Does it tend to be the woman who pushes for marriage?

[Sadlonely67]

I’m at the age where my friends are starting to become engaged and married in heterosexual relationships. Mostly it seems it’s been my female friends who have brought up marriage and getting engaged, and their male partners tend to just go along with it, sometimes thanks to some gentle prodding. Does it tend to be like this?

Of my friends who are married I think it’s pretty even and equal; though obviously you never fully know the dynamics of anyone else’s relationships. Generally though, I think women are more inclined to see marriage as the ultimate destination of a wedding and more likely to see it as a symbol of “he chose me! He wants me forever!” than men are, simply because men as a group aren’t socialised to see marriage as quite the achievement that women are.

How old are you all, generally?

I'm 30 and got married this year... it was DH that bought it up first to see if I would want to, then we talked about when in broad terms, and he surprised me with a lovely proposal a while later. We were pretty equal in the wedding planning.

I got married when I was 19. I was pregnant and a friend had just got married and me and DH were discussing it , I cannot remember exactly how it came up but he said I do want to get married, lets go a book a wedding, so off we went and sorted it out! Great proposal eh???

Usually it's the female and I always have under why as marriage is a terrible deal for women (usually).

In our case I think we both really wanted it and the things cooled down. Then I didn't really see the point but one day woke up feeling I really needed to do it. So set a date and we're marrying next April. Over the past 6-7 months he's done a 180 and he seems just as excited as I am.

Fressia123 Congrats

I think there's a difference between getting married and having a wedding. The former is about protecting both parties and legally tying them together, and certainly makes sense where one of the couple could be at a financial disadvantage if they were to split up later on. The latter is about having a party.

Not in my experience. It's only on Mn that I've come across women desperate to marry, often to men they've already had children with, and often economically disempowered to the extent that it seems to have seeped into their self-esteem, so that they view marriage as somehow in the man's gift. But it comes up on here so often I'm forced to recognise that some women still, in 2020, regard marriage as something men are empowered to dangle in front of women, even women they've been with for years and had children with -- because they have so little power in their lives they seem to fetishise the proposal and wedding, rather than regard marriage as a legal contract between two equals...

I find it enormously revelatory and depressing. I don't see that in my real life at all. DH was far keener on both marriage and children than I was, and I see similar situations with my closest female friends. I think one difference is that none of us regarded marriage as some kind of achievement, we all did it a bit older (I was 39) if we did it at all, many were ambivalent about children, and we're all pretty career-minded.

The one woman I know of who gave her longterm boyfriend an ultimatum about marriage, and another about having children, was dealing with a spectacularly passive man, who'd been tootling along for almost nine years in an LDR, just seeing her at weekends and refusing to live with her until they got married and then not proposing, because any form of action was too stressful to cope with. I don't blame her in a way, though I think she should also have foreseen that his passivity would extended to family life, and they're divorced now.

For me, it was making sure we were on the same page and wanted the same thing. Not wanting to force him to do something he didn’t want to do. So I told him that I think 5 years is long enough for a guy to know if he’s ready. I wanted to get married and have children so if he definitely didn’t want that, we should part ways so we could find what we wanted. I would be 33, still young enough to meet someone else. It wasn’t an ultimatum, just a deadline in my own mind which I mentioned in passing to him.

Yes, generally. In fact an awful lot of men don't want any of it. They just want a relationship.

Some might say, what benefit does marriage bring? It's incredibly expensive, is very difficult to even think about planning this year or next

It’s a legal contact which protects the person who does more unpaid work and less paid work and who earns less. And any children. It also gives tax advantages .

And it’s the cheapest legal contract you will ever get at about £120.

My DP has consistently said he would like us to get married. I was not keen at first (marriage no 1 did not go well, for either of us!) but now we're a bit older, we've been together for quite a while and I feel like I am up for it. And yesterday he casually asked me if I know my ring size 😁

My boyfriend and his two friends didn't believe me when I told them that fertility declines in your thirties. I've had to show him quite a few articles because it's something he keeps saying we can wait two years for. They don't understand the time pressure on women.

I would agree that women tend to raise it first IME .

I remember telling my now DH that we should take a break and have some space to think, as he wasn't quite on the same page as me timewise.
I was very prepared to let the relationship go and this was not an ultimatum at all....but he was quite distressed by my suggestion and I think he knew deep down, that would likely be the end of our relationship.

Had to give an ultimatum to my then boyfriend , if he didn't marry me I wouldn't have children with him.

Once we were married he said that he wished we had done it sooner 🤦‍♀️

For me, it's been then men as I'm the commitmentphobe. But now I'm interested in settling down, men not so much...C'est la vie

My exh needed encouragement

My now DH asked me to marry him within a few days of knowing each other

I made him wait a few years before he asked me officially again

He loves sentiment

I think it will be skewed towards women pushing where there is pushing to be done. Also think big weddings are definitely driven more by women. I think most me would be happy with a reception in the local pub with a Steak and Ale pie as the wedding breakfast.

We discussed marriage when we got together as we were both divorcees and were not going to have children together. Neither of us wanted to marry again, both happy with that decision.

3 years later he asked me to marry him, said he couldn't imagine not being married to me. No flowers or fancy setting, just us and an expression of his desire. Best decision we've made i think

I think there is an element of women feeling the timescales a bit more than men, particularly if they are looking at having children and want to be married first. However I think that many men also arrive at a point where they want to marry, it's just that they don't have the same pressure of biology on them so often the women reach the point first iyswim?

I don’t think it’s so much about a big wedding and it think it’s unfair to trivialise it as silly girls want pretty frocks whereas big strong men are sensible and above all that.

I think it’s because men can get what they want ( sex on tap, a free housekeeper and someone to raise their children ) without marriage, as many women are happy to provide these on the vague hope that marriage might happen some time in the future. If he feels like it/ if he can get over his parents divorce / his cheating ex / his commitment issues/ once he gets a promotion .

Whereas women can only get the legal protections for them and their children with marriage.

If women didn’t have sex, children or provide domestic servicing without marriage then things would completely reverse and men would be desperate to get married.

I’m not saying that women should do this BTW. But if marriage is important to them it’s not a good strategy to have kids first / take maternity leave / go part time as it completely weakens their negotiating position.

As a PP said, MN seems full of women who have given up their careers, earning potential and pensions and made themselves extremely economically vulnerable for men who won’t even give up a night in the pub and have no intention of every marrying them. It’s sad to see these women begging for “ a ring “ when it’s clear their feckless and selfish partners don't give a fuck about them and their kids security.

And before someone points this out - no I am not talking about all men ever in the history of the planet. I am generalising about some trends I see here on MN and no of course it doesn’t apply to everyone. Women who are high earners or whose partner is the SAHP are much better off (financially) not being married.

Funnily enough, all the men I know who are SAHP are all married. And they all get a day off every weekend as well, while their wives look after the kids.

Marriage is better financially than partnership if you are the woman or poorer partner.
And if you are the SAHP (which is of course usually the woman and usually the poorer partner).

I already knew this before I was on MN but what I didn't know was that if you already have DCs then marriage is not necessarily better for a second relationship with no DCs - not being married protects your inheritance from the new DP and their family.

But for some women (my case for example) marriage weakens their financial position. I'm really just doing because of purely romantic reasons.

@Fressia123

But for some women (my case for example) marriage weakens their financial position. I'm really just doing because of purely romantic reasons.

Well, exactly -- your economic strength is part of the reason why you're not on here posting identical 'Will he propose?' and 'I saw a small jewellery box in the attic!' posts on a monthly basis about a man who controls the finances in your household, and with whom you've had three children and become a SAHM because 'he earns more than I do'. You can afford to make heart decisions because you're not economically dependent on the man (or woman) you're marrying.

There is likely research on it, but I think there are far more factors involved than just someone's sex.

Similar with age and sexuality, yeah those'll be parts of it, but it'll impacted by one's social circle, expectations in the family and community, personal philosophy on life, resources, financial status of those involved as already mentioned and dozens of other things.

I married at 18 - no flowery proposal, it came up while we were watching TV, he was keen and I took a day to think on it. No big fat wedding - we eloped with 3 witnesses a few months after I agreed and spent maybe £200 on the whole thing. Lovely wedding, only thing I'd have changed was more comfortable shoes.

He's generally keener on these things than I am - marriage kids, and other big life choices - but we're both open to being convinced and once I am or I convince him on something like that, we tend to go for it. True in our teens and still true in our thirties. I know people who've been engaged for years or said last baby 1-2 kids ago, and it works (or not) for them. I don't generally ask about why they've made those choices & have learned that both parts of a couple can say very different things about how and why things are (and say different things to different people) so it's not always possible to tell who is pushing for what.

I only have one friend who pushed for marriage - and he cheated and left her 6 months before the wedding because he never really wanted to marry her in the first place. They're both now (I assume) happily married to other people.

I guess it also depends on age and life goals. DH and I always knew we want to get married and have kids one day. I was late 20s to early 30s and he was late 30s to early 40s. Because we knew we were on the same page of what we wanted from life long term, there was never a question of either of us pushing as we both knew we want to get married - we just spent three years in a relationship first solidifying our relationship before he proposed.

But for a couple in mid 20s who have much more time ahead of them, I knew of a few couples when I was younger where the woman wanted marriage but the guy felt they were too young.