ASD man: did I miss something?

[dubyalass]

Spent the weekend with friend who has ASD. I fancy him, had heard that he fancied me, albeit back when we first met, some 20 years ago (!). He insisted on doing all the cooking, driving me around to places I wanted to go, even broke his general teetotal-ness to join me in a glass of wine. Nothing happened between us but it definitely felt like he was flirting at times, and I thought I responded in kind, although I am quite shy. We sat on the sofa together, lots of mirrored body language etc and he made a comment about feeling relaxed with me, but on the last night I was there, he seemed to withdraw and distance himself. We talked about online dating (which he’s been doing) and he said his lower age limit was two years older than what I am currently (he’s 10 years older than me) and he was looking for a clever woman, and I kind of took that to be a rejection because I am in no way geeky whereas he describes himself as a total geek.

I’ve read a bit about dating people with ASD and one common characteristic seems to be they go all-out to try to impress the person, which he was definitely doing the first couple of days. I’m now wondering if my own inability to read the signs/be more blatant meant he thought I wasn’t interested, hence pulling back. He lives a fair way away and with COVID I’m unlikely to get the chance to see him again for a few months. Anyone with experience of Aspie men able to tell me if I should be kicking myself right now??

Avoid the term Aspie. Stopped being used about 4 years ago.
Married to an ASD man for 10 years. He cannot read flirting or body language AT ALL. Mirrored body language etc would be far too subtle.
Try an upfront conversation. At least on the telephone and not seeing each other soon then there is nothing lost.
Good luck

Oh god, sorry - won’t use that term again. It seemed to be used in the articles I was reading and I had no intention of causing offence.

OK, thanks, will have to rethink my approach, if the chance arises again. He told me a few ways in which he struggles with communication/other people’s expectations and so I tried to adjust to that, but it’s all very new to me and I’m worried I got it wrong.

Physical affection is the only signal my partner understands as indicating that I fancy him. Nothing verbal works, he just asks if I'm being sarcastic.

@IrritableBitchSyndrome

Physical affection is the only signal my partner understands as indicating that I fancy him. Nothing verbal works, he just asks if I'm being sarcastic.

My friend has a husband who is diagnosed as having Aspergers and said when they were first together she would have to say to him "I really want to have sex with you" as she could have been doing anything else and he wouldn't have realised that's what she meant! So I think being direct is the key - to a point where for most people it would feel too direct. They're a fab couple, I love them.

Thanks also to a PP for flagging re the term aspie - my friend's husband uses it and I had no idea it was outdated! Will make a mental note of it - thank you.

I have very good friend with Aspergers and he describes himself as Aspergers or Aspie. He prefers the term to ASD because Autism spectrum disorder covers such a wide range of abilities and he is very high functioning. (Not saying I agree with that and it's not politically correct. But it's how he feels). So I do use Aspie to describe him because he likes it. I wouldn't use the term otherwise though, as it is seen to be outdated now.

To the OP, it sounds like he was doing everything to impress you and make an effort, which is a nice thing! Don't take the comment about your age being slightly other than his ideal, or the fact that he likes clever women, as a rejection. He would simply have been making a statement of fact. The nuances of those words would not have been something he was aware of.

Dating for men with ASD can be a minefield. When you don't understand subtle body language, the nuances of flirting or the niceties of romance it can be very hard to move things forward. At worst he could misread the signals and make a physical move that you didn't want, which would be his biggest fear (both in terms of getting things very wrong, and getting into trouble with the law). So he's made his opening gambit and if you are interested you need to make it clear, with words. You also need to use literal (not dirty) words. Saying "I fancy you and I'd like to see where it goes" will mean nothing to him, it's too opaque. "I like you in a romantic way" "Can I sleep with you in your bedroom tonight" (assuming you want to!) Or "would you like to be boyfriend and girlfriend" is better. I know it feels counter intuitive especially for a female but you have to be very literally clear. He will have little idea of romantic convention and cannot read your mind so you need to say it straight!

I notice you said it felt like he was a bit withdrawn and distant on the last night. He may well have just reached his limit for socialising by that point, no reflection on you but rather just needed to recharge. Also agree that a direct conversation is a good idea and something he will likely appreciate. Maybe just ask him if he'd like to go on a proper date with you or would he prefer to just remain as friends, something like that? I'm not hugely comfortable with being direct myself but actually find it quite refreshing with my partner who is autistic, no games, always know where you stand!

They’ve changed the terminology again- it’s now ASC (Autism Spectrum Condition).

@LopsidedWombat I notice you said it felt like he was a bit withdrawn and distant on the last night. He may well have just reached his limit for socialising by that point, no reflection on you but rather just needed to recharge.

I also wondered that, mainly because as an introvert I am exactly the same myself - can only deal with others for a couple of days max before I get exhausted and need time alone, and so I might have withdrawn a bit too.

I must admit I am terrified of the idea of a direct conversation - am the opposite of direct - but that’s definitely what he needs, he said as much when we were talking. I used to be really good at telling men I fancied them and just moving on if they weren’t interested, but it’s been so long since I’ve liked someone that I’ve lost my nerve!

@JovialNickname that’s really interesting, and yes it was really nice! He is a real sweetheart. Sounds like I need to be brave. I also need to bear in mind that I am still a bit damaged by a previous (abusive) relationship in which my ex never let me get close, or would draw me in only to push me away in disgust, and am probably over sensitive in how I perceive certain behaviour as a result.

I wondered about messaging him to ask for tips on how to communicate with him generally, to make it easier for him. For instance, he said he can’t cope with someone saying “I’m going to the shops now, do you want to come?”, but if they say “I’m going to the shops in half an hour, do you want to come?” then he has time to prepare and is happy to go. No idea if that would be patronising though.

Food for thought, thanks all. And also noted on the new “ASC” term - had seen that referenced somewhere too.

‘Aspie’ is still in common use and not considered offensive. I personally don’t like it, too cutesy, but some people do.

I am autistic & cannot flirt or read flirting. Better just to be upfront, make him aware you like him. Wouldn’t ask him out though, that sets a precedent for you having to do all the proactive stuff.

Also, consider many autistics would be peopled-out after a weekend of company, which might explain his behaviour towards the end.

It sounds like you might have been the one to withdraw when you thought he'd ruled you out? Perhaps you subtly shifted your body language at that point and he couldn't guess why or what had happened?

I'm autistic and married to an autistic man, its hard to generalise on these things. DH would 100% have understood "I fancy you" for example even if he wouldn't have known quite how to react.

To start with, if I were you I'd try a simple message like "I really enjoyed our date on Saturday, and I wondered if you wanted to go out with me again this weekend? I'd love to make us dinner this time, or we could watch a movie? Xx"

That way you've made it clear you thought of it as a date and want another one. He might bluntly say that's not his intentions but at least you'll know.

My (now) husband's opening move was a letter telling me he couldn't live without me. I was a little taken aback.

I'd try 'have you ever thought about dating me?'. He'll likely be very up front in his reply and it's a starting point.

Have a look at the support tread for those in a relationship with someone with ASD before you pursue this further - it's in the relationships section. Might give you some helpful insights.

We live too far apart really - I was staying with him for the weekend rather than him being close enough for regular meet ups. It’s probably a non-starter for exactly that reason. But interesting on the him seeing me withdrawing thing - I barely slept while I was there and by the third day was exhausted and struggled to make conversation, so he could well have thought I’d gone cold. Aaarrrgh!

By all means look at the support thread in relationships however do so with an open mind. Most (but not all) of the “Asperger partners” have been wife-diagnosed based on many myths on autism (eg autistic people don’t have empathy). Many of the posters appear to be very prejudiced against autistic people and will discourage you from pursuing a relationship. There are very very few who post positively - and that does not mean positive relationships don’t exist, it means that they don’t relate to the thread.

My Autistic partner is just lovely. We have challenges, but we also have love and support and he is extremely empathetic.

Good luck OP.

Yy to that. I find those threads so disablist and upsetting, it wouldn't be allowed about any other group so I hide them. They don't reflect my experiences of an autistic husband one bit, or reflect what I know about other men in my life who I genuinely think from years of reflection and experience are on the spectrum too.

TBH I think they're more of an "I'm married to an arsehole" thread than anything else.

OP, if you can't actually text that, why not something like, "I loved our date weekend and I've been thinking of you all week. Sorry I was so exhausted towards the end of it. When do you think we could meet up again? Would you like to?"

Yy to that. I find those threads so disablist and upsetting, it wouldn't be allowed about any other group so I hide them. They don't reflect my experiences of an autistic husband one bit, or reflect what I know about other men in my life who I genuinely think from years of reflection and experience are on the spectrum too.

You know what they say - if you have met one autistic person then you have met one autistic person. In your case you are married to one autistic person.

Are you able to understand that other people will have their own, entirely different experience of being married to an autistic person? You are somehow sure that they must be wrong -leaving aside the fucking outrageous slur of disablist - because they don't have the same experience as you, so must merely be married to 'arseholes'?

OP would be best advised to do all the research she can as well as get to know her friend better. Then she can make her own informed decision.

if you've met one person blah blah but we'll run threads which hugely generalise and are usually about people without diagnoses.

Nah, jog on.

OP would be best advised to do all the research she can as well as get to know her friend better.

We're all unique. The only research the OP needs to do is to speak to her friend and learn about him. Reading about random strangers does nothing to help her get to know her friend.

I’ve read a bit about dating people with ASD and one common characteristic seems to be they go all-out to try to impress the person

This is not a common characteristic of people with ASD, any more than it is of the rest of the population. We're all different.

We are indeed, and I guess there’s no reason to go looking for relationship ‘support’ if you’re happy or not yet in a relationship.

That said, women in rels with autistic men have every right to get peer support and compare experiences. There’s nothing ableist about it. As a social/communication disability, it’d be incredible if autism didn’t cause problems with relationships sometimes.

OP the tone of response of Haffiana is very consistent with the tone of the “support” thread.

Just as some white people deny there is any such thing as white privilege, many of the NT people on that thread don’t realise the NT privilege that exists and how hard that can make life for autistic people. It’s a slow process of education of people who claim it’s “fucking outrageous” that a thread entitled “support for partners of autistic people” has been called ableist. It’s that kind of hysterical ranting that’s sadly prevalent on that thread and allows the damaging and inaccurate stereotype of people autistic people (particularly those with Asperger’s) to be perpetuated. And to repeat, most partners on that thread are not diagnosed with Asperger’s. That’s a very, very important fact.

Of course everybody's different. Just saying what I read on several sites, from people's descriptions of themselves. It seemed to be a relatively common theme. Anyway, I'll stop digging this hole I'm getting myself into.

I appreciate everyone's responses.

I'm coming at it from a place of trying to understand him, and how he responds to things, so that I can make allowances. He's already told me a couple of things he finds difficult/impossible. I have no experience of family or friends with ASD but I know which situations I find difficult (there was some overlap) and would just like to show a little sensitivity.