said, that he would have preferred it if it had all come wrapped in a more attractive body.

There was a dissonance that he couldnt reconcile. Cool, attractive, interesting, fun... just not hot. That's the bit I think (know) he struggled with.

I'm also a cool menopausal women mid 40's. I'm very pretty, athletic and slim.

So being slim and 'fit' wouldn't help me either then?

I'm short and curvy. I often think that beign slimmer and having a good body would make it easier becaud that dissonance wouldnt be there.

Doesn't sound like it though!

I have had what some may perceive as negative comments from men, outspoken and blunt spring to mind. That was more because I know my own mind and wouldn’t comply. It didn’t bother me. What do you actually say back to them when they make these comments?

What do you mean by cool anyway? It’s quite an outdated term surely from our youth, I’m also middle aged and remember it being used to describe people who were not seen as mainstream. Maybe try not putting yourself in a category would be good for starters. Worrying about comments made about you does indicate a self esteem issue to me regardless of what you think because you are pondering their comments.

Plus friends partners I was a great believer in men and women can be friends for decades. Then DH and I had a bad wobble and separated at my instigation briefly. I was grieving and not thinking straight at all, no third party involved. Two male friends propositioned me, I had known one for over a decade and the other for 3 years. Would never have guessed, felt immensely annoyed and let down. A lot of men are chancers those comments from friends partners, makes you think their nice doesn’t it? Be a little wary.

Some you like and who likes you will turn up. Just give it time

How much time though before injust accept it isnt going to happen?

I appreciate what you're saying but it's only going to get harder and I'm the 'other side'of 45 already!

How long before I just become invisible and men don't even find me attractive anymore?

Without sounding boastful, I'm also always much smarter than the men I've met. They don't like it and it causes them to put me down in other ways.

Plus in a feminist and not at all needy and they can't align this with their masculinity.