Why do posters stress the importance of marriage

[shesyourlobster]

I'd like to understand this more as I read it on posts here all the time and still don't get it. There will often be a post where the OP will happen to mention that they have a child but aren't married and then there will be tons of responses about how venerable they are. This is even if they don't mention anything about their financial situation. I have even seen posters assume that they are young and naive.

Financials aside, I do not believe that marriage means more emotional commitment. Divorce happens far too often for that to be the case.

So why do posters stress the importance of marriage in these cases?

The reason I am asking is because I have a child with my partner and we aren't married. So I really want to know if I am missing something! We have both said that we aren't really interested in marriage for the reason I said above. We both have our own houses (we live together in one and one of our houses is rented out). I have more equity in mine, and earn slightly more than he does. Child related costs are split equally. We have a joint life insurance policy.

So what am I missing? Do we really need that bit of paper?

@YoureNotOnTheList

Legally, you have no relationship to the father of your child at all. You are not his legal next of kin, you do not share possessions, you have no standing at all.

I don't really see why I should be entitled to any possessions that he has worked hard for. If we split up then I wouldn't be entitled to it so why should I be if he dies. We have made provision to support bringing up our child if anything was to happen to either of us.

We did it because we realised that despite being the mother of his child, I had no legal right to make financial and medical decisions on his behalf if he became incapacitated due to illness. And vice verse. It didn't feel right having my now DH's aunt being the one contacted by doctors if he was we in a coma. By law they can't tell you certain information if you're not married. And you have no access to his savings for immediate costs in the event of death/another crisis.
Also what if your circumstances suddenly changed? If your child became very ill and one of you had to stop working to care for them and manage medical appts? Then you'd start to slip in terms of financial equality and if you split up the one who has worked less needs protecting.
This all sounds miserable, but that's why it's a protection.
I want to add that although we only did it for the "paperwork" and had a small wedding with 45 people (years before coronavirus) it was honestly the happiest and most wonderful day. I wish we could do it all again. Suffice to say there was no changing my name!

Ah, just read you are well off

Well then, try and imagine someone not well off

I think that there is so much drivel on here about “common law wives” that posters are keen to ensure that OPs know the facts. There’s still a lot of ignorance about the legal position of cohabitees.

I also think that men who intend to “propose when the time is right” are red flag material. It’s worrying, how passive some OPs are and how deceitful their boyfriends are. Numerous examples of this on AIBU, Chat and Relationships!

So I completely get why she is vulnerable. I have no idea what she would do if they split. However, she never really had a career before meeting him anyway and couldn't wait to give up work to be a SAHM. So her earning potential isn't lower because of him and their children

Not so. You don't get those years you could have been in the workplace back, and the hole in her cv means if she went back to work she would be in worse position than when she left the workplace. If she had stayed in work, she would have been paying into her own pension pot all along and would have had opportunities to work her way up, or training, or to change roles.

Even if she had no ambition and stayed in the exact same role, she'd have likely acquired greater job security, seniority through experience and many companies add things like extra days annual leave by length of service.

We got married because the increased equity in our jointly owned house tipped us above the inheritance tax threshold.... romantic, I know!

And I didn't see the point previously because I'm financially secure. My career did slow down a bit with maternity leave, but I could easily go it alone if I needed.

But the more I read the more aware I become of all the various circumstances that can arise. For example, if one partner has an accident and becomes comatose. They're not dead, so no one inherits anything, but the unmarried partner will find it a lot harder to access their accounts and manage their life while they're in a coma.

If one partner dies while in receipt of a company pension, many will continue to pay a spousal pension until the spouse dies, but if you're not married, you're not recognised.

It really isn't about the emotional commitment anymore, it's being recognised in law as having a financial connection to someone, with the needs and responsibilities that brings about.

@YukoandHiro

We did it because we realised that despite being the mother of his child, I had no legal right to make financial and medical decisions on his behalf if he became incapacitated due to illness. And vice verse. It didn't feel right having my now DH's aunt being the one contacted by doctors if he was we in a coma. By law they can't tell you certain information if you're not married. And you have no access to his savings for immediate costs in the event of death/another crisis. Also what if your circumstances suddenly changed? If your child became very ill and one of you had to stop working to care for them and manage medical appts? Then you'd start to slip in terms of financial equality and if you split up the one who has worked less needs protecting. This all sounds miserable, but that's why it's a protection. I want to add that although we only did it for the "paperwork" and had a small wedding with 45 people (years before coronavirus) it was honestly the happiest and most wonderful day. I wish we could do it all again. Suffice to say there was no changing my name!

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for explaining and for understanding what I meant.

This is definitely something to think about.

Well, you have done some of the legal stuff.
Have you both made wills? Got life insurance? Both names on birth certificate/documented guardianship if one of you should die?

@ImaginaryCat

We got married because the increased equity in our jointly owned house tipped us above the inheritance tax threshold.... romantic, I know!

And I didn't see the point previously because I'm financially secure. My career did slow down a bit with maternity leave, but I could easily go it alone if I needed.

But the more I read the more aware I become of all the various circumstances that can arise. For example, if one partner has an accident and becomes comatose. They're not dead, so no one inherits anything, but the unmarried partner will find it a lot harder to access their accounts and manage their life while they're in a coma.

If one partner dies while in receipt of a company pension, many will continue to pay a spousal pension until the spouse dies, but if you're not married, you're not recognised.

It really isn't about the emotional commitment anymore, it's being recognised in law as having a financial connection to someone, with the needs and responsibilities that brings about.

Thank you, this is helpful.

Also I notice you consider yourself separate financial entities. You don't think you're entitled to his money or him to yours. But you've presumably built a life based on 2 incomes. So why shouldn't you be able to benefit from his money in the event of his death? He would hopefully want you to continue with your existing lifestyle and not have to upend your life to downsize everything.

So her earning potential isn't lower because of him and their children

But the effects on her that follow lowering her earning potential (as described by category12 ) also include recognition of that role in a financial settlement should they split up. Versus nothing if unmarried, other than share of jointly owned property.

Now, she might be as happy as Larry with that, or she might not know there's an issue at all, or something in between, or just think that she has 'rights' when she doesn't. if she posted about separation, diagnosis of life changing or life limiting illness or bereavement, then it's important that posters ascertain the legal position as well as the emotional one

@turkeyboots

Are you expecting to inherit your DPs house should he die before you? And vice versa? There will be inheritance tax liabilities you need to manage which would be solved by marriage.

Also death in service benefits, certain forms of pensions will pay out to surviving spouses and children, but not partners.

@YoureNotOnTheList

So I wanted to know if I have missed something else that I should really know about, for my own position and security.

You seem to have missed everything. You have no legal position or security at all.

Not a particularly helpful response. I am trying to work out what security I need that I don't already have. The PPs have helped to answer this though.

@ImaginaryCat

Also I notice you consider yourself separate financial entities. You don't think you're entitled to his money or him to yours. But you've presumably built a life based on 2 incomes. So why shouldn't you be able to benefit from his money in the event of his death? He would hopefully want you to continue with your existing lifestyle and not have to upend your life to downsize everything.

Really good point that I hadn't thought about. The life insurance payout would cover some of this.

I've been wondering about the his too, so thanks for posting.
I earn less than my partner and covid and being pregnant has effectively ended my self employed business, but I will inherit much more than him and will be buying our family home in the next five years (which will be put into both of our names, I think?!).

I've been wondering whether we should get civil partnered before / soon after baby comes in a few months. I won't really be earning anything, but could have a significantly higher amount of money to my name. Wondering what's best 🤷

Legally you arent in a relationship. You are two people who share a letterbox.

MAKE WILLS - dont put this off, it doesnt take long and doesnt have to be complicated.

Being married (or CP) defines the legal start of the relationship. Divorce or death define the legal end of the relationship. So, day to day being married doesnt matter.

When it matters is when you need to prove there is a relationship. You can only be married to one person at a time but it is perfectly possible to have relationships overlap. Only one of these can be a legal relationship.

All too often relationships dont end tidily with both partners agreeing the relationship is over. Divorce isnt tidy but it is definitive.

Wills are important generally but are vital if not in a legal relationship but remember that wills can be altered unilaterally.

If you travel abroad be aware that your status as unmarried partners may put you at a disadvantage if something goes wrong. In many countries you could be considered to be committing adultery. Most of the time this wont matter as they want your tourist money. However if something goes wrong (victim of a crime, taken ill, have an accident, get accused of a crime) the lack of a legal relationship could make things very difficult and mean that you are viewed less than sympathetically.

@ivfbeenbusy I completely agree with you. I’m always surprised at the amount of SAHMs there seems to be on Mumsnet. I don’t know any in real life. None. Women do need to take some personal responsibility for their own financial circumstances - and I say that as a woman!
This whole being supported by a man really grinds my gears, it just underpins the patriarchal system.
We need more opportunities for parental leave for both men and women and we need equality in wages, though.

[quote AspiringAmazon]@ivfbeenbusy I completely agree with you. I’m always surprised at the amount of SAHMs there seems to be on Mumsnet. I don’t know any in real life. None. Women do need to take some personal responsibility for their own financial circumstances - and I say that as a woman!
This whole being supported by a man really grinds my gears, it just underpins the patriarchal system.
We need more opportunities for parental leave for both men and women and we need equality in wages, though.[/quote]
I agree too and the point that I was (badly) trying to make in my OP is that it bothers me when posters make assumptions about the OP's financial situation just because she is a woman.

I get what PP's have said about this being based on individual circumstances and didn't mean to be ignorant of people in other circumstances at all.

I've had lots of useful advice here so thank you very much. Lots to think about now.

Getting married doesn't mean a wedding.
You can just do it and not tell anyone.
Registry office and home again in 20 minutes.

I'd ask why don't you want to get married? In a stable relationship it shouldn't make any difference.

Too many women put themselves unnecessarily into a financially vulnerable position

Exactly. If women did not agree/want to be the SAHP, if they kept working, they wouldn't need to rely on/expect a man to bail them out when the relationship goes belly up.

I am sick of it to OP.

I am not married, have no intention of ever getting married. DP and I have been together over 21yrs with 2 dc's now a teen and one at Uni.

The house is in our names, we are listed in wills, named on pensions, joint savings etc.

The only thing we haven't done is the ring and bit of paper. Posters will come on and say the bit of paper is worth so much more. But for us it's not.

I am cynical to the vows of marriage also. Almost every time a man has chatted me up knowing I am with someone, he has been married. Every wedding Dp and I have ever attended together, they are all divorced now.

@MarvEll

I've been wondering about the his too, so thanks for posting. I earn less than my partner and covid and being pregnant has effectively ended my self employed business, but I will inherit much more than him and will be buying our family home in the next five years (which will be put into both of our names, I think?!).

I've been wondering whether we should get civil partnered before / soon after baby comes in a few months. I won't really be earning anything, but could have a significantly higher amount of money to my name. Wondering what's best 🤷

This sounds like a difficult decision. I have no advice at all, sorry, but I'm sure some other posters will do. It does seem to take a lot of romance out of the relationship though doesn't it!

@IsAnybodyListening

I am sick of it to OP.

I am not married, have no intention of ever getting married. DP and I have been together over 21yrs with 2 dc's now a teen and one at Uni.

The house is in our names, we are listed in wills, named on pensions, joint savings etc.

The only thing we haven't done is the ring and bit of paper. Posters will come on and say the bit of paper is worth so much more. But for us it's not.

I am cynical to the vows of marriage also. Almost every time a man has chatted me up knowing I am with someone, he has been married. Every wedding Dp and I have ever attended together, they are all divorced now.

Definitely relate to your last paragraph! That's exactly why it doesn't appeal to us.

I used to think marriage wasn't a big deal, and a mortgage and children were both bigger commitments.

Now I think marriage is a quick and relatively cheap way for that emotional commitment to be recognised in law, thus combining your lives financially, legally etc.

If your DP were to die, why shouldn't you inherit his assets? If not his partner and mother of his child, who on earth do you think should have them? Who would you want to have yours? If you live in your house and rent his, surely you'd want him to inherit it if you went under a bus tomorrow so your DC and DP would have as little practical disruption as possible.

This thread is a good example of why people advocate marriage.www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4101091-The-father-of-my-DS-isn-t-interested-in-marriage