What would you do about this?

[UsualCrowd]

What would you do if the mother of an ex friend of your daughter's followed her around a supermarket and shouted at her in public?

I feel it was very inappropriate of her to do so and borders on harassment.

My daughter is now very nervous about the situation happening again.

There is a long backstory.

Call the police. It should be on CCTV. She is an adult and should be accountable for her actions.

What age is your daughter? If she’s a minor, I would be tempted to call the police. If she’s an adult, it’s more up to her, so I’d counsel her and listen to how she felt.

The mother's behaviour was potentially assault and/or harrassment depending on the specific circumstances. I'd have gone to security or customer services. Your daughter shouldn't feel she can't go out though, or the bully wins. This kind of thing could escalate so it may be worth contacting the police.

She's 14.

Depends on the back story.

She portrays herself as vair nice and mc so it wasn't a screaming fit but she raised her voice and followed them. The friend my daughter was with was intimidated and walked away and was very upset by it.

My daughter listened but said the mum was accusing her of things (eg telling her daughter to piss off) which my daughter maintained simply didnt happen and said so. She hasn't had contact with this girl for a few months. She's just not on her radar anymore.

This woman feels she is in the right and it was appropriate to do so.

Her daughter ad approached my daughter and friend and accused them of spamming her on sm. The reality is that she has resumed repeatedly messaging them and, when they asked her to leave them alone and said they werent interestd in resuming the friendship, she said these messages were 'spamming'. They hadn't wanted to engage (they ended the friendship as it had become very toxic from this other girl) and so walked away.

The mother sought them out in the store to tell them off for walking away when her daughter had only been trying to speak to her and shouted at, and followed, them when they walked away from her too.

She messaged me in the evening to complain about my daughter's behaviour. I told her that walking away from her daughter was a healthy response to avoid escalation (appropriate given the background) and that it had been inappropriate of her to confront them.

She said she had been trying to 'intervene'. I said that as the girls werent talking then no intervention was necessary. It was a confrontation.

She's messaged and phoned me since but I have ignored.

Clearly a whole lot of dysfunction going on.

I'm aware that this is brief, muddled and not helpful but the backstory long.

Backstory... I had typed it out previously but decided it was a bit long...

"My daughter is 14. She has known a girl since nursery. They went to different secondary schools. Her friendship with this girl has always been 'intense' - the other girl is incredibly clingy.

At the end of Reception, school moved them into separate classes because my daughter literally couldn't do anything without this girl clinging on. Sometimes physically. It was very upsetting for both children. The other girl experienced huge anxiety if away from my daughter who felt suffocated by it all.

Fwd 12 years. They remained friends but the friendship was still very intense. This other girl has had countless failings out with other children. They all find her too much. She has a history of trying to get school to exclude girls who wont be friends with her - eg sending abusive messages repeatedly and then deleting her messages so that only the other girls' responses could be seen and reporting them to student support for bullying with the intention of them being excluded. Obviously v immature and it hasn't worked but was distressing for the other girls at the time. Other girls have told her she's 'toxic'. The mother admits that they find their daughter difficult and that they relied/depended on my daughter as her only friend.

Anyway, earlier this year, my daughter ended the friendship. This girl's mum messaged and contacted me endlessly about it. I tried to be supportive but essentially this woman wanted my daughter to remain friends with hers. It was causing my daughter anxiety. The other girl would phone her in the middle of the night; expect my daughter to offer unending support she was hugely jealous that my daughter had other friends and would hang up on her and send dozens of abusive messages if my daughter answered the phone to her whilst with someone else yet would do the same if she didnt answer; 'accuse' her of having other friends and demand to know who she was with and what she was doing. Etc etc etc.

In all, it had all the hallmarks of an adult emotionally abusive/toxic relationship.

My daughter had blocked her on everything but this girl continued to set up new multiple Instagram accounts and message her/request follows etc all of which my daughter ignored.

The messages died down and she didnt hear from her for a few months until a couple of weeks ago when the messaging resumed. The messages were initially fine. Just friendly catch up sorts sort my daughter (foolishly) responded because she's 14 and couldnt see a problem with remaining civil and the messages were 'normal' and she didnt want to appear rude. We have spoken about this. But they again escalated - constant messages, accusations that it wasnt really my daughter replying and she'd given her phone to someone else to message instead and that was why my daughter's messages were brief and stated she didnt want to resume the friendship. My daughter ignored and stopped responding. The messages continued.

I've seen all the messages.

The other girl has been asked to stop messaging and my daughter has told her she doesnt want to resume the friendship.

The girl's parents are obviously worried about their daughter. They also find her intensity overwhelming and she is under a psychiatrist but are equally unable to see their daughter's role in any of her difficulties. They simply see her as vulnerable (which she is) and feel that everyone else is bullying her because they don't understand her. I don't wish to criticise the girl.

They are not bullying her, they just dont wish to be friends with her because of her intensity and unfounded accusations.

But her mum perceives it as bullying because it upsets her daughter.

She is angry at my daughter because the civil chat chat back and forth had led her daughter to believe my daughter wanted to resume the friendship(even though her messages quite clearly state she didnt) and now they are back at square one.

I have spoken with the mum. She said her daughter approached mine to clear the air and to say there should be no more messaging. I said that, as it was her daughter sending the messages, all she needed to do was stop. She then approached my daughter to also tell her the saying needs to stop. But I have seen the message threads. My daughter has asked her to stop messaging several times.

It doesn't matter if there is a backstory or not as the earlier poster implied.

Your DD is a minor and I can't believe that some adults are so inappropriate as to harass a minor like that in public over a friendship fallout in this day and age when she knows she will be on CCTV The ins and outs of whether mumsnetters think your DD deserves it or not is completely irrelevant.

What a stupid woman! Depending on how charitable you feel, you could of course go to the police and they will take it seriously under safeguarding legislation.

Although rereading the OP, it does sound a difficult situation and the mother is clearly distressed. I would probably let it go this time but make it clear to her if you speak to her again that you will take it further if she contacts your daughter in the future.

I had a similar situation several years back, I had a stern word with the mother concerned who screamed at me down the phone (I'm a big girl u could take it, my then 13 year old, shy daughter couldn't!) I let her rant on and then very calmly told her if she or her daughter communicated with or appts her my child in ANY WAY - calls, messages, passive aggressive Facebook posts and ESPECIALLY in person I'd be reporting it as harassment to the school initially if the daughter and the police if it were her and I meant it!

Luckily the combination of the threat, the calm measured way it was delivered and I think her knowing me and knowing like hell was I gonna let her away with that shit meant she backed the fuck off!

You have to stand up for your child against bullies. Children and adults.

I'm also luckily in Scotland where we have slightly different laws on such matters than in England which means police are able to intervene at earlier stages of such issues even if only to put people "on notice"

But I agree with pps you can't pull your punches here she's behaving atrociously!

It doesn't matter if there is a backstory or not as the earlier poster implied

Yes it does.

Gah! Autocorrect I meant

then very calmly told her if she or her daughter communicated with or approached my daughter

That should say

No it doesn't @KatherineJaneway NOTHING justifies an adult approaching a child and intimidating them in this way. Even IF the ops daughter were a bully or unpleasant in any way the way the former friend's mother should have dealt with that ISN'T to bully and intimidate a child

I let her rant on and then very calmly told her if she or her daughter communicated with or appts her my child in ANY WAY - calls, messages, passive aggressive Facebook posts and ESPECIALLY in person I'd be reporting it as harassment to the school initially if the daughter and the police if it were her and I meant it!

Thanks. I think I will do this.

No it doesn't@KatherineJanewayNOTHING justifies an adult approaching a child and intimidating them in this way. Even IF the ops daughter were a bully or unpleasant in any way the way the former friend's mother should have dealt with that ISN'T to bully and intimidate a child

Quite. I left work a couple of evenings ago to a message from this girl's mum and a missed call from the mum of the friend my daughter was with.

I spoke to her friend's mum but did nothing until I got home and asked to see my daughters phone.

I'm not an idiot. I know how 14 year olds can get caught up in the moment and am aware unkind things could be said in the heat of the moment but I read every single message and there wasn't anything unkind or even vaguely unpleasant from my daughter.

Other than accusations that she had given her phone to someone else which all got a bit 'odd', the was nothing unpleasant about the other girls messages either. But they were intense and there were a lot of them.

And even when my daughter had asked her to stop messaging and reiterated that she didnt want to be friends, the messages continued until my daughter blocked her.

You need to speak to the police. Keep all the messages and a log of incidents. Make sure your daughter doesn't respond anymore.

I'm so sorry you are going through this and that the other girl gets the help she needs.

I wasn't at all meaning to imply that your dd had been in any way unpleasant op

My dds ex friend also made certain accusations which fell flat as I too saw the messages and could see none had been deleted or manipulated in any way the ex friend simply wouldn't accept the end of the friendship (which was as a result of her mean girls nonsense anyway!)

I am under no illusions my dd is a saint she has most definitely inherited/learnt my sharp tongue and at times too quick "wit" which we can both take too far at times but on this occasion she was most definitely in the right.

I agree keeping screenshots of the messages and a diary is good advice too.

Kids friendship fallouts can be tricky to negotiate but this other mum is going entirely the wrong way about it.

There is always 3 sides to a story, the mothers side, your DD side, and then the truth.

I would also recommend contacting your daughter’s pastoral support at her school and tell them what is going on. They will have multiple links to other agencies (police, social workers, mental health teams etc). Depending on whether the other girl attends a local secondary school, it’s likely that one school can speak to the other - collaboration and information sharing is very important. Sadly it’s all too common to see parents behave in a similar way to their children, from what you’ve said about the mother’s handling of the situation to date and the very clear lack of boundaries, it’s not surprising that the daughter behaves in the way she does. It’s reassuring that the daughter is receiving help, but the whole family needs support to modify their behaviour, only then will things improve.

Your daughter needs support too, this must be exhausting for her and she needs to feel safe and protected from this. I hope her school has a good pastoral support (or Head of Year). It’s a busy time of year for schools, but make that call and follow it up with an email detailing the key incidents and seek their support, advice and guidance on what can be done.

I wasn't at all meaning to imply that your dd had been in any way unpleasant op

No, I know but it could be a reasonable assumption maybe where teenagers are concerned

I agree with every word of your post.

I'm not going to speak to the police but I think inam going to say something similar to you suggested before.

My daughter is quite meek but has an inner 'fire'. She stood up for herself when the mum confronted her but, once the adrenaline abated, became quite anxious about it happening again.

The sad thing is, the other mum doesnt know how to support her daughter really. The dad just gets angry and punished her when she does this sort of thing (or he did previously). They used to take her phone off her to stop the messages to my daughter but that caused such huge problems in the house that they stopped.

Her mum's preferred approach is for other people to stop 'upsetting' her daughter but, in reality, it's their own boundaries that upset her.

She is completely unable to manage her emotions and her emotional responses and her parents arent helping her to do that.

@Graphista

We'll have to agree to disagree. I was once being bullied when I was a child and adults nearby stood up for me by telling the children off when I was being assaulted and making sure I was safe. You think they should have just left me be hurt?

In this case it was unwise of the OP's daughter to resume contact and unacceptable of the mother to follow the dd around. My view is it isn't always the case that adults shouldn't confront children.

There is always 3 sides to a story, the mothers side, your DD side, and then the truth

I think my daughter was an idiot for engaging. And I've told her so.

We talked extensively before about ignoring and not encouraging the messaging.

I previously read all the messages that went between them and discussed them with the other girl's mum. She agreed that they were inappropriate. She just didnt think my daughter would walk away from it.

I understand her upset that her daughter thought these recent messages might signify a resuming of the friendship but my daughter was quite clear fro the outset that she was happy to be civil but didnt want to be friends.

I was friends with the mum before all this so I know first had the difficulties they have with her and I had a lot of understanding and compassion before this recent event.

If it were just my daughter she were having issues with, I'd be inclined to agree but she has psychiatric support and extensive pastoral support at school. The parents are constantly involved with the school due to her interactions with her peers. They find her behaviour at home challenging because she is equally intense and demanding with them.

Obviously, I'm going to support my daughter a much as she will support hers but I've read the messages and, believe me, if I'd seen anything my daughter had done wrong, I'd have acted on it.

My view is it isn't always the case that adults shouldn't confront children.

In cases of bullying, an adult should discuss with the children. The problem is that, when the parent of the aggrieved child approaches it crosses boundaries and breaches safeguarding. A third party adult, without bias, should be the person to deal with it. I wouldn't dream of confronting a child in this way!

If the girls had been talking and it was escalating, it would have been appropriate to intervene but when my daughter and her friend had been approached by this girl; shut it down calmly and walked away, it was entirely inappropriate for the mum to walk around the shop looking for them, and then follow them around shouting at them.

adults nearby stood up for me by telling the children off when I was being assaulted and making sure I was safe

That's not what happened here

I think you should speak to the school and let them know what has happened, and let them know this part - that your intention is to send a cease and desist text to the mother. (Obviously follow through.) Advise her that confronting your child is inappropriate and intimidating, and any further communication either in person, via text or a third party will be considered harassment and you will take legal action. *This woman is not helping her daughter at all, and this is obviously where her daughter’s behaviours stem from. Serious counselling required for both of them and I think your DD’s policy of avoiding both at all costs is very smart!