Cheating in past relationships, trust issues

[Sandals19]

Long one, apologies.

I'm been seeing a man for the better part of a year now and am having increasing issues trusting him.

Background; I'm a single mum to teenagers, mid 30s. He's a couple of years younger, no kids. We live about 40mins apart, see each other a couple of times a week.

He's attractive, decent job, own home, pretty easy to get on with, good socially (most recent ex was the loud, laddy, boisterous type out socially; not my cup of tea, whereas he is friendly but quiet and not attention drawing). He gets on fine with kids. Ww didn't rush into (full) sex and it was worth it. We talked about what we were looking for from a relationship and he said he's looking for a serious relationship, to build towards marriage and hopefully children. I likewise said I wanted a serious relationship, would like to remarry and am open to having more kids (presuming I can). We've both said we're in love and he's done some really thoughtful, romantic things on occasions like birthday and Valentine's Day.

Early-ish in the relationship, there was a bit of a weird "revelation" when he said he needed to tell me something and then said he was feeling uncomfortable because I'd assumed he'd never been married and had made reference to it a couple of times; whereas he had actually been married for a short time when he was 24/25.
(It was to a foreign girlfriend whose visa status in the UK had been shaky. Their intention was to apply for spousal residence/leave to remain or whatever the right term is …. but for various reasons they didn't follow through on that and she found an alternative route to residence. She now lives in another part of the UK).
He said he pursued the divorce, with her cooperation, a while later because he was buying first home and didn't want complications from still being married.
I found the whole situation a little bit odd but it didn't put me off seeing him so the relationship continued.

Some time after that I found out (well he was quite upfront about it) that he'd cheated in that relationship. The cheating didn't seem to include sex (if he's been honest) but did involve sexual contact.
I was surprised (thought he was better than that) & uncomfortable, especially because he seemed to find it funny (!) when he was describing one situation. When I pointed that out; he said it was shit/not right, but just that that situation was farcical (his gf/wife arrived unannounced at his family home where the "ow" had visited him while he was dog sitting; ow realised, jumped out a (ground floor) window and left through a garden to avoid being seen).

I was very uncomfortable about the cheating and still got the impression he wasn't really very regretful or ashamed; but continued the relationship (probably against my better instincts) because I figured that it was a long time ago, he was young, the relationship was quite short (although they made it more significant by getting married), the marriage was not a "real" one, the ow was not exactly an angel or kept in the dark (she was another housemate of both of theirs) etc. etc.

I have since discovered that not only did he cheat in that relationship, but also in his previous relationship to ours (a six year one that ended about 9 months before we started seeing each other). It was some sort of flirtation/emotional affair, maybe sexting. He actually ended the relationship to get involved with the "ow" but it didn't work out after a couple of months, and then he and his ex got back together for a couple of years.
This now isn't a one-off when young and foolish; it's another example, only a couple of years ago; and I'm really wondering whether should I be trusting this guy and continuing this relationship. What's to stop him from doing the same to me.

When I told him I'm a bit freaked out by it, and that he seems to cheat/get involved with other people before he finishes relationships (recently as well as in his 20s), he said he had learned from it and he hadn't been involved with anyone when he and his ex finished a couple of years ago.

But I'm still left with a sense of unease/lack of trust. Leopards and all that …
He often goes out with friends etc on nights we're not seeing each other; I don't want to be sat at home, worrying about what he's getting up to. He also has a couple of female friends and is in contact with a couple of exes and I wonder about the potential there too.

(Should also add that I ended two previous relationships (of under a year) because I found out they had cheated on their spouses (well, one was behaviour around alcohol as well as the cheating) so I'd be lowering my standards to stay in this relationship).

If you can’t accept any cheating whatsoever at any point in a partners life, then end it. It will drive you nuts and you’ll keep questioning this man all the time.

For what it’s worth, I’m a bit like him - I’ve cheated in the past and been “young and stupid” but I grew up and realised my behaviour was not ok, and when I ended my last relationship there was no one else involved. I’d be very sad that someone I was dating would judge me for something I did many years ago - that I have now learned from, but if that’s your red line then it is what it is!

That's very sensible advice.

It's hard to end a relationship when you're attached and invested (which can happen even when you're trying to be cautious etc).

It's also true that many people have cheated or close to it, especially when younger. Who knows what the percentage is, it certainly does make you wonder how likely you are to meet someone who hasn't, esp when you're not in your teens or twenties. Then there's the fact that many people would not tell you and you'd not find out any other way.

I don't know why he's been honest - he either wants to be honest or he doesn't think it's that bad or he's just not discrete/suffers from verbal diarrhea. He can definitely be chatty/run on at times (though so can I).

He needs to have individual therapy and then give you a very clear account of why the cheating repeatedly happened in the past, and why it's no longer part of his character now.

Otherwise, run. I say this from experience of similar.

Other bits of his behaviour do make me uncomfortable and I'm not sure how I'd feel.about them if I didn't know about his past cheating.

For example, he's friendly with a young woman (9 or so years younger) through a hobby/sport; he took the sport up as an adult but she's done it since childhood so she was actually his instructor at one point (in a residential centre so everyone gets to know each v well quite intensively).

If she's attending a event related to the hobby in this area, he'll make more effort to attend (he has actually been her team mate in a past event too). I was really uncomfortable about a recent one when he said he'd go along but found all the limited accommodation booked out so he told me she offered him to share her and her sister's tent (!!) He said he didn't fancy it and looked into borrowing his own tent from a relative; but the fact that he seemed to consider it, and it wasn't that he's in a relationship that was his first consideration. I asked him what he thought would be said if people I know (I know him through the hobby) saw him staying in/ emerging from their tent.

He said he hasn't really considered sharing their tent, she only offered out of politeness, she's in a relationship herself and if people wanted to be dirty minded, that was up to them.

There's been another incident when his ex (the one he was married to for a couple of years) was visiting near his home town, asked to meet up for a coffee - to which he agreed - but then said if it was after his work, there would he no more public transport put to the rural area she was staying in and suggested he could put her up for the night. He said no and told her he only has one spare room and it's full of stuff due to renovations .. but didn't say it would be inappropriate because he's in a relationship (!)

Again, he seems to have a lack of boundaries and normal/appropriate behaviour. Fitted alongside what i know about his past cheating, it all makes me uncomfortable.

Hmmm the examples you’ve given in your most recent post are quite innocuous tbh. He didn’t stay in their tent, she probably was only offering out of politeness - besides, are you suggesting she would have a threesome or suchlike with her sister?! That’s...a bit of a reach. Re: the ex, why is it important that he beat his chest and said “IM IN A RELATIONSHIP” - he didn’t let her stay over, that’s what counts.

It just really sounds like you don’t trust this man at all, and your version of boundaries is very different to his, and perhaps you are just incompatible.

I stand by my suggestion to end it. Trust is a choice, either you trust him or you don’t.

It's a tricky one. He's told you so you don't trust him. If he hadn't told you would you trust him more? He'd be the same person & had done the same things. My view of trust is that it is you that it affects. You can choose to trust or not. It doesn't really change his behaviour. But you know to be alert. My advice would be to free yourself from it - until he gives you cause. If something else has alerted your spidey senses then address that.

The next dp could have cheated/be a cheater but not tell you.

@wimhoffbreather

Hmmm the examples you’ve given in your most recent post are quite innocuous tbh. He didn’t stay in their tent, she probably was only offering out of politeness - besides, are you suggesting she would have a threesome or suchlike with her sister?! That’s...a bit of a reach. Re: the ex, why is it important that he beat his chest and said “IM IN A RELATIONSHIP” - he didn’t let her stay over, that’s what counts.

It just really sounds like you don’t trust this man at all, and your version of boundaries is very different to his, and perhaps you are just incompatible.

I stand by my suggestion to end it. Trust is a choice, either you trust him or you don’t.

Fair points.

I suppose I just thought about what my kids (it's through them doing the same sport/hobby that I met him) would think, a nd what their mates would say (you know what teenagers are like) if they saw my partner staying in a young woman (well two young women)'s tent at that event. It also makes me a bit uncomfortable; would you like your mid thirties husband/partner sharing a tent with two young women in their twenties? Trying to change efc. People talk, whether we like it or not. And not many people would see a mid thirties guy being "friends" with a twenty something young woman and just think "cool, they're mates, nice".

Re the ex, yes - he did say he felt uncomfortable but just said the (truthful) thing about the spare room because he didn't want to get into it. I feel though it leaves the door open to her asking again, thinking it's just the renovations that are the issue

I think you and I must perceive things very differently, because I do and always have had friends of different genders at different ages through work and hobbies, and I wouldn’t think to gossip about mixed gender tent sharing. Nor would most people I know. But we are all different.

Re: his ex, so what if she does ask again? He will likely just find another excuse to fob her off if he doesn’t want her to stay.

Let him go OP. There are other men out there who will share your views on the issues you’ve discussed here. He doesn’t sound aligned with your way of thinking, which down the line will be stressful for you both to continue.

Yes we do seem to have different boundaries; I also know that in the past he's stayed with a friend's girlfriend/fiancée a couple of times while travelling through a major city they lived in (the couple lived there together but his friend was working away for a few months).

I found it weird that he stayed there, with his friend's partner (whom he's only met a couple of times before when staying there with both) while his friend was overseas .. most people I know would find it weird/inappropriate.

@DontInjectBleach

It's a tricky one. He's told you so you don't trust him. If he hadn't told you would you trust him more? He'd be the same person & had done the same things. My view of trust is that it is you that it affects. You can choose to trust or not. It doesn't really change his behaviour. But you know to be alert. My advice would be to free yourself from it - until he gives you cause. If something else has alerted your spidey senses then address that.

The next dp could have cheated/be a cheater but not tell you.

I suppose if he hadn't told me and I'd found out through some other source, the trust issue would be worse.

I can't help feeling he told me because he doesn't actually think it's bad, which says a lot.

Or he's just loose lipped, or both.

Again, I don’t think it’s weird to stay with a friends partner if you are visiting their city for work or whatever. If they were sharing a room or something then yes, that’s very inappropriate, but if he’s staying in the spare room or on the couch - I don’t see the big deal? To me that’s just a favour to a friend.

But really I think the important thing is that YOU find his actions inappropriate. It shouldn’t matter that I others may or may not think the same.

What’s important here is your feelings - you don’t have to justify them or seek consensus, you feel as you feel. For this reason I don’t think you are compatible with this man. What does he say when you discuss these issues with him?

He says he finished with his ex with no-one else involved.

He says his behaviour to his ex "wife" was shitty but he didn't seem particularly regretful or ashamed tbh. As I said he seemed to concentrate on the humour/farce in that main incident, before I pulled him up in it.

He hasn't said much about his emotional affair/flirtation in his last relationship; just that he was unsettled and uncommitted in the relationship for various reasons (his ex had an issue with alcohol) and focused on a woman he met and liked through the same sport/hobby above. It seemed to be about his ex/the relationship, rather than him taking responsibility for pursuing an emotional affair and then leaving when it reached a certain point (instead of just ending his relationship).

He's aware I have trust issues with him and has said a couple of times that there can't really be a relationship without trust and we'll end up finished if I can't settle my head as such. He has said that in the past that he's in love with me and he's not interested in meeting anyone else. Recently I've felt he's not as invested though.

I think around a year in is the time when you have a gut feeling about whether it's a viable long term relationship and it sounds like for a few reasons this one just isn't a goer.

Someone who has a history of cheating isn't a great match for someone who has trust issues - not because they're terrible people who will do it again necessarily, but because their past behaviour triggers the trust issues of the other person. Just not compatible long term, especially as you feel he's been pulling away recently.

Ultimately trust has to come from you. It's not something you can force. If you don't fully trust him for whatever reason it's neither fair on you on him.

And whether you should trust is unknowable, isn't it? There's no way of actually knowing whether he'll cheat on you. I could give you anecdotes of reformed cheaters who never looked at another woman when they met someone they actually loved. I could also give you anecdotes of cheaters who never reformed!

FWIW being blase about cheating would give me pause. But being honest would be a good sign. Two sides of the same coin.

All the examples of "inappropriate" behaviour are completely innocuous to me. Fixating on what other people think and gossip about isn't very reasonable of you, actually.

Op have you thought that maybe he's telling you about the times he's had 'opportunities' eh tent sharing but turned it down is because he's trying to get you to trust him?

Tricky, if I was with someone who made it known they didn't trust me, I can't lie, it would put me off them, which may well be now, what you are finding with him.
I'm currently seeing a loose-lipped man who's probably overshared about his player-style youth, so I kind of get how you feel ( lol, my guy was far worse than anything your fella has done). However, he says he's not like that now, and luckily for him I treat as I find. So I take him at his word, while also bearing things in mind slightly, until there's just cause for concern - and I don't think any situation you have mentioned should be a concern ( you are being a bit hypersensitive because of your past experience here).
I suppose I'm more relaxed about it because I've not been traumatized by past infidelity, but also, I happen to think he'd be hard pushed to get better than me, so he'd be mad to go elsewhere.
At the end of the day, anyone can cheat whether there is previous form or not, it's far better to assume someone isn't going to and work from there. You do seem a bit preoccupied by what things look like to others. I can actually see the funny side of your BF's farcical situation, and as it's in the past it's got no bearing on you.
I'd wonder though if really, although not much age gap, you seem to be at different life stages. Would you really want to start again having DC's when you have teenagers? I'd never advise doing it outside of protection of marriage, so unless that is on the cards soon, I think you'd feel pushed to do it and try for DC before your relationship has had time to settle down ( it doesn't sound stable enough yet by a long chalk). I doubt you are in the mindset to risk getting pregnant and potentially being left holding the baby, think about that, you need to feel more secure with someone to do all that, and that is not where your mind is at.

Fixating on what other people think and gossip about isn't very reasonable of you, actually.

Aside from maintaining that most people wouldn't actually as cool with their partner sharing a small tent with one or two young women (or the reverse) as they might state on here (especially when not as part of an organised group activity) ... You do have to think about your kids. Teenage boys are brutal to each other and can be very vulgar. I have heard enough to know that that scenario would have resulted in the boys that participate in the sport (who quickly form into competitive, rough housing, "bantering" gangs who are almost as bad to each other within them as to their rivals) doing a lot of sneering, laughing, and teasing along the lines of "isn't that your ma's boyfriend coming out of - name if young female -'s tent?! Fk he gets around, doesn't he? Does he do week about with her and your ma? Her sister's in there too, maybe it's a threesome; he's got some game, can you get tips off him for us? Oh maybe just listen at the door when they're shagging next and find out that way, or is your ma loud; maybe you don't need to listen at the door ...." Etc etc. On and on. I've heard that and worse. It's standard operating procedure. They would absolutely love ammunition like that to throw at them, especially if they're totting up wins in the event. I suppose you could say if it weren't that, it would be something else; but you should at least not supply them with juicy/ready made ammunition.

The thing is, he's already had an emotional affair/flirtation with a member of the local club; the ow he ended his relationship to get involved with a few years back. It's a small, insular, fairly conservative area of the world here, everyone knows everyone, people talk, I know many take a poor view of infidelity (even in non married people) and you can be sure people noted that he was flirting with and seemed keen on the ow (who has since left the club due to work relocation) while they knew he had a girlfriend, and then he started seeing the ow .. they can guess he overlapped/acted inappropriately and he probably has a bit of a rep. So his interaction with his younger female friend would be even less likely to be viewed innocently. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to consider these things. It seems naive or wilfully obtuse not to; maybe he's not been totally upfront but he seems to have given his only reason for not accepting the offer to share their tent as being space, and her only being polite etc. In any case they pulled out if the event and he decided not to bother going, but it makes you wonder what else could crop up and how his judgement would be.

By the way I appreciate every poster's viewpoints and am taking them onboard (just in case I give the impression I'm not).

Geez, your mind is in overdrive, I can't see this relationship having legs tbh. You are missing the point by focusing on the possible scenarios of what teenagers would of made of it - the point being, based on what he said himself, that it never was going to happen. It didn't happen, however, you are talking about it as though it happened. If you can't get over possible scenarios that potentially could occur, when they haven't happened, I don't hold much hope. If you find yourself bringing up stuff like this to your BF, about things that haven't actually gone down that way, he will get fed up of you.

Why is it called having 'trust issues'? It makes it sound like you generally have a problem with trusting in general.

The fact is, you don't trust him because his questionable past makes you uncomfortable. You've cited plenty of examples, and it doesn't matter whether anybody else think they are signs that he is untrustworthy or not.

You are very uncomfortable with him, and for some reason you are minimising this. It doesn't matter whether he really is untrustworthy, or if there's a fault with your perception; something about him is setting off alarm bells.

His past won't change, so I doubt you will start to trust him.

*repetition of 'general', sorry.

@IndieTara

Op have you thought that maybe he's telling you about the times he's had 'opportunities' eh tent sharing but turned it down is because he's trying to get you to trust him?

It's a fair theory, but I don't get that impression.

He's quite chatty one on one and I think.he just talks about whatever's on his mind/whatever he's doing. On that occasion he mentioned his female friend's offer in the context of talking about borrowing his brother's tent and the booked out accommodation for the event.

*repetition of 'general', sorry.

That's quite alright .

Yes, I think threre are trust issues which are based on nothing that person has done (in previous relationships or yours) ... And then there are trust issues which are based on things the person has done in past relationships or yours. The latter is obviously much more relevant, but if someone has a pattern of past behaviour .... The phrase "past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour" or whatever the exact phrase is, does seem pertinent.

As someone pointed out above, the person could have changed and not act that way again .. or they might just revert to (previous) form.

I agree that if you can't trust them,you damage the relationship to the point where it may well collapse anyway.

I actually think you're reading a lot more into things here than you've really got 'just cause' to, to be honest.

He told you he wouldn't have slept in the tent and he didn't sleep in the tent. He was asked, he declined. His ex asked to stay over and he also declined. In both these situations, I don't see why he would need to specifically point out that he's 'in a relationship' as these could be perfectly innocent situations and him saying 'no! I am in a relationship and that would be inappropriate' would frankly make him look like a complete twat who was a bit assumptive and up himself

With regards to his past, I honestly don't think those things are that terrible and I think if you delved into a lot of people's pasts you would see similar things. I personally cheated on various boyfriends in my teens and 20's but now in my 40's and in a LTR I wouldn't dream of doing it, because I've learnt from my mistakes and understand trust and respect.

It sounds like you're very much judging him on his past and using it to try and find something (anything) to prove he's still the same now, but the examples don't really back this up. So either there is more to it, a spidey sense of cheating / untrustworthy behaviour which is triggering you, or else you may need to consider ending things as the paranoia is just going to keep eating away at you and create a rift in the relationship anyway. I'd suggest you should at least have a proper cards on the table talk with him .